SunByrne
500+ Head-Fier
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2003
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- 106
Quote:
Upon what basis are you making the judgement that I haven't tried it? I never said whether I had or hadn't tried it. Up to this point, you have no information about whether I have or haven't, so get off your high horse. You presume a great deal, particulary since you're chiding me for not having read carefully. Pot, kettle?
As a matter of fact, I have tried it. When I was an undergraduate, there was a guy on my dorm floor who claimed it made a big difference. I didn't believe him. So we got a few guys together and blind tested him, myself, and a half-dozen other guys on the hall. Nobody could do better than guessing at which CD had the green pen and which didn't. (I know, we're close to "DBT" here, so I'm sure I'll be branded a heretic, but whatever.)
Now, I'm not claiming that this was a super-scientific well-controlled test, but I certainly consider this useful evidence.
Quote:
I see. Because you're a big-shot "expert," you get to set the rules not only about what questions people are allowed to ask, but also about the specific word choices people are allowed to make? Thought Police, anyone?
The irony here is that I have a Ph.D. in experimental psychology (as well as degrees in engineering and computer science) and make my living generating, reviewing, and teaching experimental psychology. So what appears to be your attempt to one-up me based on credentials is completely wasted. Based on your location, I'm guessing you can pull out a NIDA or NIH or similar affiliation--don't bother. Either way, you should not get to be the final authority on what language we get to use, moderator or no.
I chose the term "expectation" exactly because I did not want to use a more precise technical term, as the lay use of "expectation" works very well in this context. I think aeberbach's response backs me up on this.
Now, I'd like to point out that *nowhere* did I say someone heard something that didn't exist. Nor did I ever claim that the green pen treatment doesn't work. I merely said I thought the empirical evidence is less than certain (which is evident on this thread: some people say they hear it, some say they don't), so therefore asking a question about the technical basis for the claim was meaningful.
Despite your contention this the only thing on these boards is "what people hear," I have seen useful and sometimes very detailed technical explanations on a variety of topics on this forum (e.g., schmatics for amps). So why in this case are technical questions out-of-bounds--they're perfectly fine, even routine, on many other threads!
But for simply suggesting a question was a legitimate one to ask, you jumped down my throat and suggested my opinion is worthless and that I leave the board. Wow.
I find that very heavy-handed. I'm a relative newbie to this forum, but one of the reasons I've felt comfortable here is that so far I've generally found people friendly and able to disagree amicably. If your goal is indeed to drive me away from reading head-fi (as you imply), you are doing a great job--though that strikes me as a strange goal for a moderator to have.
Quote:
Indeed. If "DBT-free" also implies "you can't even suggest questions a moderator doesn't like," there's little point in staying.
Originally posted by Hirsch If you want to argue that "green pen" advocates aren't hearing what they report, without having tried it yourself, then your opinion is worth far less than that of those who have at least made the attempt to determine if it was snake oil or not in the only way that matters: listening. |
Upon what basis are you making the judgement that I haven't tried it? I never said whether I had or hadn't tried it. Up to this point, you have no information about whether I have or haven't, so get off your high horse. You presume a great deal, particulary since you're chiding me for not having read carefully. Pot, kettle?
As a matter of fact, I have tried it. When I was an undergraduate, there was a guy on my dorm floor who claimed it made a big difference. I didn't believe him. So we got a few guys together and blind tested him, myself, and a half-dozen other guys on the hall. Nobody could do better than guessing at which CD had the green pen and which didn't. (I know, we're close to "DBT" here, so I'm sure I'll be branded a heretic, but whatever.)
Now, I'm not claiming that this was a super-scientific well-controlled test, but I certainly consider this useful evidence.
Quote:
BTW, I really would appreciate your not using "expectation" as a construct for people not hearing what you think they should. It has a rather precise meaning in psychology that tends to be lost in audio arguments. I'm an experimental psychologist working in drug development and I tend to get annoyed when technical terms in psychology are incorrectly applied. |
I see. Because you're a big-shot "expert," you get to set the rules not only about what questions people are allowed to ask, but also about the specific word choices people are allowed to make? Thought Police, anyone?
The irony here is that I have a Ph.D. in experimental psychology (as well as degrees in engineering and computer science) and make my living generating, reviewing, and teaching experimental psychology. So what appears to be your attempt to one-up me based on credentials is completely wasted. Based on your location, I'm guessing you can pull out a NIDA or NIH or similar affiliation--don't bother. Either way, you should not get to be the final authority on what language we get to use, moderator or no.
I chose the term "expectation" exactly because I did not want to use a more precise technical term, as the lay use of "expectation" works very well in this context. I think aeberbach's response backs me up on this.
Now, I'd like to point out that *nowhere* did I say someone heard something that didn't exist. Nor did I ever claim that the green pen treatment doesn't work. I merely said I thought the empirical evidence is less than certain (which is evident on this thread: some people say they hear it, some say they don't), so therefore asking a question about the technical basis for the claim was meaningful.
Despite your contention this the only thing on these boards is "what people hear," I have seen useful and sometimes very detailed technical explanations on a variety of topics on this forum (e.g., schmatics for amps). So why in this case are technical questions out-of-bounds--they're perfectly fine, even routine, on many other threads!
But for simply suggesting a question was a legitimate one to ask, you jumped down my throat and suggested my opinion is worthless and that I leave the board. Wow.
I find that very heavy-handed. I'm a relative newbie to this forum, but one of the reasons I've felt comfortable here is that so far I've generally found people friendly and able to disagree amicably. If your goal is indeed to drive me away from reading head-fi (as you imply), you are doing a great job--though that strikes me as a strange goal for a moderator to have.
Quote:
Originally posted by chych I am sooooo out of this discussion |
Indeed. If "DBT-free" also implies "you can't even suggest questions a moderator doesn't like," there's little point in staying.