[Pharmaboy]

As we all try to extract as much as possible, we can get somewhat overly hardcore.

As for my setup. My ISP has fiber upto my house. from that point it's feeds a cable modem. Note I have 2 external IP's on my modem. I have 2 routers:

#1 for high traffic duties for my household (netflix, tablets/smartphones, desktop, IP cameras etc). This cable modem/router has it's wifi deactivated and I use 3 Ubiquiti Unifi LR access point units.

#2 I have a dedicated router specifically for my 2 channel and apple 4k tv player. This is where I use my cascaded Silent Angel n8 audiofile grade ethernet switches and Forester LPS. Wifi from my close proximity dedicated router is used for my Audirvana 3.5 wifi to control Tidal feed / DLNA setup.

I'm familiar with all of this packet discussion. If you have ever auditioned such "audiofile grade" ethernet switches USING the supplied "medical grade" switching power supply wall warts. Disclaimer, such improvements is not on par with the Re-clocking DDC. However, with such ethernet switches will hear a more analog refined, relaxed sound quality. This is easily repeatable time and time again using the ABX blind fold listening "test". Adding the LPS further changed the SQ. I would advise people to spend their budget on the best components first but retain the idea of Reclocking DDC on the top of the list. The Ethernet switch is still an upstream source in my philosophy of "clean in = clean out". I am putting serious efforts not to inject "Garbage in = Garbage out". I feed my Silent Angel Z1 music server with treated ethernet source. I will say would have difficulty dumping my Mutec setup or cascaded SA N8 Ethernet switches.

It is common fact that powerline ethernet adapters have short life. Majority of the main players in such product run hot and die within a year++. I am actually using a Moca system that uses existing COAX lines for my tv cable. That is AWESOME in throughput and decent as it does not destroy gamers in latency. My kids has an entire entertainment recreation room downstairs fully equipped with hardwire (via MOCA adapter) as well as Unifi access point/wifi. All feeds the gaming rigs, home theater setup, netflix etc etc.

How nice (and unexpected) to run into another MOCA user. I ended up getting my MOCA units when I realized there was absolutely no way to get ethernet cable from the router all the way to the other side of the house (~60 ft away w/many internal barriers) to get hardwired signal to my 77" LG 4K OLED.

But there already were a couple long cable TV/coax wires spanning the entire house--so I used the MOCA boxes to repurpose one of those wires for conveying high bitrate internet signal to the TV. It worked like a charm from day-1 and not 1 hiccup in 2+ years.

And believe me, this OLED TV would show me very clearly & quickly if anything was wrong w/incoming signal...

 

[PopZeus]

I just bought a Matrix Audio X-SPDIF 2 ... it's a reclocker + SPDIF converter. I read many good things about it (and other reclocking DDCs) and couldn't find one used, so bought it from Arthur @power Holdings. He's a great guy from whom I bought my Lake People G109-A some years ago (he's the U.S. distributor for Violectric & Lake People). He also helped me replace the volume pot's board on my V281.

Denafrips' DDCs are getting a lot of positive talk on another thread here. Their least expensive reclocking DDC is the Iris, which cost ~50% more than the Matrix. From what I can tell, Alvin is another great guy. But I decided to go with the somewhat cheaper, also well-reviewed Matrix unit.

I've used SPDIF converters for years & greatly prefer the sound of the coax input on every DAC I've had here (my really fine-sounding Oyaide DR-510 silver coax cable sealed the deal...great sound). Now I'll find out if reclocking adds much--and if so, how much.

Yeah, I was checking out the Iris but it was just too much for me to spend without knowing how it would sound. Honestly, I had no idea that there were so many DDC options, but they also can help fix chip DACs as well so I guess I shouldn't be too surprised. Anyways, I figure if I like what the F1 does for my desktop rig, then I can at least properly level-set my expectations with a better DDC down the road. I'm really trying to keep my desktop clutter down... and it's not working lol

 

[AlanU]

I was wondering Alan, since the Mutec can do such marvelous results with a sabre crappy dac as you said, have you tested it with say a RME delta sigma, or singxer delta sigma expensive dac, or schiit top of the line... just wondering what was the result. Maybe delta sigma can also sound better with a reclocker ddc.

UPDATE: About the Ares, I also do notice, with such voicing, boy, I can play the speakers way way louder than before. This is from day one, big time difference. With the topping, specially when closer to the speaker, ufff, can't put it loud more than one song. With the Ares 2 voicing, it asks for louder and it doesn't hurt the ear. This is a very big difference between the two, and very easy to notice it. On the other hand, for say listening to spoken word, radio, talk show, podcasts, at low level listening, the topping will be clearer I think, more legible...

I am a believer that non reclocking dacs will benefit by a very large margin. For the higher end dacs with input reclocking cct's those will sound very good without a re-clocking ddc. HOWEVER, with my personal ears I'll take reclocking regarldess of what dac I audition/own. There's a very strong following for the R2R Aqua dacs and you WILL sonically hear a difference feeding a DDC to a $10,000 + DAC.

I'm currently listening to Stefano Battaglia Trio - The River of Anyder. Feeding my cascaded Mutec MC-3+ USB DDC (x2) the wrap around sound stage, depth, layers and insane holographic image is coming from my cheap on board DAC in my Parasound solid state P6 pre-amp. Using Audirvana Studio is like a BOOST in analog bliss. I cannot get over how Audirvana studio destroys my Audirvana 3.5 (lifetime License).

Using Audirvana studio I am finding that deactivating the "upsampling" provides the best holographic image.

Lolito, see if you can audition a decent power cord. I've tested some $$$$$ power cords but sometimes you can get some serious performance out of DIY cords. I am currently running a Gotham 85055. I terminate one end with a cryoed gold plated plug and the IEC is rhodium plated. Rather meaty at 10awg with incredible shielding. It was rather a fun hybrid termination slap together diy but it held its own against a Tchernov Reference power cord $$$$. DIY gotham cord is from Switzerland and is a nice cord for the money. This inexpensive diy has replaced my Furutech S55N and S032 power cords $$. You do NOT have to spend a lot of money sometimes.

 

[simon740]

@Lolito I can trade my RME Adi-2 dac for your Ares II
If you wanna a detailed sound without fatigue

 

[Lolito]

I bought new 0.5m power cords for my amp and 2 dacs. Less than 5€ each, but I am opened to test different power cables after say 10 years. So in 2031, if i am still alive i would give a try to different cables, but these are new.

 

[Lolito]

@Lolito I can trade my RME Adi-2 dac for your Ares II
If you wanna a detailed sound without fatigue

Rme will not sound better than a decent topping, just more features and eq and display, but same kind of sound.

 

[simon740]

Rme will not sound better than a decent topping, just more features and eq and display, but same kind of sound.

Ohhh... you are wrong
And I just kidding about trade in..
With all respect, I think the problem is your headphones and the speakers.
The Ares II is very very good DAC. I have Topping D30, and this is MEH..

regards,
Simon

 

[simon740]

I bought new 0.5m power cords for my amp and 2 dacs. Less than 5€ each, but I am opened to test different power cables after say 10 years. So in 2031, if i am still alive i would give a try to different cables, but these are new.

You are funny

 

[Lolito]

Ohhh... you are wrong
And I just kidding about trade in..
With all respect, I think the problem is your headphones and the speakers.
The Ares II is very very good DAC. I have Topping D30 too, and this is MEH..

regards,
Simon

My topping is E30, not D30. Problem is i am not sick/crazy enough yet. But give a couple years, i will be crazy like you and alanu, cascading crap, LOL.

 

[simon740]

My topping is E30, not D30. Problem is i am not sick/crazy enough yet. But give a couple years, i will be crazy like you and alanu, cascading crap, LOL.

You don’t have to be crazy/sick. Just choose wisely. Synergy is very important.

regards,
Simon

 

[Lolito]

Of course, of course. Yes.

 

[AlanU]

How nice (and unexpected) to run into another MOCA user. I ended up getting my MOCA units when I realized there was absolutely no way to get ethernet cable from the router all the way to the other side of the house (~60 ft away w/many internal barriers) to get hardwired signal to my 77" LG 4K OLED.

But there already were a couple long cable TV/coax wires spanning the entire house--so I used the MOCA boxes to repurpose one of those wires for conveying high bitrate internet signal to the TV. It worked like a charm from day-1 and not 1 hiccup in 2+ years.

And believe me, this OLED TV would show me very clearly & quickly if anything was wrong w/incoming signal...

The coax / ethernet adapter is quite impressive. The powerline Dlink I owned always ran incredibly hot an it shorted out my ethernet line. It literally killed my internet service to my entire house!!!!!!! As I removed the defective unit my ISP service went back online.

The MOCA adapter has been flawless and the throughput is stable and solid. Also it's substantially faster than the mediocre performance of the Ethernet powerline adapters.

When it comes to wifi, I find the access points made by Ubiquiti to be top notch. They are rated enterprise grade for consumer products. However I am still finding that wifi does degrade my 2channel setup for some reason.

 

[AlanU]

My topping is E30, not D30. Problem is i am not sick/crazy enough yet. But give a couple years, i will be crazy like you and alanu, cascading crap, LOL.

In due time you can accumulate gear to your preference.

I took a serious leap of faith in purchasing my first audiograde/ethernet switch. I had full refund guarantee and I was ready to take advantage of such "audition" and return the "fake advertisement".............. Let's just say I immediately purchased a 2nd unit and Linear power supply. ABX blind fold (non verbal too) test was 100% conclusive that it made a noticeable difference. I did not even know 1 person that owned such a "so called gimmick". People have fed "normal" ethernet switches with linear power supplies and did not get the same performance results.

My other blind leap of faith was also the first re-clocking DDC. Local dealer handed me a brand new box. Told me to test it out. I immediately called back and said I'm keeping it!!!!!!! This was not a matter of crazy....it was a shocking difference. I was using a Topping D10()s) as a regular ddc. There is some serious reviews of the Topping D10(s) being an amazing usb to spdif (DDC) unit. The difference from that 100+ dollar "regular ddc/dac" to the Mutec's is a huge difference in $$$$$. The difference between D10s to MC-3+USB is like night and day using the identical audio gear/speakers. The cost of the spendy Mutec equated to a level of buying a new higher tier DAC, Pre-amp, amp etc etc. Collectively the SQ was not subtle, in fact it was more like jumping to decent to higher up the chain / flagship.

I would love to compare a Mutec/Ares II vs a new Venus ii DAC with no external re-clocker. This is where personal preference and performance can get "strange". The strange impression I am getting is that once a signal is reclocked. It's open game in sonic performance between cheaper to $$$$$ flagship DACS. The big bottleneck with cheaper dacs is the cost savings of power supply and added engineering / r&d in the internal layout. However this is were I am finding cheaper dacs with an excellent reclocking DDC will be almost like a jump, shoulder to shoulder in SQ performance to a much more expensive dac. Add an external re-clocker to a venus ii, should again improve the sonics as it is redundant in reclocking.

Not a matter of justification of money expenditure. I'd honestly suggest people who own an ARES II to buy a re-clocker DDC before moving up the chain in $$$ dacs. I have yet to hear anyone complain of the limitation of 24/192 using coax. Seems the Denafrips DDC units are getting a bad wrap on the performance of the I2S port.

I literally seldom used my Sabre 9018 internal/onboard dac that lives in my modest Parasound p6 pre-amp. Feeding this onboard DAC has completely transformed the sound to a level where I genuinely feel would easily compete with your standard Topping D90 units or better. Yes.......... it went from edgy non musical average "cheap" dac sound to a big change in layers and texture with meat. Simultaneously I feed my Space tech labs tube, Burson DA-160 and Parasound onboard dac. Some may comment that the Burson is old and cheap and the onboard parasound dac is a "feebie". Yes indeed however as far as musical enjoyment it destroys my previous mytek liberty and Brooklyn+ (now gone). My Space tech labs setup I have a modded 1940's Western Electric rectifier power supply setup and Mullard EL32 buffers on the DAC. So far that setup is untouchable in SQ.....even my audiofile friends chuckle in the performance of this locally made dac/super rectifier setup (dac/ external power supply setup).

Again, it's not always about the money expenditure ( to a degree). Once you go out of your way in "endgame" source. Anything you ever buy in the future will completely max out in sonic performance. This is where 2 identical rooms with identical gear, with the exception of one using a reclocking DDC. The cleansed source from the re-clocker will have a considerable higher end refinement that the other dac cannot achieve.

This is just awareness. In due time I suggest to action this new found knowldege!!

 

[Lolito]

My brain is almost burnt in already, almost, not yet 100%, but almost, OMG ME VIA MATA!!!!!!!!



This crap sounds so good. Who would have thought that you have to pay more, in order to have a worse sound. A 1996 sound. Amazing, but it makes all the sense. It's like designers clothing, the worse it looks the more expensive it costs. But then again, who would not pay to go back to 1996? Oh boy

Who would want the detail when you can have the flow. the real sound, not the square grid bits of pieces of pppi ppii piii 01000011100001000000000001000

 

[Lolito]

In due time you can accumulate gear to your preference.

I took a serious leap of faith in purchasing my first audiograde/ethernet switch. I had full refund guarantee and I was ready to take advantage of such "audition" and return the "fake advertisement".............. Let's just say I immediately purchased a 2nd unit and Linear power supply. ABX blind fold (non verbal too) test was 100% conclusive that it made a noticeable difference. I did not even know 1 person that owned such a "so called gimmick". People have fed "normal" ethernet switches with linear power supplies and did not get the same performance results.

My other blind leap of faith was also the first re-clocking DDC. Local dealer handed me a brand new box. Told me to test it out. I immediately called back and said I'm keeping it!!!!!!! This was not a matter of crazy....it was a shocking difference. I was using a Topping D10()s) as a regular ddc. There is some serious reviews of the Topping D10(s) being an amazing usb to spdif (DDC) unit. The difference from that 100+ dollar "regular ddc/dac" to the Mutec's is a huge difference in $$$$$. The difference between D10s to MC-3+USB is like night and day using the identical audio gear/speakers. The cost of the spendy Mutec equated to a level of buying a new higher tier DAC, Pre-amp, amp etc etc. Collectively the SQ was not subtle, in fact it was more like jumping to decent to higher up the chain / flagship.

I would love to compare a Mutec/Ares II vs a new Venus ii DAC with no external re-clocker. This is where personal preference and performance can get "strange". The strange impression I am getting is that once a signal is reclocked. It's open game in sonic performance between cheaper to $$$$$ flagship DACS. The big bottleneck with cheaper dacs is the cost savings of power supply and added engineering / r&d in the internal layout. However this is were I am finding cheaper dacs with an excellent reclocking DDC will be almost like a jump, shoulder to shoulder in SQ performance to a much more expensive dac. Add an external re-clocker to a venus ii, should again improve the sonics as it is redundant in reclocking.

Not a matter of justification of money expenditure. I'd honestly suggest people who own an ARES II to buy a re-clocker DDC before moving up the chain in $$$ dacs. I have yet to hear anyone complain of the limitation of 24/192 using coax. Seems the Denafrips DDC units are getting a bad wrap on the performance of the I2S port.

I literally seldom used my Sabre 9018 internal/onboard dac that lives in my modest Parasound p6 pre-amp. Feeding this onboard DAC has completely transformed the sound to a level where I genuinely feel would easily compete with your standard Topping D90 units or better. Yes.......... it went from edgy non musical average "cheap" dac sound to a big change in layers and texture with meat. Simultaneously I feed my Space tech labs tube, Burson DA-160 and Parasound onboard dac. Some may comment that the Burson is old and cheap and the onboard parasound dac is a "feebie". Yes indeed however as far as musical enjoyment it destroys my previous mytek liberty and Brooklyn+ (now gone). My Space tech labs setup I have a modded 1940's Western Electric rectifier power supply setup and Mullard EL32 buffers on the DAC. So far that setup is untouchable in SQ.....even my audiofile friends chuckle in the performance of this locally made dac/super rectifier setup (dac/ external power supply setup).

Again, it's not always about the money expenditure ( to a degree). Once you go out of your way in "endgame" source. Anything you ever buy in the future will completely max out in sonic performance. This is where 2 identical rooms with identical gear, with the exception of one using a reclocking DDC. The cleansed source from the re-clocker will have a considerable higher end refinement that the other dac cannot achieve.

This is just awareness. In due time I suggest to action this new found knowldege!!

Certainly, the test first then buy option is always a safe bet. I just now wonder, why would I want a cleaner signal inside the ares, just wondering. I payed to have a more analog like signal, more vinyl like, I paid for that, and now I am supposed to want to pay more, to try to make that signal more clean, more pure, more precise? I really feel like USB implementation in DACS has a long way to go still.

I can get a Singxer F1 locally, from official reseller same price, can return it. Would not buy now of course, maybe september or christmas or when ever, and I can return it. Question is, will it really make a difference?

Will do first a decent USB2.0 hub with separate power, and maybe the poor man ddc already mentioned. Is there a thread already for that thing? Cheers.