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I think one should take a comparison post from someone who doesn't own and has never heard a 3SE or any of the musical series with a grain of salt. I can compare the 3SE to the 19mk3 and the 3SE is more accurate, less coloration, better realism, deeper bass, most improtantly better imaging.
What you are saying is pretty obvious: those who have never heard the 3SE are only speculating.
BTW, at no time, I said that when they are used in the same system (with the same accesories) the dac3se (with PMD100) wasn't better than the dac19mk3 (with PMD100).
This thread is about comparing the dac19dsp (which you haven't heard) against the dac3se(which I haven't heard).
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I disagree that the PMD100 is lacking, it is still the standard. The top studios are paying for Pacific Microsonic equipment with blood, you literally have to know someone to even get a chance to buy one.
The PMD100 was perhaps the standard 15 years ago but saying that a filter that is limited to 24/55 is the "standard" in the age of high rez data is something that can be challenged pretty easily. I understand that there might be good things produced in the past (such as the PCM1704uk) but one shouldn't be totally closed to progress.
The edge that the PMD100 had over other filters in its time was that, among other things, through some "trickery" in the HDCD decoding it could capture some transients that were otherwise discarded by 44.1 khz sampling. It is pretty much non relevant when high rez audio is far more availble than HDCD today.
For those who can hear a difference between digital filters, the DSP-1 is
radically better than the PMD100. When comparing the PMD100 vs. DF1704 it was a matter of choice and sonic preferences. When comparing the DSP-1 vs. PMD100, it is a matter of superiority vs. inferiority.
What you are saying about the Pacific Microsonics Model 2 is true: it is a well sought after DAC/ADC by the top studios. However, and as you know, there is more that go into making a DAC/ADC than the digital filters: dac chips, power supply, transistors,... I believe that the Pacific Microsonics is rumored to be so good (and unrivalled) because it used some high speed transistors that are no longer in production. What made it so special wasn't the digital filter but all the surrounding components.
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There is one rule with most all audio equipment that has stood the test of time, power supply is everything. And the 3SE just plain has about 10 lbs worth of a better power supply than the Dac19 with all the regulators biased into class A, its no wonder the bass has more authority and accuracy.
I agree that power supply is very important. If someone doesn't intend to use "outside" power filtration, the 3SE is a no brainer.
The difference between the dac19 used with stock power cord and without power filter and with the dac19 used with a PowertransPlus power cord and Bada filter was staggering. The improvement in resolution, imaging, low level details, bass depth, treble purity and extension was bigger than a component change (bigger than when moving from the hd650 to the T1s on certain aspects).
With the untreated dac19, you get a slightly fuzzy painting of the event. With the treated dac19 you get a crystal clear view to the event: you are in the event.
If there is one fault with the dac19 is that it is overly sensitive to external factors (and especially the power supply). I have a friend who has an Audiomat PCM1704 based DAC which uses a huge power supply section: 200.000 uF vs. 40.000 uF for the dac3SE. With his DAC we were unable to notice any change when plugging it with an "upgrade" power cord into a power filter. In fact, we even felt that it degraded slightly the sound quality. However, both my DAC and his tubed power amps benefited a lot from an "improvement" in the power supply filtration.
Of course, ideally, all components should have as much power supply filtration as possible inside: that way we shouldn't have to worry about "matching" power cords and power filters. Meanwhile, having a very sensitive component such as the dac19dsp allow you to "tailor" the sound signature by means of trying different cords and power filters.
BTW, I was very lucky to live close to a store that allowed me to borrow different cables for a week before making my purchase decision. In fact, they even let me keep a power cord for 15 days before I decided to return it to them. That way, you avoid the "pressure" of liking something because you are stuck with it.
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As far as Muscial vs Neutral, this desciption is IMO Kingwa's lack of english finesse. Best description would be Audiophile vs Studio. What I have heard of the neutral series is similiar to studio monitor speakers, the analog filter ( low pass crossover) is set for best frequency response at the sacrifice of phase accuracy. Its the old argument of higher order crossovers versus lower order crossovers in speakers. I have always found the lower order crossovers to be more natural if the drivers can remain accurate, this is typical of most audiophiles who would prefer single range driver to a 4 way speaker.
Many times Kingwa said that the Musical series made the recordings
slighlty sweeter and better sounding than they actually are. I don't th ink it is a matter of English finesse as you are implying.
Keep in mind that you can't base your opinion on what the neutral series sound from the dac19mk3 (w/PMD100) with a stock cable and plugged without a power filter. During his development, Kingwa uses his special power cords and his power filters. If they had no effect on the final result, he wouldn't be selling them. Keep also in mind that the neutral series are designed to be paired with the neutral amps through the ACSS connection. That is why I decided to do a review of the dac19dsp+C2 instead of the dac19dsp alone. There are even measurable difference in frequency extension and THD between the 2 modes of connections, the ACSS path being the purest.
The Neutral series are finally designed to be "colorless", so the sound signature you are hearing is pretty much that of the interconnects. There is a very big difference when moving from the entry level pure copper Kimber PBJ to the Pure silver Artisan Silver Cables.
So far, most people who have tried swapping interconnects or power cords/filtration have been surprised about the degree of improvement it provides.
There is one more point regarding the dsp-1: It has jumpers that allow you to "tailor" the sound: by choosing different pass band setting (50db, 90db, 130db), you get something similar to moving from low order to high order crossovers.
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Originally Posted by
regal 
Another advantage is there is less distortion from the PCM1704's because on the 3SE and the other Musical series, the I/V stage has a small amount of NFB. This reduces distortion and presents a lower ohm load on the DAC chip. I don't like NFB any more than the next guy but in this case it works well as it is a small amount kept local where critial (DAC output.)
The negative to the Musical series is the output impedance appears fairly high for SS, I would make sure the amp it drives has an input impedance of at least 10k ohms for best results.
You are comparing apples to oranges. The filtering in the neutral series is done in the current domain while it is done the voltage domain in the musical series. The filtering/operations in the current domain are inherently more linear and do not require NFB to lower the distortion. If you look at the specs of the TOTL DACs from A-GD: the Ref-7 has SNR from XLR of 121 db and the "Musical" Ref8 has SNR of 116. So the fact that the Ref7 uses zero negative feedback doesn't compromise its measured performance (it is quieter than the Musical series).
In any case, I don't usually care about the measured performance (as long as they are reasonable) and I prefer to rely on my ears. And my ears tell me the ACSS output stage of the dac19dsp is very transparent and neutral sounding.
Is it always a good thing? No, because it exposes the flaws of the recordings, especially when using transparent headphones such as the Beyer T1s. Would a little "sweetening" make the dac19dsp sound more natural on most average recordings? Probably yes. Will it rob the best recordings from what make them so special: It might.
