[CreditingKarma]

I too was interested in the melco switch to go with my bartok so I contacted dcs and this was their reply

James Cook (dCS)

1 Feb 2021, 11:36 CET

Good morning Paul,

Thank you for contacting dCS. I am pleased to hear you are enjoying your Bartók so far!

When it comes to your network, the key point to consider is that you are striving for your network to be stable and reliable, not for it to sound good. Sound quality does not come into networking - only when the data arrives at the Bartók and has been through the final buffer stage does it become relevant. Audiophile network switches often introduce connectivity problems as they try to carry out network traffic management, blocking the traffic that your Bartók uses to communicate with your control device, such as an iPad - without introducing the sound quality improvements they claim to.

I would recommend a basic unmanaged network switch if you are looking to add one - the Netgear GS108 is a good example. The extra investment in your system would be much better spent elsewhere, such as on upgrading the cables in your system (with the exception of Ethernet) - or of course put towards a Rossini Clock to use with the Bartók, which would bring a significant jump in audio performance.

So I've ordered the Rossini Clock.......

I found no real audible improvement from the addition of a device like innuos or auralic streamers with the network input. As such I bought a new Mac mini with the m1 chip for 650 and use it as my roon core attached to my network.

 

[FangJoker]

And you have one of the best DAC's out there. I was so impressed with the Bartok in my headphone system (I owned it for 2 months) that it inspired me to return it and move to a Rossini and Master Clock which has now displaced my Linn in the two channel system. The Linn is now doing headphone DAC duties.

Do you think I should go with the Master Clock before the Upsampler? I thought going to the upsampler first would be better for me and I could use my current NAS with the upsampler's network interface.

 

[buzzlulu]

Upsampler? That is for the Vivaldi.
For the Bartok the only upgrade would be the Rossini Master Clock.
Do keep in mind that the price of a Bartok/Master Clock almost approaches that of a bare Rossini.

 

[Jon773]

I too was interested in the melco switch to go with my bartok so I contacted dcs and this was their reply

James Cook (dCS)

1 Feb 2021, 11:36 CET

Good morning Paul,

Thank you for contacting dCS. I am pleased to hear you are enjoying your Bartók so far!

When it comes to your network, the key point to consider is that you are striving for your network to be stable and reliable, not for it to sound good. Sound quality does not come into networking - only when the data arrives at the Bartók and has been through the final buffer stage does it become relevant. Audiophile network switches often introduce connectivity problems as they try to carry out network traffic management, blocking the traffic that your Bartók uses to communicate with your control device, such as an iPad - without introducing the sound quality improvements they claim to.

I would recommend a basic unmanaged network switch if you are looking to add one - the Netgear GS108 is a good example. The extra investment in your system would be much better spent elsewhere, such as on upgrading the cables in your system (with the exception of Ethernet) - or of course put towards a Rossini Clock to use with the Bartók, which would bring a significant jump in audio performance.

So I've ordered the Rossini Clock.......

Yes I know the standard dCS response to this question and a lot of their user support for 'bugs' into their products, turn out to be user network related issues and not dCS issues. So his comment make sense.

However, I have plugged an EE8Switch in before my Bartok and I could hear a slight difference. It was noticeable.

His advice to spend on the Rossini Clock is also spot on. Its a really good upgrade as well. But I have the clock, so I am looking to see if there are additional improvements to be had from the network and server side.

Given the results people on AudiophileStyle have had from their network and server optimisations, I kind of think there are some gains, but its more about how significant they are and if that is worth investing in ahead of say a Clock for a Bartok.

 

[jonnyt]

New Bartok owner here. Loving the sound and having pored through the entire thread I have a couple of questions:

1) Are there any upgrades that are considered essential? I tried a couple of audiophile power cables but couldn’t hear any difference so sent them back. I also haven’t bothered with fancy Ethernet cable or an etherREGEN as I have an electronics/ telecommunications background and simply don't agree with the science of ethernet upgrades.
My plan is to save up for the Rossini clock and leave the Bartok pretty vanilla till then.

2) Are there any standard choices for the upsampling or filters? With limited playing around, I can't really hear much difference between DSD and DXD or the different filters. The crossfeed makes a huge difference and so I am still trying to figure out which settings I prefer.

3) Anyone else have issues with static electricity? I house my Bartok in the bottom of a metal USM desk and I have had the occasional static shock to my ears on my Final D8000s (although not on the LCD-4s or HD800S). Has anyone else seen anything similar?

 

[Jon773]

@jonnyt Save for the Rossini Clock. Its a decent upgrade, very noticeable.

EE 8Switch and a Supra Cat8 cable made a difference for me and so does a Furutech DPS4.1 power cable with the NCF fittings.

Suggest you try stuff before dismissing it; so long as you can send it back if its no good at improving SQ. By the way what power cables did you try? I also have Chord Signature's; but the DPS4.1 is noticeably better.

I quite like the Expanse settings, but its down to personal taste and the album makes a difference, there is no one setting for all music.

DXD vs DSD is incredibly subtle. To the point where you go with one and then leave it alone. I went with DXD.

No static issues for me, so cant comment on that.

Enjoy the Bartok, its a fantastic piece of kit

 

[jonnyt]

@jonnyt Save for the Rossini Clock. Its a decent upgrade, very noticeable.

EE 8Switch and a Supra Cat8 cable made a difference for me and so does a Furutech DPS4.1 power cable with the NCF fittings.

Suggest you try stuff before dismissing it; so long as you can send it back if its no good at improving SQ. By the way what power cables did you try? I also have Chord Signature's; but the DPS4.1 is noticeably better.

I quite like the Expanse settings, but its down to personal taste and the album makes a difference, there is no one setting for all music.

DXD vs DSD is incredibly subtle. To the point where you go with one and then leave it alone. I went with DXD.

No static issues for me, so cant comment on that.

Enjoy the Bartok, its a fantastic piece of kit

Cheers, I tried a couple of Nordost cables in the £400 to £600 range and honestly couldn't hear a difference obver the stock. Maybe its my hearing. I guess I could try some sort of power conditioner if I were able to return it. I'm happy to spend on anything I can hear. My dealer has offered me a trial Rossini clock but I'm going to give it a few months at least to get used to the basic Bartok sound before I make any significant upgrades.
I suppose I could try some ethernet upgrades but given the measurements taken on the Audio Science Review site and the fact that ethernet information is packeted, error corrected and re-clocked as standard, I'm not really sure where any possible improvement could even come from? YMMV though and I'm not looking to get into a cable argument as I am far from being an expert.
Looks like I need to prepare for a clock-sized hole in my wallet sometime this year...

 

[Roasty]

Cheers, I tried a couple of Nordost cables in the £400 to £600 range and honestly couldn't hear a difference obver the stock. Maybe its my hearing. I guess I could try some sort of power conditioner if I were able to return it. I'm happy to spend on anything I can hear. My dealer has offered me a trial Rossini clock but I'm going to give it a few months at least to get used to the basic Bartok sound before I make any significant upgrades.
I suppose I could try some ethernet upgrades but given the measurements taken on the Audio Science Review site and the fact that ethernet information is packeted, error corrected and re-clocked as standard, I'm not really sure where any possible improvement could even come from? YMMV though and I'm not looking to get into a cable argument as I am far from being an expert.
Looks like I need to prepare for a clock-sized hole in my wallet sometime this year...

Congrats on the Bartok!

Give the EtherRegen a shot. If you don't hear a difference, return it.
I also read audiosciencereview and I knew about that ER thread even before I bought the ER. Despite the data being against it, I did hear a difference with the ER, and it stays in my chain.

If data, measurements, and findings on ASR influence your purchases, then the Bartok would really not have been necessary, and something like a Topping D90 or Gustard X16 plus a raspberry pi streamer would have been sufficient.

 

[ThanatosVI]

New Bartok owner here. Loving the sound and having pored through the entire thread I have a couple of questions:

1) Are there any upgrades that are considered essential? I tried a couple of audiophile power cables but couldn’t hear any difference so sent them back. I also haven’t bothered with fancy Ethernet cable or an etherREGEN as I have an electronics/ telecommunications background and simply don't agree with the science of ethernet upgrades.
My plan is to save up for the Rossini clock and leave the Bartok pretty vanilla till then.

2) Are there any standard choices for the upsampling or filters? With limited playing around, I can't really hear much difference between DSD and DXD or the different filters. The crossfeed makes a huge difference and so I am still trying to figure out which settings I prefer.

3) Anyone else have issues with static electricity? I house my Bartok in the bottom of a metal USM desk and I have had the occasional static shock to my ears on my Final D8000s (although not on the LCD-4s or HD800S). Has anyone else seen anything similar?

I don't have a Bartok, generally you should at least try some power conditioner or regenerator.
Brought some very noticeable differences to my system.

I'd also try things like an etherregen but the differences can't be more than the difference between lokal flac files and streamed content so I'd leave it for last.

Another thing would be headphone cables, the beauty of the bartok is that it is a one Box solution, so there is not much left to improve

 

[BassicScience]

And don't forget to rub some snake oil on your network cables while you're experimenting with stuff!

 

[Jon773]

And don't forget to rub some snake oil on your network cables while you're experimenting with stuff!

Yeah or maybe just try and see; and if you cant hear anything just return them. No harm in trying now is there.

Or you could just read about one side of an argument on the internet. fall for it without knowing really what you are falling for, and never try different stuff out on different systems... We are lucky in a lot of countries to be able to return goods that aren't wanted after a few days or even weeks.

 

[Jon773]

Cheers, I tried a couple of Nordost cables in the £400 to £600 range and honestly couldn't hear a difference obver the stock. Maybe its my hearing. I guess I could try some sort of power conditioner if I were able to return it. I'm happy to spend on anything I can hear. My dealer has offered me a trial Rossini clock but I'm going to give it a few months at least to get used to the basic Bartok sound before I make any significant upgrades.
I suppose I could try some ethernet upgrades but given the measurements taken on the Audio Science Review site and the fact that ethernet information is packeted, error corrected and re-clocked as standard, I'm not really sure where any possible improvement could even come from? YMMV though and I'm not looking to get into a cable argument as I am far from being an expert.
Looks like I need to prepare for a clock-sized hole in my wallet sometime this year...

The Rossini clock appeared in my system in under 5 months... You can turn the clock off mid track and can hear the sound difference straight away. I was surprised how much of a difference it made on some tracks. It affects all tracks, but its more pronounced on some. No 'snake oil' with the clock, not subtleties, it just works.

The filters do make a difference, but try going from Filter 1 down to the other end and you can hear it more easily. The steps are more subtle. Filters are set for each frequency combo and file type, so you need to do it a few times. Also different filters for MQA files and DSD.

 

[BassicScience]

Yeah or maybe just try and see; and if you cant hear anything just return them. No harm in trying now is there.

Or you could just read about one side of an argument on the internet. fall for it without knowing really what you are falling for, and never try different stuff out on different systems... We are lucky in a lot of countries to be able to return goods that aren't wanted after a few days or even weeks.

We're getting OT here, but there are literally thousands (millions?) of cables, devices, tweaks, etc. that one could insert into an audio chain. Trying everything isn't really an option, so one should probably start from a point of understanding how things work, what is likely to effect an improvement (or even a difference), and whether the money would be better spent elsewhere in the system. You might as well flush $650 down the toilet instead of spending it on a device which claims to reduce the jitter in Ethernet signals. While it may well do that, the result will be zero audible effect on the performance of your system.

 

[Jon773]

There are plenty of people who have tried devices like the EtherREGEN and reported back very positive and clearly audible results. I am sure others will report back that they cant hear much difference.

Depends on your home setup, including how clean the power is that comes out your wall socket.

At some point you need to pick something and try it out; do your research first, but you still need to make a decision and try. I have optimised in a number of areas and have been looking at the network side things recently; its just where I am at in my journey. Although the Clock is probably one of the best upgrades for the Bartok, its damn expensive and its really not essential.

Read the science as well, plenty of that out there. But science cant explain everything and tests are usually indicative and certainly not foolproof. The results of scientific tests can still fail to explain things...

I own a Bartok and have tried a few things and I own the Rossini Clock; that is a clear upgrade and it stays in my system. I had a result with the Supra cable and the 8Switch, so it stays in the system; both items could have been returned for a refund. I don't own expensive ethernet cables and dCS dont recommend them either, they just say to buy ones that are actually properly made to industry specifications, which is why I have a BlueJeansCable Cat6 and a Supra Cat8. After the import charges, both cables are still cheap and cost about the same.

 

[TFEC West]

Do let us know how you like the Vivaldi, I had the DAVE, now have the Bartok, and have purposely not listened to the Vivaldi because I don't want to be $educed!

I just received my dCS Bartok with Headphone Amp today. Sounds great out of the box, but will wait until fully broken in to provide a review.