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Damping Mechanical Energy Distortion of STAX and other phones with SORBOTHANE and other materials.

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  1. richard51
    Another confirmation of the optimal value of the duro 70 sorb for me : i replace many  sorbathane pieces  duro 50 and 40 that were under the  granite plate  that are on top of my speakers +3concrete slabs ( i have already  put some days ago 5 pieces of duro 70 under each  speakers with great results)
     
    The replacement made a superlative difference more clarity and definition....I have duro 70 pieces under and on top of my speakers now rightly compressed...The proof is hearing...[​IMG] The result is so evident then my wife (who hate my audio obsession) hears it immediately, is there a need for better proof?
     
    Anywhere on all piece of gear where i put it  sorbothane duro 70 is better than the other duro he replace , the problem is that this 70  duro is more dense and it works really better compressed...But on an headphone 1/4 duro 70 correctly glued is better also than any other duro for me, even not compressed, but better if compressed.[​IMG] 
     
    It is a pity that the message is going out very slowly, for all the  poor audiophile like me sorbothane is miraculous...More precisely  i will say now sorbothane duro 70 rightly applied  is miraculous.
    By the way all my gear now sound superlatively good and i cannot pick one of them et absolutely prefer it to the 2 others, each of  their own potential is optimally stage by the sorb.
      [​IMG] 
     
  2. Quixote79

    does this mean using duro70 and some bricks compressing the cables will reduce microsonics?
     
  3. richard51

    The problem, as i understand it, is that any audio apparatus, amp, dac, power conditioner, speakers, headphone, induce vibrations, and the summation of all these vibrations add in the end  in a specific pattern of resonance,( dependant of the particular interaction of the parts in the specific apparatus) and this  plague the resulting sound with negative resonance and noise ... Sorbothane duro 70, preferably optimally compressed, diminish the noise and  erase this negative resonance resulting of all the parts of the gear interacting and producing probably also  pertubating microvoltage,not only vibrations, weakening acoustics final results  ...The sorbothane is efficient not only for isolating the vibration but for dissipating  a substantial part of it into heat,hence reducing negative resonance and this is the manufacturer affirmation ,not mine, i only experiment the truth of that...
     
    The concrete slabs i put on the gear is for compressing optimally the sorbothane  duro 70 because it is the best  duro for audio but  it is a harder grade duro and if the piece of gear you use with it is too light, that will not do the job, because the duro 70 is a hard one, then using bricks or any load will do the  compressing job...
    About  your question i dont think, no, that to put sorb with brick on a cable will give better result, because there is NO PART vibrating  in a cable, like in a piece of gear....But your question is sarcasm indeed, or is it a serious question?  [​IMG] 
     
    By the way , all my gear is sorbothanized, and i feel less obliged to upgrate at all cost because of insatisfaction,or hype crowd influence, my headphone and speakers give now  to my astounded ears their real potential and that at a very low cost...This is not possible for me without sorbothane...[​IMG] Try it and you will smile at your gear ...
     
  4. edstrelow Contributor

    I am sure what you are doing helps the sound, but I wonder how much is due to the sheer mass of material rather than the compression of sorbothane. Adding mass to components has been around for a long time as a means of reducing microphonic vibrations. I just pulled up a bunch of proprietary brass weights http://shop.mapleshadestore.com/mobile/Hemispherical-Heavyhats/products/106/
    Btw I am not endorsing these products, just pointing out that such things exist. I believe in England there was a fad for putting bricks on top of amplifiers. I assume that vibrational energy dissipates better with more mass in a system.
    So it seems a question to.me as to whether you are getting an effect due to compression of sorbothane, increased mass, or possibly both.
    You could test this either by removing the sorb while leaving the weights in place, or by applying compression of the sorbwith some form of clamp. That would remove mass as a factor.
     
  5. richard51
    Ed it is the two, the mass evidently diminish the destructive power of vibration;But for the optimal  compression of the duro 70, it is evident for me that adding mass is better because this duro is more dense and under a light gear,like amp or dac, his effect are  way less substantial without optimal load ...
     
    By accident i have forgotten one time the load on my gear and with only the sorb. duro 70  the sound was much less good without the load , another time i have put the load but 2 feet of sorb were no more under the dac(or the amp one time or under the power conditioner another time ) and the sound was bad also, i discover the fact in these case after 30 minutes of listening without the habitual pleasure...
     
    For the speakers it was evident because it takes more than a week of adjustment to put the right duro in the first time, after that the right load, i have made the  experiment, and without not only compression, but without the right and optimal compression, the sound was bad and this was evident for me... But Yes adding to the sheer mass is better BUT NOT enough to have a more pleasurable sound like adding 70 duro optimally compressed, it is very easy to verify that yourself...I would not have disconnect my Monsoon compared to the Mission without the sorb duro 70 rightly compressed , without the sorb duro 70 or with only sorb.duro 50 the mission are not superior to the Monsoon. [​IMG] 
     
    P.s. the vendor of the HeavyHats said this : «Even the heaviest gear such as behemoth amplifiers or subwoofers will rarely require more than 10 pounds total weight.» perhaps this is true for heavy gear yes, but the load they recommend (1 to 2 pounds) are not  enough for lighter gear, perhaps for diminishing the vibration but not enough  at all to always rightly compress the sorb, i have more than 20 pounds on each and  all my piece of gear, and this is  not so much  for adding to the mass but to compress the sorb. , this is my reason for putting 45 pounds on top of my speakers ...With more than great results...But for my amplifier sansui of 30 pounds , it was not necessary to put more than 10 pounds to compress the sorb and obtaining a clearer sound, putting more give bad results in  this case, around 20 (dac,  stax amp, energizer, battery charger,poer conditioner) to 45 pounds (speakers) in my experience is enough to compress it optimally...only the speakers demand 45 pounds, more than that the sound is less aery and less clear ...With duro 50 the load must be less, but anyway i dont use no more duro 50 ....
     
    UPDATE: i have now 45 pounds(5 pounds more than previously) on top of my sorbothanized speakers (3 pieces 70 duro inside them around the membrane, 5 pieces 70 duro under them, 7 pieces on top of them under the granite and concrete slabs... the sound is better all across the board, bass and mids are more organic, better imaging because more body to all the spectrum ...I know that  some people will laugh, but the fact is the Mission volare speakers V60 plus sorb. are way better than without sorb.... they are so good that i am no more acrimonius about not being able to buy the magneplanar...[​IMG] 
     
    The sorbothane is not  a one second instantaneous solution, you must experiment  for optimizing his sound effect, for example it takes me many days to discover the right amount of compression of the duro 70 under and on top of my speakers... The results are astounding in 3-d sound effect...The reason probably many people dont go on with the sorb. is that it is not properly implemented...For me from the beginning till today, the road was always for the better with a better effect each time with the same gear or with new gear...And i cannot thanks to much everybody here and Edstrelow particularly...
     
  6. edstrelow Contributor
    How good is sorbothane damping, you may ask. So good that my recently upgraded 30 year old Stax Lambda LNS is outperforming the current Stax SR007A, which is sorbed mostly with what I now know is the less effective 30 duro sorb. The LNS is clear and dynamic across the full frequency spectrum, the 007 less so. It still suffers from a somewhat muddy midbass. Certainly the previous sorb work gave it a big boost over its stock sound. But now with the realization that 1/4 inch, 70 duro, is the way to go, the stakes have been raised.

    Possibly this should come as no surprise. I have had big boosts in the sound quality of even cheap and nasty earbuds but adding bits of sorb.

    I hope that when I complete the conversion of the 007 to 1/4 70, this phone will show a major uptick in performance. Untill I do the work I am just enjoying my super lambda sound.
     
    richard51 likes this.
  7. Henery
    I got my pad of 70 duro sorbothane about two weeks ago. I upgraded my DT 48 E 200 ohm with it. I have to listen some more so i can decide if i need to add more pieces. Also applied 70 duro sorbo to Portapro and again, no audible difference. Next i am going to upgrade HE-500 and then DT 480.
     
    DT48sorbo1.jpg
     
    I used rubberband to apply compression to sorbo piece. I sliced these diagonally in half.
     
    DT48sorbo2.jpg
     
    Each piece was cutted horizontally in four sections. If you look carefully, you can see those cut marks. I have to figure out how apply compression on those.
     
    nick n likes this.
  8. edstrelow Contributor
    I am curious about the portapro.  Where would you even add sorbothane?  Possibly you can post a picture?
     
  9. richard51
    My experiment with  cutting little piece of sorb were made with other duro than the 70 duro on my he 400... Now i will use ONLY 70 duro....Not too big piece, not too litttle....i compress the sorbothane duro 70 along the headband of the Stax lambda and at the end of the headband of the SR-5..On the he 400 i will not compress it.... No headphone is similar, you must experiment for yourself...The only absolute rule for me now is duro 70, and for my other gear(speakers, power conditioner, amplifier) compressing it give better results, but too much compressing will compress the sound also, hence the optimal compression is result of each of us  particular experiment...No 2 headphones benefit of the sorbothane at the same level , because no headphone is similar to other one...[​IMG] 
     
  10. Henery
    Portapro_sorbo.jpg
     
    Porta_Pro_no_dome.jpg
     
  11. edstrelow Contributor
    Quote:Looks like this might work.  I assume the sorb is self-stick?  I had good results some time back with a cheap set of earbuds. 102_34232.jpg  
     
  12. richard51
    i am always astounded to this day by the finetuning experiment going on with sorbothane in my system... I change the 1/10 sorbothane sheets under my dac with a 1/8 thick sheets (always duro 70) and the result with the optimall compression  give me another audio bliss...(finetuning the right amount of compression is not possible in one attempt, for example only 5 pounds more or less destruct the imaging, hence you must experiment).
     
    The reason that sorb is so efficient in audio , i think, is that the high quality audiophile of the duro 70 is probably the results of the right combination between the 3 factors of an equation:  rate of absorption= transmission + dissipation of vibrations...Sorbothane duro 70  do not isolate only from vibration like many other products but dissipate them at the right time and speed, isolating also from the room resonance and not only from the internal resonance of the gear, hence decoupling the 2 set of vibrations,hence erasing some negative resonance between the 2 ... We need an engineer ...But for now my ear need only music...[​IMG] 
     
    UPDATE-1
    I have put 6 squares glued pieces of sorb duro 70 on the exterior cups of my SR-5 + 6 or 7 pieces pieces under the earpad i have already with the  4 on  each side of the headband compressed... I dont know what to say...So extraordinary headphone now....I am not very curious now to buy another headphone (thousand of dollars to beat perhaps the SR-5, the so natural sound of this phone eclipse my lambda sorbothanized, and i am amazed and grateful for this thread....
     
     
    Update-2: this update is a violation of the subject matter of this thread, please read it with caution et dont throw me to the moderator  jaws because i am far from the headphone matter...I put  wrapping pieces of foam plates or cutted  wrapping  styrefoam  boxes from all the audio products i have bought within  the last 3 years on 2 of my  listening room walls,  in  small squares and 12  new bought cheap  foam pannels  disposed asymmetrically,2 directly behind the  ported speakers(in my first attempt i put only few panels of foam and that was good but not ideal hence i bought some new foam) the result was ACOUSTIC remedy of my room and the results are very surprizing for me and very audible and no less extraordinary than the right use of sorbothane...Conclusion: Vibrations and destructive resonance are the 2 plagues of the Audio world...And the remedies exist at NO COST or almost...
     
    Yes some companies sell very expansive product for isolating from vibrations, BUT what product is more  cheap and more efficient than sorbothane duro 70 for that ? Please tell me...
    There is some companies  that sell room treatment , very expansive products,the poor audiophile like me is supposed to wait for some money! NO I take this challenge in my own hand! I decide to experiment with cheap foam wrap box of my past  audio purchase, cutted in square,  asymmetrically putted together ,glued to  the walls of my room and behind the speakers .... Guess what?  i was very pleased, the metallic resonance of my room (height 7 feet 8 inches,widht11 feet,lenght 11 feet )is gone, the musical timbre of the sound more rich, the bass more present, the imaging better, at NO COST...I must say that this self-taught lesson in room treatment was an eye opening experiment at the level of understanding of my sorbothane journey... We must listen by ourselves to teach ourselves by ourselves, no amount of money will do that!
     
    DSCF1771.jpg
     
     
     
    P.S. The mission v60 speakers with the sorbothane but also with  this new essential  foam room treatment are so good that i almost regret to have ordered this morning  a Miller and Kreisel k-9 subwoofer... The bass of the Mission is now almost sufficient for music ... But it will certainly be better with a musical sub (100 dollars paid) +compressed sorb. under and on top of it...This will be my last expense for sometime with no regret now... When the sound is gorgeous why going on with the upgrading obsession... I am interested to buy better for sure but what will be the price to my next upgrade ? Certainly 6 thousand dollars( i have calculated that !) to really beat my actual used system with really better gear....except for the headphone SR-5. i cannot think that it will be possible to beat his natural timbre sounding organic and fluid  ethereal mids under one thousand dollars... Perhaps the Stax L700 will do the job ,for the soundstage i trust the reviewer because my lambda have a better soundstage already but for the naturality of the sound i have doubts...[​IMG] 
     
    Ok we come back to the headphone  sorbothane thread and i apologize for my rant...[​IMG] 
     
  13. saidentary
    Richard51: I still have the Fostex TH-7BB headphones and haven't forgotten about this.  But so far there hasn't been any time even to listen to music at all.  At some point I hope to do it.
     
  14. richard51
    My salutations to you....i hope you enjoy it, for the price it is a very good headphone... It is the one of my headphone that upgrade the less  though with the sorb. but i have not try the sorbothane duro 70 on it....[​IMG] 
     
  15. Jaab
    I bought the Koss ESP950, few days ago and checking in its head-fi thread I saw your id
    Do you always have the headphone? And have you tried to use sorb in it?
     
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