[JackyD]

G'day all.

I've been lurking around Head-Fi for a few days now researching different ways to drive my new set of AD700s. They're my first attempt at breaking into the realm of Hi-Fi, and, obviously, onboard audio just won't cut it. As soon as my GPU draws power I'm met with constant stream of noise, annoying in games, even more so when I drag a window around the desktop.

My typical usage will be music, games, tv/movies (listed by priority) and I'm not looking to spend too much. (Yes, I realise the disparity between a laymen's understanding of 'too much' and the typical Head-Fi member's interpretation)

Anyhoo, I'm aware that with the AD700s 32ohm impedance they're very easy to drive, so I find myself somewhat confused. Should I really be looking to buy a discrete amp? I have no intention of buying any new headphones for awhile, so if I find I need one in the future I'll cross that bridge when I get to it. Is it enough to simply use a dac? Or perhaps an entry level combination of the two?

I have no intention of buying a dedicated PCI(-e) soundcard at this point because I was driven to look for an external source because of the electrical storm within my PC case that makes my on board sound so unbearable.

I believe (at least at the entry level) that differences between products greater than usd$150 become somewhat esoteric and to be quite frank my ears haven't been trained just yet and 50% of the reason I bought the AD700s was price (USD$86!), 30% comfort (first cans that didn't crush my head) and 20% SQ.

tl;dr, Do I need an amp to drive my AD700s? Is a DAC (with volume control? does that make it an amp?) enough to drive them? What kind of external source can you recommend to someone on a budget, ideally ~AUD$150

Things driven entirely by USB (no need for a wall wart) are a plus, but of course not a necessity.

(going overseas in a few months, saving

)

Cheers,
JackyD

[edit]

My motherboard has SPDIF out, before someone asks.

 

[JackyD]

AUDIOTRAK Prodigy CUBE External USB Sound Card - eBay (item 120482346125 end time Nov-17-09 16:37:15 PST)

This is what I've been eyeing... Thoughts?

 

[dishkyun]

1. HiFiMAN EF2 USB Headphone Amplifier

2. iBasso D10 Cobra

 

[Currawong]

The Audiotrack unfortunately was very noisy over USB and has a rather poor headphone amp, but that's what you get for your $100 or so.

 

[the chemist]

I would look at the HRT music streamer DAC from music direct

 

[gevorg]

For ~$150 you can get a nice entry-level audiophile system, especially for easy to drive headphones like AD700. Going the pro-audio route will give you the best bang for your buck. Many USB or Firewire interfaces have decent built-in amps for easy to drive headphones, like EMU 0202 USB and Tascam US-144 MKII. Also, most of these have very good USB DAC implementations (like async 24/96), unlike similarly priced audiophile gear that use crappy PCM270x chips.

Note that most of these external interfaces do not support gaming features like EAX 4.0. If this is important for you, then checkout internal PCI soundcards from Asus, HT Omega, etc.

 

[jisu]

what about the Musiland 02US?

 

[JackyD]

Thanks for all the responses guys.

EAX isn't a big deal to me, my onboard sound only supports up to 2.0. FWIW, if I bought a DAC that had optical in and used my onboard optical out would I still be able to utilise the limited EAX support I already have? I realise this would sacrifice the USB part, but that isn't a big deal either.

Cheers,
JackyD

 

[beowulf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JackyD /img/forum/go_quote.gif As soon as my GPU draws power I'm met with constant stream of noise, annoying in games, even more so when I drag a window around the desktop. I have no intention of buying a dedicated PCI(-e) soundcard at this point because I was driven to look for an external source because of the electrical storm within my PC case that makes my on board sound so unbearable. .

Be careful with this idea as I've been thru the same. I use onboard audio both on my desktop (asus motherboard) and laptops and got tired of the constant hiss... amping noise, hearing hard drives, etc. (only for normal stereo sound with headphones, which is all I listen to with the pcs)

I ended up buying an external DAC/amp solution (Meier Corda Move) that cost me around 250 Euros but found out that I can still hear hissing and noise... it is better but not perfect... if your source is noisy, you'll still get noise in the output, even with the USB. Silence is still not dark and flat as with a standalone amp (my reference was an old NAD 340). My desktop is noisy, my Dell laptop is VERY noisy and an Asus 1000H netbook I had was outstandingly quiet... all using the same Corda Move. it improved, but didn't solve the problem.

Using an external powered USB hub also helped a bit but still far from perfect.

This is a lot more obvious using low impedance headphones like the Mylar X3 (any noise is heard). I do not notice it as much with my Koss Portapro (but still audible) or the Sony CD3000.

I suspect that many PCI internal cards end up providing a better solution... but if anyone suggest a really good USB DAC that can provide this flat, quiet silence I'd like, I'd love to know about it.

 

[FraGGleR]

The AD700's don't need any amping, so I would say the amp is secondary to a solid DAC. If you don't want to outlay a lot of money and dip your toe into this stuff, a Nuforce Icon Mobile might be a nice choice. I am in a similar boat as you and ended up getting a Headroom Total Bithead to hook up to my computer (got mine second hand under $100). For me, both my computer (home built) and laptop (Fujitsu tablet), have almost no noise through the USB. I got a nice improvement on clarity and extension with the Bithead DAC. Not sure if I got much from the amp, but certainly, I get top notch sound now compared to directly out of my computers.

It came down to the Nuforce and the Bithead primarily because they both have dual headphone jacks so I can plug my powered computer speakers into it in addition to my headphones. I think you will definitely find an improvement with even these entry level units. I don't if I would spend too much since you have the AD700's. Buy for what you have now, unless you are going definitely going to upgrade your headphones soon.

For $150, you can try the Aune MkII found on ebay. There is a long thread in the dedicated source component section with a number of happy owners. The EF2 at a little over $200 shipped gets rave reviews as a combo device, but is a much better amp (especially if you want to try tubes) than it is a DAC. It is DAC is very entry level (doesn't sound bad, though) and I am not sure if it is any better than the DAC on the Nuforce Icon Mobile or the Bithead.

Search for Headphoneaddict's review of portable dac/amps for some guidance. Most are out of the entry level price range, but he does talk about the Nuforce Icon Mobile and how it compares to some much more expensive DAC's.

Nothing that I have suggested outside of the Aune takes optical, although at this budget level, I don't know if you will notice a difference between optical and usb.

And to clarify, you can't listen to just a DAC, you will need one that has a headamp built in or buy a separate amp (again not necessarily needed for you headphones. You really are just trying to remove your DAC from the noisy insides of your computer and almost any usb dac you get will be an improvement over your computer sound (literally almost any).

 

[JackyD]

Thanks for the detailed responses guys.

My noise problem isn't huge. It's a very low hum thats really only audible if there isnt much else going on (low volume, silent areas in game) and it really only bugs me when songs are fading out and, like i said, a quiet part in a game.

I'll keep looking around

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Have you tried a different electrical outlet? The hum could be your AC and an outboard DAC wouldn't fix that unless you plugged it in somewhere else. It could be noise inside your computer, but not necessarily. I plug AD700s straight into a laptop often and it sounds good, and quiet. That setup isn't quite as good as my Senns into a dedicated amp, but it is still quite good.

P

 

[vedran70]

Is it really noise the only issue with onboard audio? For example, I'm using onboard audio on my HP NX7400 notebook at home and on HP DX7400 desktop at work and I can't hear any noise or hum or hiss or anything on 100% volume. Total silence. I only hear noise from older tape mastered records. I can even hear noise from particular mikes switching on and off. Is newer computer equipment so evolved or I'm going deaf?

 

[beowulf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vedran70 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Is it really noise the only issue with onboard audio? For example, I'm using onboard audio on my HP NX7400 notebook at home and on HP DX7400 desktop at work and I can't hear any noise or hum or hiss or anything on 100% volume. Total silence. I only hear noise from older tape mastered records. I can even hear noise from particular mikes switching on and off. Is newer computer equipment so evolved or I'm going deaf?

It depends on the hardware. Like I said, I have 3 laptops at home and 2 desktops.
1 laptop is horribly noisy (Dell D630), the other is moderately noisy (a Toshiba) and the little Asus 1000H is totally quiet. There are also differences between different desktop setups.

I guess it depends on several factors... motherboard quality, power supply, AC outlet, cases, etc.

The hiss and hum on the Dell I have to use at work drive me crazy with the Mylar X3 ,even on the Corda...

 

[JackyD]

Okay, I'm pretty stupid.

It was the front audio port. I probably should have specified this. I've even had this problem before with my other headphones.

I'm guessing due the all the EM interference in the box, a little crap is induced on the cable/circuitry that connect to the front audio jack. FWIW, the volume level on the PC didn't affect the noise, just 3D acceleration.

I've since plugged directly into the back and haven't looked back.

I still intend to pick up a combined dac/amp soon though!

Thanks for all the feedback, Head-Fi'ers

JackyD