dCS Bartok
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gnomen
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I posted this on the Weiss thread ... but cross-posting here as it also includes comments on the Bartok. Any thoughts/observations from Bartok users gratefully received:
I had a short audition today of the Weiss 501 mk2 and the Helios. Also compared to the dCS Lina and, very briefly, to an original Bartok. It was a short session just to gain some initial impressions so none of the findings are conclusive. And of course it is difficult listening in someone else's system with different speakers, amplifier, room and so on. The overall set up leaned toward being dry and analytical, so it somewhat favoured those DACs which could complement it by being warmer and smoother.
First impressions, the 501 mk2 was very good in all departments, a good all-round performer. The Lina was better by about the amount of the price difference, primarily because of a more full-bodied delivery while still retaining the resolving qualities. On large-scale orchestral passages the Lina had more authority. In complex musical passages the Lina was a tad more 'grainy'. The Helios was clearly better again than the 501 mk2 (and the Lina). In a slightly more forgiving setting it might well be perfect. Per the reviews I have read, the original Bartok provided the smoothness needed in that setup, although it did not surpass the Helios in any respects.
So I am left thinking the Helios needs to be compared to the Bartok Apex over a longer session with more varied material. Ideally in my own system, but I am okay with a second demo before doing that eventually, given today's session was only 2 hours long.
One slight niggle is that the ethernet input of the Helios had failed and we had to connect to the network via a laptop + USB to the Helios. I guess it can happen with any equipment but given the Weiss reputation for robust engineering it was somewhat disappointing that it happened today -- and that neither the dealer nor the Weiss engineer could resolve the problem before the demo despite their best efforts. Clearly a hardware failure requiring repair.
I had a short audition today of the Weiss 501 mk2 and the Helios. Also compared to the dCS Lina and, very briefly, to an original Bartok. It was a short session just to gain some initial impressions so none of the findings are conclusive. And of course it is difficult listening in someone else's system with different speakers, amplifier, room and so on. The overall set up leaned toward being dry and analytical, so it somewhat favoured those DACs which could complement it by being warmer and smoother.
First impressions, the 501 mk2 was very good in all departments, a good all-round performer. The Lina was better by about the amount of the price difference, primarily because of a more full-bodied delivery while still retaining the resolving qualities. On large-scale orchestral passages the Lina had more authority. In complex musical passages the Lina was a tad more 'grainy'. The Helios was clearly better again than the 501 mk2 (and the Lina). In a slightly more forgiving setting it might well be perfect. Per the reviews I have read, the original Bartok provided the smoothness needed in that setup, although it did not surpass the Helios in any respects.
So I am left thinking the Helios needs to be compared to the Bartok Apex over a longer session with more varied material. Ideally in my own system, but I am okay with a second demo before doing that eventually, given today's session was only 2 hours long.
One slight niggle is that the ethernet input of the Helios had failed and we had to connect to the network via a laptop + USB to the Helios. I guess it can happen with any equipment but given the Weiss reputation for robust engineering it was somewhat disappointing that it happened today -- and that neither the dealer nor the Weiss engineer could resolve the problem before the demo despite their best efforts. Clearly a hardware failure requiring repair.
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Hi Folks
We just posted our review of the dCS Bartok APEX with an in-depth comparison to the Lina stack and including how it performs using the Lina Master Clock
https://headfonics.com/dcs-bartok-apex-review/
We just posted our review of the dCS Bartok APEX with an in-depth comparison to the Lina stack and including how it performs using the Lina Master Clock
https://headfonics.com/dcs-bartok-apex-review/
tmarshl
500+ Head-Fier
I have a dCS Bartok, and use Ethernet, which is recommended as the best interface. I find it to be excellent. I am using EQ in Roon which also works perfectly.
Andrewteee
100+ Head-Fier
That was a really great review. The detailed comparisons with Lina are helpful for many reasons. I'm committed to the Bartok APEX, but if I were in the market this review would be very informative for both products.Hi Folks
We just posted our review of the dCS Bartok APEX with an in-depth comparison to the Lina stack and including how it performs using the Lina Master Clock
https://headfonics.com/dcs-bartok-apex-review/
Do you know where you can find instruction to set-up ROON with your Bartok?
RHMMMM
100+ Head-Fier
There are currently 11 dCS Bartok units for sale on Audiogon. That is among the highest count of any particular DAC model being listed for sale at one time.
I’ve always been curious about the Bartok but this gives me pause. Any thoughts? What are people moving to? Why so are so many people selling?
I’ve always been curious about the Bartok but this gives me pause. Any thoughts? What are people moving to? Why so are so many people selling?
chesebert
18 Years An Extra-Hardcore Head-Fi'er
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Not worth the money and doesn't sound all that good in the first place (comparatively speaking of course). Lina is a better sounding dac. Rossini is what dCS really wants to sell you (modern hi-end sound profile but may not be for everyone).
Just looked up there are 38 Bartoks being sold second hand right now.
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I personally love my Bartók. It is a very full bodied sounding DAC with very good detail retrieval.
I compared it with the Tambaqui which was beautiful and airy. They were different tastes but I preferred the Bartók. Especially since version 2.0 it is especially good.
It's a wonderful all in one unit.
I think the price has increased quite a bit so maybe people are looking to make a profit.
Not sure.
they are sitting because the prices are too high and the used market is slow; the bartok (non-apex) is my endgame network/dac but it's going to take a while for me to get the funds and of course i would only be interested around 7.5-8K. the apex, even used, is outside my budget unfortunately.
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If they were purchased at the original price point, then $7,000 or so is about what they would probably sell at. What prices have you seen in the used market?
Bartok is the most natural sounding dac I've heard. Not sure why some people are letting it go.
There's a dramatic improvement in performance when I updated it to version 2.0
There's a dramatic improvement in performance when I updated it to version 2.0
SolarCetacean
500+ Head-Fier
I'm quite interested in comparing the Bartok Apex with the Tambaqui. I've heard the Bartok Apex and its headphone output several times at a hi-fi store that I often visit. It seems quite smooth to my ear, maybe even a little too smooth, but not lacking in absolute detail. I'm mostly curious because I have this idea of having a smoother and mellower chain for use in my living room in conjunction with the LTA Z10e multifunction amp and the Bartok's smooth nature is conceptually appealing. But there's a difference between what I think is a good concept and what I will actually enjoy when I have it. I don't want the Bartok just for conceptual completeness if I don't enjoy the resulting sound.
I'm on friendly terms with the store's owner and asked him about the Tambaqui. He's heard it, but he thinks the Bartok Apex is better, so he chose not to carry the brand at his store. He admits that the Tambaqui could be better than the original Bartok (and frustratingly, most of the comparisons I see are from before the Apex upgrade), but he did not see the appeal in the Tambaqui once the Bartok Apex came around. Now, he does have a preference for warmer and smoother sound, while I tend to prefer an airier sound.
I'm on friendly terms with the store's owner and asked him about the Tambaqui. He's heard it, but he thinks the Bartok Apex is better, so he chose not to carry the brand at his store. He admits that the Tambaqui could be better than the original Bartok (and frustratingly, most of the comparisons I see are from before the Apex upgrade), but he did not see the appeal in the Tambaqui once the Bartok Apex came around. Now, he does have a preference for warmer and smoother sound, while I tend to prefer an airier sound.
I thoroughly enjoyed the Bartók the the year I had one. I had been skeptical of the pricier DACs — were they worth it? 3 hours alone with one and my own Focal Stellias led to an order. The one box aspect was nice as well (I bought one with the headphone amplifier). But then the thought of a clock started making me wonder, which lead to a Rossini Player. While I have neither of them now, I am keeping an eye out for a Vivaldi. I enjoy the dCS sound and that’s the next logical step. Maybe folks are on a similar journey. I’ve heard several stories of folks starting with the Bartók and winding up with a Rossini a year or two later (some less, of course).
Funnily enough I actually have my Bartók 2.0 on eBay here in the UK.
Not because I don't like it that is certainly not the case!
Last year I had the opportunity to compare the Bartók with the Tambaqui but also with a Dave + Grimm combo.
I preferred Bartók to Tambaqui but it really is personal preference.
The Dave + Grimm combo was ridiculous though. It was extremely detailed but non fatiguing. I felt this was the best you could achieve
The Grimm was the secret ingredient there though. I assumed once I got the Grimm the Bartók would be traded in for the Dave. However it also sounds so lovely as well the Bartók has stayed put.
I was also reluctant to do this exchange as the Bartók is a wonderful all in one device so if I had an issue with the Grimm (for example) I can still enjoy quality music from the one device.
Since a second hand Dave would be much cheaper I thought I can finally clear the remaining cost of incurred by this audiophile rabbithole.
So if anyone in the UK wants to trade do shout, otherwise I will just let the auction expire. I'm just testing the water really.
It's not like I'm unhappy with my setup. Both setups make me feel that audio has finally been "completed".
Not because I don't like it that is certainly not the case!
Last year I had the opportunity to compare the Bartók with the Tambaqui but also with a Dave + Grimm combo.
I preferred Bartók to Tambaqui but it really is personal preference.
The Dave + Grimm combo was ridiculous though. It was extremely detailed but non fatiguing. I felt this was the best you could achieve
The Grimm was the secret ingredient there though. I assumed once I got the Grimm the Bartók would be traded in for the Dave. However it also sounds so lovely as well the Bartók has stayed put.
I was also reluctant to do this exchange as the Bartók is a wonderful all in one device so if I had an issue with the Grimm (for example) I can still enjoy quality music from the one device.
Since a second hand Dave would be much cheaper I thought I can finally clear the remaining cost of incurred by this audiophile rabbithole.
So if anyone in the UK wants to trade do shout, otherwise I will just let the auction expire. I'm just testing the water really.
It's not like I'm unhappy with my setup. Both setups make me feel that audio has finally been "completed".
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