Damping Mechanical Energy Distortion of STAX and other phones with SORBOTHANE and other materials.

  1. Hutnicks
    That is exactly it. It is the contact area that is the culprit. Think of it like a car antenna in the old days where they were telescopic. When at the non extended short length it was really ridgid. Extended all the way which effectively made the base less stiff it whipped all around just by tapping on a fender. Same principle here really less adhesive contact area makes the block of sorb less ridgid..

    I doubt a strain guage is necessary. You can get there with a cheap mic and some recording software on the pc. The mic will pic up vibes from wherever you touch it to the outside cup, headband or wherever. The software can show you the waveform and frequency of the vibration.

    This is by no means an engineering test as the results are going to be subjective to your set up. It will however tell you where the vibrations are and give a more than adequate guide for damping them out. For this purpose even a cheap capsule mic from an old headset would do.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2017
  2. edstrelow Contributor

    I like the antenna analogy.
     
  3. Hutnicks
    Thanks.
    There has been lots of work done with vibration damping over the years. Jackie Stewart, when he was consulting with Ford implemented the fist test. He would go around the car and pound on various parts to see what shook. Not high tech, but effective enough that the engineers spent untold hours using putty and various materials to keep mirrors and dash components from vibrating. A million dollar test rig is not always essential:)

    In other disciplines Matthews Archery used medallions of sorbothane with a tungsten insert to reduce the brutal vibration of compound bows. There is a patent out there that describes it quite well.

    True temper used a plastic rod with a spiral of foam about 4mm wide wound around it inside golf shafts to reduce the hand shock. This same system was used for bicycle handlebars to reduce hand shock from road defects.

    They all share a common issue in that the damping material is in minimal contact with the item to be damped and transmits the vibration to another more dense material .

    As headphones inevitably (or so it seems to me) become more bass oriented, being able to tune for a frequency by the size and material choice of the resonator in contact with the damping medium becomes of more and more interest to me. Bass is high energy so the Matthews system (Compound Bows generally get reviewed specifically mentioning hand shock) may be a way to wick out the evil "Beats Sound" that seems to be permeating the trade. BW uses tungsten in their C5 IEM's as well for that purpose although not in the same implementation.
     
  4. edstrelow Contributor
    I have a large 12x 12 inch sheet of 1/2 inch 70 duro and would be prepared to send some samples if someone sends me an SSA package. The problem is fastening it. I cannot find this thickness with self-stick. Superglue will hold and gave good bass but poor treble. 3M 80 seems to sometimes fail. BTW I did try shoe goo, see post 757, but it did not hold to the metal of my SRXIII test phones. Lord 7650 is good, but expensive and I had to buy 2 cans at $35 each.
    Why 1/2 inch, well it does seem to go down into the bass region more than the thinner sorb. However it is so bulky there are few places to.put it on many phones.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2017
  5. Hutnicks
    Please try the Shoo Goo. Honestly it is one of the best adhesives available. Scuff the material you want to bond with some wet or dry sandpaper first. The other trick to it is to let is pre set a bit on a piece of waxed paper or a coffee tin lid until it is almost rubbery then press the materials on it.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2017
  6. edstrelow Contributor
    As I say, I did try the Shoe Goo. See post 757. I even posted a picture of the tube. It didn't stick to the aluminum at all.
     
  7. Hutnicks
    yes I got that. And in fact I have bonded it with Alu with good results. Give it a try with the suggestions I made re scuffing and or letting it pre set. As an aside the Goo itself has some remarkable damping properties so may be worth a go in areas where sorbo cannot be used.
     
  8. edstrelow Contributor
    I was mostly interested in using it on my wooden speakers so I wouldn't have to try the Lord 7650 and after it didn't stick to the aluminum I went for the Lord which seems to have no vices except that it contains carcinogens.
     
  9. Hutnicks
    If you can find it Loctite 454 is the bomb. We used it on laptop repairs ages ago and one stalward guy decided he was stronger than it an pulled off the rubber feet we had used it to glue to the chassis. He pulled it off all right, it came off with the enamel paint the chassis had baked on. The loctite was stronger than the baked on bond!
     
  10. richard51
    Only a short briefing about my experiment with more than 25 five species of crystals and minerals.... Madagascar banded agate, green and red tourmaline,(they are not cheap alas!) were among the better to improve my systems, any kind of impure quartz and pink quartz( thin disc on each of the four binding posts of my speakers did stupendous thing for the clarity of the imaging) and amethysts, also very small lava beads that makes miracles on any link of my system and in the last experiment only: Shungite, (top-grade elite variety only for the dac or the headphone), ....(remember that all crystals and stones are linked and works in mutual optimal complementary compensation) I will not go into more details at the risk to annoy anyone, because nobody up to now did not dare to try my crystals suggestion....But i can assure you that there is absolutely no comparison between my systems before and after.....The price i have paid for these experiments is more than entirely justified....I know now that the few companies that sell that audiophile tweak dont sell snake oil, but their price is matter to discuss to say the least! In some case way too much pricer...like many audiophile products for sure....For me the price i have paid is gladly paid, the upgrade is outstanding, trust me, nothing i know of compare for price/quality ratio....I cannot say more to make you curious and compel you to try....best regards to all the good folks on this thread...:beerchug:

    A word of caution: Use these 5 species of crystals and minerals together not necessarily at the same spot, but on many links of your system... it seems that these stones act synergetically together in the systems like some filtering device...

    update 29 may : The shungite is one of the most subtle and musical stone i put in my system, elite shungite and 2 pyramids of regular shungite stone, respectively on or near the dac, on the computer, and on my amplifier...And last but not least 9 little chunks of elite and regular shungite at the exterioir of the headphone glued with blutak, replacing some other crystals....The results are astounding for my He-400...After all the crystals i have put in all links of my system, i believe that the final goal was already realized, i was wrong! The shungite, on top of all that, makes my mix of elements so musical that it is unbelievable, this last of all improving change with shungite stones, is the more delicate,the more organic, producing one of the greatest effect in the details of the sound in space, the more musical one and all this without the trading off coming with some crystals or other stones; i cannot imagine greater improvement with anything now ... This is the crowning gem ... test yourself...:beerchug:
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2017
  11. edstrelow Contributor
     
  12. edstrelow Contributor
  13. richard51
    Not defensive:ksc75smile: ....But anxious and impatient to listen from others about that....I must say than i am flabbergast by the impact of this mod.... and you know first hand that it needs much words to shake people's inertia...:deadhorse: The problem is this mod takes, like sorb. mods, some experiment and more than sorb. mods many trying seance of listenings...But the results kill all doubts and other costly upgrading desire....

    Sorb. mod + crystals is the way to go toward TOTL audio for the poor, and i dont speak about some small improvement, but about a complete blooming of your system, for example, in the last few days i added shungite(on the computer,cd player, and dac) to all my many others crystals and minerals, and the added effect (silkier and way more natural sound and more detailed sound across the board) is so extraordinary that i listen my cd again for the first time. ( i know, yes, my wife said to me that i already said that many times in the last moths, but there it is because crystals improve one by one my system, when place at the right spot)...But dont begin with only shungite, it is costly compare to other crystals and minerals, and i think the effect will be better as a last experiment not in the first one with stones......

    My best regards Ed, because without you and this thread i would never had walk this blazing trail and thanks very much for the reference...

    Only one last word, crystals act in damping yes for sure, but are effective also without damping function, they seems to "intercept" or " filter" some EMI, not only damp....I am not an engineer, i speak metaphorically for sure about my impressions...I have not begin experiment to compare for damping speakers and amplifier and dac, the crystals versus sorb....i will in the future...
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2017
  14. Henery
    http://www.aluminousaudio.com/
    Aluminous Audio makes loudspeakers with patent pending mechanism to completely isolate them from floor. It is always a delight to see manufacturers paying extra attention to vibration damping. Maybe that gives you some ideas to try on your speakers.
     
    richard51 likes this.
  15. richard51

    Very Interesting Henery thanks...

    i myself rediscovered the imperative necessity to damp anything and after my sorbothane sand wich, i have learned that mixing different composite materials with their own damping property may be beneficial.... I added cork to all my sorb. sandwiches ( under my speakers, dac and amplifier)... The results are very convincing and better than without cork....Damping and isolation are very important and first and foremost the most important things to experiment with if you want to optimize your systems, with at the same time some room treatment....Crystals and stone after that....:L3000:

    http://www.ccm.udel.edu/research_su...tures-noise-mitigation-and-energy-absorption/

    Sorbothane sandwiche: at the bottom 4 very small pieces of rose quartz on my wooden desk, second layer is a granite plate with pieces of sorb. in between another granite plate, on top of this second granite plate some cork plates, on top of the cork plates a bamboo plate, on top of the bamboo plate some pieces of sorb. and finally the speakers ... ...The principle is to etablish some balance ratio between , coupling and decoupling, isolating and damping, hence cleaning all frequencies ideally with minimal loss, erasing the negative resonance with the mix of different materials, different volumes, different surfaces with a different resonant value...I am no engineer then i experiment to obtain this balance with this mixing of materials....It is now indeed more than very good...Each instrument never sound so good with my speakers, particularly piano and piano is one of the most difficult music instrument to register and reproduce correctly...:beerchug:
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2017

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