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Damping Mechanical Energy Distortion of STAX and other phones with SORBOTHANE and other materials.

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  1. oopeteroo


    I'm thinking to do it like nabwong on the Yamaha Mt220. He used 1/10" and 50 duro.

    But 1/4" 70 duro is the one to get ?
     
  2. nabwong

    It would be nice to be able to compare. I suppose it's cheap enough to get both sorbs.
     
  3. oopeteroo
    While I'm at it.....i Will ask Wayne what sorb u used ? Thickness and duro?
     
  4. jimbop54
    Where do you folks purchase self-stick sorbothane in various thickness and duro?
     
  5. oopeteroo
    amazon.com got some....sadly Amazon.Co.UK don't have many sticky one :/ found sticky 1/4" 70 duro on ebay but it's not isolateit
     
  6. richard51
    This provider is ok....i have order from him many times...
     
    http://www.ebay.ca/itm/251837579387?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
     
    http://www.ebay.ca/itm/371258034855?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
     
  7. oopeteroo
  8. jimbop54
    My impression is the the products from IsolateIt do not have the self-adhesive backing.
     
  9. richard51
    youre right, it is very important to read carefully, if the self-adhesive is included or not...[​IMG]
     
  10. richard51
    yes the quality is the same...i have bought from him for the last years...
     
  11. richard51
     CRYSTALS+ROCKS UPDATE:
     
    Yesterday i have put inside each cups of the HE-400, near the  little copper tube where come from the mini cables that go to the  drivers, 2 agathes small peebles around the mini tube and one topaz small peeble on top of it with a bit of blutak to bind them there ( crystals mixing is often the best for an optimal results or hybrid crystals) The result were a refinement evident of the soundstage and not only imaging, with more refine bass and highs....The upgrading effect versus cost is extraordinary....[​IMG]
     
    After 5 years with my HE-400 it takes me 4 years to truly love them without thinking to replace them, i have try  to replace them with my 2 staxes, but tweaking the staxes is more complicated, because there is an independent amp.for my lambda and an energizer for the SR-5,  hence more cable and more links to tweaks between my ears and my dac, and the sound of the he 400 coming directly from the sansui amp, being different however is  certainly on par  with the staxes after the mods, especially for the natural presence of voice and instrument, perhaps a bit  less soundstage though than the Lambda but more natural timbre for me...He-400 is an extraordinary headphone, quality/price ratio, but few people  had listen truly  to them, because almost nobody have try sorb.mods+crystals mod. on all piece of gear,dac and amp. included and not only headphones, because the final resulting sound and image depend on all that at the end....To beat them, with a real upgrade headphone, now i know would cost me too much, probably the total sum cost of all the gear i have already bought... 
     
     
    For all of those who read that and  would want a simple experiment verification of what i am saying, buy colored crystals(pink quartz for exemple) or hybrid quartz, there is also innumerable species of crystal minerals other than quartz to try and often better than the white quartz, amethyst or  green or red tourmaline for example, (black tourmaline will do, is cheaper but a little bit less musical than red or yellow one)  between 1 inch and 2 inches chunks, put them on the power strip and on the breaker in a bag taped on it (mix 2 species of crystal for a better result)... The cost will be few bucks, call it a day, and dont thank me but more importantly   write here your impression and thanks the initiator of this thread...[​IMG]
     
    I am amazed that people sometimes would pay thousand dollars for good cable without thinking, but will not try a more upgrading tweak that cost few buck...I have bought  very  good cable i like  in the past (250 dollars value) but crystals mod. + sorb. mod are first and foremost better and more spectacular upgrading methods than that....[​IMG]
     
     
    Addendum :
     
    2 experiential rules with the crystals use, to  ponder :
     
    A: Mixing different kind of crystals and rocks, 2 species or many in the same place is often better than only one kind
     
    B: No crystals or rocks act the same in different place, and will produce different effects at different link with different mix....At the end for your ears the final differences will be subtle but they will be clearly there...
     
    the use of rocks minerals and crystals are not a light upgrade, but the optimum last results are obtained after many test placement, and mixing experience, in a set of combinatorial possiblities very great indeed, and for me is more fun  and more spectacular than tube rolling... 
     
     
    Some last remark :
     
    One of the most sensible point location to put rocks and crystals is on top of the inside transformer of your amp... This evening i put some little bags of black tourmaline peebles, red agathe,lemurian smoked quartz,fluorite crystal, and kyanite peebles,on top of the transformer of my Sansui(the effect of the kyanite peebles rocks can be a little harsh but with some others crystals to compensate it the 3-d effect of this minerals is very effective on top of my Sansui) I also added to the tourmaline peebles and to the one chunk of tourmaline that were on top of my panamax power conditioner a ghost quartz crystal .... The effect of all this mix were an incredible new 3-d  soundstage from my speakers and He-400...i listen to it now, and it is there an upgrade beyond what i dream possible with my gear...[​IMG] And  yesterday I thought that I had already reached the limit...  Indeed experimenting hold the key to sonic heaven...
     
    A practical note:
     
    I made all my mixing without mixing the crystals and minerals in the same bag, i use diferent bag for each rocks and crystals, hence it is more easy to change and experiment with different location, the effect is very audible when each bag is put on top of one another... For example  adding only 1 bag of kyanite peebles on top of 4 other bags of tourmaline,  agate, lemurian crystals, made an immediate difference in the speakers like in the headphone ....[​IMG] 
     
  12. edstrelow Contributor
    I may have missed it but what is the theoretical explanation for crystals?  I.e. what is it supposed to be doing.  Is it damping, like sortbothane?
     
  13. richard51
    I dont know and i am truly not a physicist !....I only think, because it is my impression that, one way or another, by some way, crystals, or rocks minerals, act on the electrical magnetic fields around all gear, and clean it in some way, each rocks or crystals acting on their  corresponding resonant frequencies, hence it is better to mix them ( i put each one of them in a separate bag and place them together on the choosen location)...
     
     To answer your second question, the crystals and rocks can also act like damping products, i see some  company from japan with a great reputation and many positive reviews  that sell them with a big price for damping speakers or an  amp,  sitting them  on a box filled with crystals...For now i use them not  for damping but for these mysterious capacity to clean the field from EMI... The results are there and complementary on par with the sorb. effect,for the audiophile pleasure of my ears... With these 2 mods. i enjoy my system truly without thinking with no more insatisfaction and no more the urge to upgrade it with a massive investment of money...
     
    For the moment i am more interest to the possiblities given by crystals and rocks to clean EMI and transforming the listening space itself than by the damping possibilities in each audio gear(sorb. sandwich are great for that now) but i give to you this link about crystals damping  to read and some "explanation"... I dont want to pay this price for a wood box with crystals, hence i prefer to develop that myself in the future and compare them to  my sorb. sandwich ( this future is in the next 2 months i have ordered today pure natural quartz disc much less costly than the revive acoustic one and i will test damping capacity of quartz at this moment)       :
     
     https://www.acoustic-revive.com/english/rst38/rst38_01.html
     
    https://www.acoustic-revive.com/english/underboard/tb-38h.html
     
    https://www.acoustic-revive.com/english/pdf/afaRIQ-5010.pdf
     
    My  conviction is all audio gear vibrate, creating indesirable resonance effect that pollute the sound, but now i know that  electromagnetical interferences pollutes also the sound and the listening space room,  interferences coming from everywhere in the house and not only from all your audio gear, and the crystals and some rocks help greatly to clean that...Experimenting is the crux of the matter... I think that the truly scientific explanation is not for me to say, i am no scientist...I only touch the subject here to help with a mods, that save people money, or make people more happy with their products like you do for me with this thread in the first place, if i had not stumble here, i am certain i will have spend  too much more money to correct my insatisfaction with my  actual audio gear...Now i listen music and bought some rocks but it is not thousands of dollars cost so-call upgrade ...[​IMG] 
     
    In one word sorbothane and crystals help me to realize that the audio gear i  have, are  already very good product if not HI-FI almost HI-FI, and it is absolutely not necessary to upgrade them at all cost...Music when it is there is music...(diminushing returns law)... The fact is, almost all people have never listen to the optimal potential  sound quality level of their own  gear, because some other factors inhibit this potential audiophile sound and these factors are essentially vibrations and EMI... It is all i can say...
     
    By the way the method for verification of these affirmation of mine, is  the simple purchase for a few bucks of 3 different crystals specimens to begins with(colored quartz, amethyst and tourmaline for example) and more simply than with sorb,(because they are no duro choosing,no thickness choosing, no gluing process  of which one must be concerned with,  and the cost is lighter for 3 samples than for a sheet of sorb) placing them with a tape on the breaker corresponding to your audio room on the central electrical panel of your house, on the head of the electrical cable coming from your amp to the wall, and on the electrical strip that connect your system, at the end, simple, easy, and great upgrade! After that experiment, studying many physical science books will help for the explanations and who knows, a Nobel prize  together...[​IMG]
     
    I remember when i bought my first quality headphone, my first dac and amp, in the beginning i was happy, but in a short time i was critical of my own gear because, they were defect in the imaging, in the artificial sounding, harshness, etc, the timbre of the instrument was not natural; and many other people, experiencing that like me solved this problem by more money purchase of a new hype product, in a series of expense  spiralling without end... If you have the money that is not a problem...But for me it was necessary to explore other way to upgrade my system than buying without end  the new hype fad toward the ultimate system...Sorb. and crystals  complementary mods.are the key for me, they make a difference, and i now hear music, not  resonant negative frequencies that i must correct at all cost...I thank you Ed for your helping thread and i apologize because i cannot give answer to the scientific aspect of your question...Perhaps someone will...
     
    last experimental note:
     
    i just experiment something truly marvellous with crystals that transform the sound in a way that the sound float around me or toward me and does not come only from the speakers now... This is testimony to the power of using crystals and minerals to elevate the audio level...I will communicate that only after someone here at least confirm my experience by trying himself the little experiment with the 3 specimens i described in the middle part of my post ... After  this first external confirmation by one of you,  i will describe my last experiment with sound room, without risking then too much sarcasm...[​IMG] 
     
  14. waynes world
  15. edstrelow Contributor
    Acoustic Revive does in fact say that its crystals dampen mechanical vibrations, converting the energy to heat. This is the same explanation offered for sorbothane. Also their general explanation of the problem caused by mechanical vibration of the speaker box is basically the same as what I would make for speakers and headphones. My main point of difference would be that you should also be able to stop the box vibrations at the box, but AR stresses the floor because their damping system fits between the floor and the speaker box. If the box was sufficiently damped you wouldn't have vibrations passing to the floor.

    Not having tried crystals and not having seen any product reviews, I can't say how well they work compared to sorb but they cite several awards for their product. I have always understood that there were other materials which could achieve the same result. We need only consider that Grado claims to do this by means of a proprietary polycarbonate. About the only criticism I can make is that AR's products seem fairly expensive compared to sorbothane. Of course if they were a lot better that might not matter to some people looking for the best sound.

    I took this quote from your first cited reference and added my own bold to the text:
    "Achieved an ideal vibration control of the speakers
    An ideal structure of a speaker platform is to stop the vibration generated by the speaker being conveyed to the floor and the reversed vibration back from the floor. Regardless of the material and structure used inside of the board, the vibrations are still conveyed on the surface of the board and this pollutes the reproduced sound from the speaker reducing the overall quality of the sound.
    When using the RST-38H, with its top board floating on natural crystal particles, all of the vibrations from the speaker are absorbed by these particles, thus having a major impact on the sound.
    The crystal particles absorb and eliminate the vibration by changing it into thermal energy.
    Consequently, there is no vibration to the floor and it also avoids the reversed vibration to the speaker. The result is a much improved, clearer sound, giving a higher level of musical enjoyment."
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2017
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