[Lucky87]

What did the JPS digital AC-X add to your dave compared to stock?

For me it tamed the overall brightness, and analytic side from the Dave but still kept everything you want like soundstage, timbre, and tonality. Basically took out the harshness when you play a certain song and know the section is coming up that will hurt your ears now gone. I see you are in UK I demoed some cables from TheCableCompany in the US which were already broke in for a week which cost like $100 for 3 cables that cost total $3k and when you purchased the cable the $100 went towards your purchase so it was a FREE DEMO basically. Honestly I still have not given up on the Bartok as of yet I am looking into some other tubes and a SS amp and if I see one pop up used in Silver I might jump on it..

 

[Lucky87]

Apple music is a HUGE improvement to Roon, Tidal and Qobuz? It's not even bit-perfect on PC/Mac...

I understand what you are saying but I received a 3 months free trial and still blown away with the sound, have you tried it? Not sure what the heck they are doing but anything I listen too via Roon, Tidal, Qobuz then go back into Apple Music and re-listen to the same stuff and I hear more into the song than I have ever heard, super black back ground. I find myself listening to more and more music not for an hour then be done I am going now 2-4 hours. Give it a try and go back in forth and you will know what I am talking about.

 

[DJJEZ]

For me it tamed the overall brightness, and analytic side from the Dave but still kept everything you want like soundstage, timbre, and tonality. Basically took out the harshness when you play a certain song and know the section is coming up that will hurt your ears now gone. I see you are in UK I demoed some cables from TheCableCompany in the US which were already broke in for a week which cost like $100 for 3 cables that cost total $3k and when you purchased the cable the $100 went towards your purchase so it was a FREE DEMO basically. Honestly I still have not given up on the Bartok as of yet I am looking into some other tubes and a SS amp and if I see one pop up used in Silver I might jump on it..

thanks for the reply. i've been looking for a power cord for my DAVE to replace the stock one so gonna try one of these end of month. will report back

 

[edwardsean]

I understand what you are saying but I received a 3 months free trial and still blown away with the sound, have you tried it? Not sure what the heck they are doing but anything I listen too via Roon, Tidal, Qobuz then go back into Apple Music and re-listen to the same stuff and I hear more into the song than I have ever heard, super black back ground. I find myself listening to more and more music not for an hour then be done I am going now 2-4 hours. Give it a try and go back in forth and you will know what I am talking about.

Yeah, I don't know what kind of access they have to masters and their exact conversion process to AAC, but they really did get it right. It's definitely better SQ than other lossless streaming services. There is incredible detail even at 44.1/48KHz. However it still lacks the density and texture of locally stored wav files, at least in my system.

 

[llamaluv]

I'm suspecting the tonality issues were due to something particular. It was almost bleached sounding (lacking in color and low-end dynamics). I doubt this is a case of "we all hear different" and all that, but more like, something is actually off about the setup I heard. Though it it was nevertheless able to convey a lot of really interesting qualities that has me very much interested.

I totally have to revisit the DAC with the adjustments mentioned earlier (using my own external amp, asking for it to be taken off the power conditioner, possibly trying another headphone as well) to be sure of what I'm now only just assuming -- that it's a DAC that I'm going to like a lot, and more so that what I currently have.

So I returned to the shop this evening and used my own external amp, which made a night-and-day difference compared to what I described previously. I also had the DAC disconnected from the power conditioner this time around.

I only needed 20-30 minutes of listening to verify what I could only up til then infer -- that the DAC sounds great to my ears, with no lingering caveats. Also -- and I don't know why I didn't think about this earlier, but -- I asked, and the store unit had not had its headphone-out used hardly at all (which makes sense), so the amplifier circuit could have probably used some (or a lot of) burn-in, too. But anyway.

The kicker is that there was a unit that was actually in stock. It's already sounding great, fresh out of the box.



I am really liking how the Bakoon AMP-13R and Utopia are faring with it, and plan on sticking with this combination for a while before bothering experimenting with other permutations of amps and headphones that are a part of my system.

 

[jlbrach]

I own the 13r and chord dave...when I owned my utopia in the past I thought it sounded great straight out of the dave...the 13r or any other equivilent amp wasnt needed and was overkill IMHO...the 13r is killer for the susvara or abyss

 

[chesebert]

Apple music is a HUGE improvement to Roon, Tidal and Qobuz? It's not even bit-perfect on PC/Mac...

Nothing wrong preferring inferior format. Less file information is objectively worse than more file information if your goal is to hear as close to original as you can - full stop. You just prefer Apple Music coloration, and that’s fine.

 

[edwardsean]

Nothing wrong preferring inferior format. Less file information is objectively worse than more file information if your goal is to hear as close to original as you can - full stop. You just prefer Apple Music coloration, and that’s fine.

I agree with the OP. Apple Music lossless AAC clearly sounds worse than wav files played on e.g., Audirvana. However, it also clearly beats Tidal's bit perfect FLAC stream.

If superior detail retrieval, timbral accuracy/density, and organic flow is a type of "coloration" Apple did really well with their inferior format.

Whoever is interested should just start a free trial and listen for themselves. In a good system I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

 

[SuperBurrito]

So I returned to the shop this evening and used my own external amp, which made a night-and-day difference compared to what I described previously. I also had the DAC disconnected from the power conditioner this time around.

I only needed 20-30 minutes of listening to verify what I could only up til then infer -- that the DAC sounds great to my ears, with no lingering caveats. Also -- and I don't know why I didn't think about this earlier, but -- I asked, and the store unit had not had its headphone-out used hardly at all (which makes sense), so the amplifier circuit could have probably used some (or a lot of) burn-in, too. But anyway.

The kicker is that there was a unit that was actually in stock. It's already sounding great, fresh out of the box.



I am really liking how the Bakoon AMP-13R and Utopia are faring with it, and plan on sticking with this combination for a while before bothering experimenting with other permutations of amps and headphones that are a part of my system.

Awesome - Congrats! And the sound will only get better when dCS releases a firmware update.

 

[llamaluv]

Just wanted to share some observations on the differences in sound of the Bartok connected to a PSAudio P12 power regenerator versus plugged into the wall, for anyone that's curious.

In my experience, the P12 has similar effects on both DACs and amps: It usually creates a sense of greater clarity, clearer imaging, a more "organized" soundstage, a blacker background, and an altogether more controlled sound. And also, potentially a little bit brighter sound.

Anyway, the effect of the P12 is greater on the Bartok than any other device I've used it with (except maybe the Bakoon R13 amp). Much more so than with the DAVE, which I did prefer connected to the P12, for the better part of two years.

But the P12/Bartok combination possibly bends the stick too far, though I'm still trying to decide. The sound is more controlled and maybe more "hi-fi" sounding, but is also less free/loose/relaxed. Bass sounds tighter and more disciplined for it, but maybe too much so, and at the expense of some warmth. The analogy that enters my mind is that of pressing on a garden hose, causing the water pressure to increase (arguably more dynamism, also definitely more separation and sharper imaging), but at the expense of overall volume (less body). It feels like a "sins of omission" type situation, possibly. It's also, umm... more easily fatigue-inducing .

Anyway, the Bartok is sounding frickin gorgeous thus far, in either configuration. And an unequivocal upgrade, coming from a DAVE, IMO.

Edit:

One more thing, on headphone synergy. Using the P12 with the Bartok gives the Susvara this quicker, "sharper", and extra-spacious, uncongested character that works really well. It makes the Susvara sound more dynamic, and also makes the Susvara's best-in-class treble even sweeter. It works out because the Susvara can accommodate a slightly brighter sound coming from upstream (IMO).

In contrast, the Abyss Phi TC... totally can't, lol.

 

[Jon773]

I use an AQ Niagara 3000 with my Bartok and Clock... Its been in a while now and I am very happy with my sound overall.

Next decision for me is to consider going for something like the latest Abyss 1266, but not so keen if that headphone needs an external amp to drive it properly. I read some posts saying the internal amp in the Bartok is more than up to the job... Buy I would need to do some listening and A/B comparisons to be sure about it before committing to such a purchase.

 

[paradoxper]

I use an AQ Niagara 3000 with my Bartok and Clock... Its been in a while now and I am very happy with my sound overall.

Next decision for me is to consider going for something like the latest Abyss 1266, but not so keen if that headphone needs an external amp to drive it properly. I read some posts saying the internal amp in the Bartok is more than up to the job... Buy I would need to do some listening and A/B comparisons to be sure about it before committing to such a purchase.

The Bartok can drive the TC. External amplifiers are superior. But they say ignorance is bliss.

 

[Gavin C4]

Great recommendation from the thread for clock cables, Geistnote's Apogee Wyde Eye 75Ω BNC Word Clock Cable. Really good compared to the clock. Generally slightly better detail and better separation in the music.

 

[Gavin C4]

The Bartok or Rossini is really a product that is worth getting. I had a friend who was in search of a source upgrade. I recommended he should get DAC with streaming capabilities because he is using Roon and other streaming services such as tidal. Since I am using Rossini, I invited him to try it out. However, he complained it was too expensive and not worth it. He eventually grabs a DAC with standard USB input and BNC AES input options but no streaming capabilities. Over time, since he needed to use those streaming services, he bought an Raspberry Pi streamer, then switched to other streamer stuch as lumen streamer, auralic streamer, then a raspberry PI2AES, some USB re-lockers, Rasberry PI Roon bridge, upgraded usb cable, upgraded AES cable, upgraded dc power cord, Linear supply for the above devices, then upgraded power cord for linear supplies etc... Eventually ended up with a ton of boxes and might even add up to a Bartok. Soon he finally regretted.... Why not grab a single box Bartok or some other streaming DAC for a one box solution that is very well implemented. Eventually grab a Bartok and a LAN cable and finally, he came to a peace of mind with all those pile of boxes out of the house and started to enjoy music. Sometimes less is more.

 

[atya35mm]

The Bartok or Rossini is really a product that is worth getting. I had a friend who was in search of a source upgrade. I recommended he should get DAC with streaming capabilities because he is using Roon and other streaming services such as tidal. Since I am using Rossini, I invited him to try it out. However, he complained it was too expensive and not worth it. He eventually grabs a DAC with standard USB input and BNC AES input options but no streaming capabilities. Over time, since he needed to use those streaming services, he bought an Raspberry Pi streamer, then switched to other streamer stuch as lumen streamer, auralic streamer, then a, a raspberry PI2AES, some USB re-lockers, Rasberry PI Roon bridge, upgraded usb cable, upgraded AES cable, upgraded dc power cord, Linear supply for the above devices, then upgraded power cord for linear supplies etc... Eventually ended up with a ton of boxes and might even add up to a Bartok. Soon he finally regretted.... Why not grab a single box Bartok or some other streaming DAC for a one box solution that is very well implemented. Eventually grab a Bartok and a LAN cable and finally, he came to a peace of mind with all those pile of boxes out of the house and started to enjoy music.

Sounds familiar! I wish I can do Bartok but the depth of the unit is killer and not able to fit on my shelf. In saying that, for those tinkerers out there, they would still consider separate box for server or ethernet mods to improve sound further.