[VocaloidDude]

I need, specifically, a DAC with balanced outputs, which is only a DAC, not a DAC/AMP, which is tonally neutral. The last DAC I had, the Gungnir, literally made every piece of equipment burn my ears after prolonged periods of use because it was so bright. Whatever I have needs to work co-operatively with studio monitor quality equipment for music listening. These are some of the most revealing pieces of equipment, so they need laid back, neutral, uncolored DACs.

If anyone knows anything which meets the criteria:

- Neutral, uncolored, laid back and forgiving (unlike the brightness of the Schiit Gungnir), a good match for Sennheiser HDVA600 AMP and Sennheiser HD800 headphones, and Neumann KH120 A speakers

- USB capable with balanced and aux outputs (preferably fiber optic inputs too)

- less than 500 dollars

If anyone knows something which fits this criteria, please let me know.

 

[Baten]

What do you mean, DAC not amp with balanced inputs?

I think the JDS EL Dac would fit your bill but it's not balanced output.. better but much pricier and balanced, at $650 with Jensen transformers on the XLR output: https://www.gieseler.com.au/product-page/m16d-klein-dac-iii


What might be even better would be some good R2R DAC, but no way you get a balanced R2R at $500. Does not exist.

 

[Charente]

I've just ordered a Metrum Acoustics Flint ... R2R NOS DAC (399 euros ... not sure what the usd landed price is). It's reportedly a neutral/smooth DAC ... but not balanced ... that might be tricky within your budget.

 

[VocaloidDude]

What do you mean, DAC not amp with balanced inputs?

I think the JDS EL Dac would fit your bill but it's not balanced output.. better but much pricier and balanced, at $650 with Jensen transformers on the XLR output: https://www.gieseler.com.au/product-page/m16d-klein-dac-iii


What might be even better would be some good R2R DAC, but no way you get a balanced R2R at $500. Does not exist.

Yeah, sorry I was conflating my pre-amp and my DAC in my mind, I didn't mean to say balanced inputs. I just wasn't thinking very hard when I said that specific detail.

 

[VocaloidDude]

The Klein DAC looks like a keeper. After the Gungnir ear burning coloration fiasco, I would hope that something in the same ballpark of price as the Gungnir could perform better. It certainly has a less austentatious, business only look to it, which I would hope foreshadows a more serious and balanced sound, which won't make certain frequencies accentuated to silliness like the Gungnir. But I can only assume based on looks, and there's not much info on the site about how it actually sounds.

 

[Baten]

The Klein DAC looks like a keeper. After the Gungnir ear burning coloration fiasco, I would hope that something in the same ballpark of price as the Gungnir could perform better. It certainly has a less austentatious, business only look to it, which I would hope foreshadows a more serious and balanced sound, which won't make certain frequencies accentuated to silliness like the Gungnir. But I can only assume based on looks, and there's not much info on the site about how it actually sounds.

For one thing I'm a big, big fan of how transformers shape the sound. If it sounds anything like my jensen iso-max in my own home-setup it will result in a very balanced sound.

For absolute laid-back sound an R2R might be good though, the Flint above is supposedly good. One thing about the flint, it is built standard with their older chips which is kinda lame. You can get Flint special ordered with Dac Two chips which are supposedly a big improvement. But that ups the price again, and it's still unbalanced making the Klein seem like a lot better value..

But a well-implemented AKM dac with the velvet sound goodness is great too. Doesn't need to be R2R. I have owned an EL Dac in the past and actually sold it since it sounded a little too 'soft' to me. If that is what you want as sound and can live with single ended output, the EL Dac is great. I see there is one at $209 b-stock. That is just stupidly well priced. https://jdslabs.com/shop/?category=bstock

 

[Charente]

Yes, the DAC TWO upgrade cost me 100 euros more, so 499 euros in all.

 

[VocaloidDude]

For one thing I'm a big, big fan of how transformers shape the sound. If it sounds anything like my jensen iso-max in my own home-setup it will result in a very balanced sound.

For absolute laid-back sound an R2R might be good though, the Flint above is supposedly good. One thing about the flint, it is built standard with their older chips which is kinda lame. You can get Flint special ordered with Dac Two chips which are supposedly a big improvement. But that ups the price again, and it's still unbalanced making the Klein seem like a lot better value..

But a well-implemented AKM dac with the velvet sound goodness is great too. Doesn't need to be R2R. I have owned an EL Dac in the past and actually sold it since it sounded a little too 'soft' to me. If that is what you want as sound and can live with single ended output, the EL Dac is great. I see there is one at $209 b-stock. That is just stupidly well priced. https://jdslabs.com/shop/?category=bstock

I have no idea what you're talking about when you say R2R. I googled it and nothing came up.

 

[Charente]

Essentially a type of DAC architecture ... http://sw1xad.co.uk/technology_post/delta-sigma-vs-non-oversampling-r2r-dac-designs/ ...

 

[Baten]

I have no idea what you're talking about when you say R2R. I googled it and nothing came up.

R2R, resistor ladder, multibit. I'm not saying it is "better" than traditional DAC but it tends to have a softer sound which seems to be what you are looking for. But of course, modern DACs can also sound laid-back so I'm not saying you have to buy boutique ladder dac to get the sound you are looking for, since they are often low supply, non-mass produced products they are expensive...

Yes, the DAC TWO upgrade cost me 100 euros more, so 499 euros in all.

Lol I didn't realise I linked to a post of yours. Coincidence

 

[maxxevv]

Quite often, the so called " brightness" and "glare" from DAC's and Amps is a direct result of distortions in the output from these devices. The HD800 is very revealing, any distortion or bad output is gonna show up on them.

I would suggest the SMSL SU-8. with firmware 1.3 or later (as the mainboard has been updated too). Very well measuring and by most accounts, no obvious coloration. Has XLR outputs and a bonus remote to go along with it.
Best part, comes in at half your budget.

 

[VocaloidDude]

Quite often, the so called " brightness" and "glare" from DAC's and Amps is a direct result of distortions in the output from these devices. The HD800 is very revealing, any distortion or bad output is gonna show up on them.

I would suggest the SMSL SU-8. with firmware 1.3 or later (as the mainboard has been updated too). Very well measuring and by most accounts, no obvious coloration. Has XLR outputs and a bonus remote to go along with it.
Best part, comes in at half your budget.

I would have already bought this if it weren't for the fact that it has controls which can only work if you use the remote. What I worry about is I'll lose the remote, and then there will be functions of the dac which I'll no longer be able to use. I think it was a very cheap move by them to not have integrated controls on the front of the dac to replace the remote if you lose it.

 

[Zer0.p0int.Zer0]

the Gungnir, literally made every piece of equipment burn my ears after prolonged periods of use because it was so bright.

I have never listened to Gungnir, but based on my experience with other Schiit DACs (ModiMB, Bifrost 4490, BifrostMB, Yggy), it sounds like something is wrong.
Did you ask Schiit about it?

 

[VocaloidDude]

I have never listened to Gungnir, but based on my experience with other Schiit DACs (ModiMB, Bifrost 4490, BifrostMB, Yggy), it sounds like something is wrong.
Did you ask Schiit about it?

It was a used DAC. Best that I returned it, I should have bought directly from Schiit in the first place.

 

[Spareribs]

I probably would choose one of those Topping DACs that cost a few hundred dollars. They get good reviews