[bangraman]

Quote:

Originally posted by Joe Bloggs mm hmm so how much more efficient and sensitive is that than the ER4P?

Superbaldguy listed the rated efficiency of ER-4P. The E5 is rated at 122db/mw. These are crazily efficient. For many of my phones, most of my portables are set somewhere inbetween 75-90% of the available volume. With the E5 I rarely venture beyond 40%. I've got into the habit of playing music before I stick the E5 in my ears as if I have it at the volume for my other phones and press play, I end up in pain until I can frantically grab the volume control

 

[Joe Bloggs]

Why would you get in such a habit

 

[Duncan]

For earbuds and streetstyles, there is the headphone out... for everything else, theres the META42

...Luckily, my old school collection has relatively powerful outputs, so I'm not too bothered... not until they all die

 

[Eagle_Driver]

Ugh, speaking of StreetStyles, that 0.5mW European D-EJ2000 has a lot of trouble driving the MDR-G52 StreetStyles - those particular StreetStyles are much less efficient than their specs would seem to indicate. In fact, they're very inefficient for such cheap, crappy-sounding headphones.

 

[Superbaldguy]

Sony's claims on sensitivity are exaggerated almost every time. I mean, my Q55SL's are rated for 104 dB @ 1 mW, and I'd say they do well to get the same output as the KSC-35's (101 dB), or even less. However, 888's are quite snappy, probably close to their 108 dB rating.

 

[D555]

Unless someone is presently going deaf I find that with 5mw and EX-71's (rated at 100db sensitivity) there is good control of volume between 20 and 50%. Above 60% or so and, in my opinion, someone is heading for deafness. With insanely sensitive headphone/earphones, there are two settings: nothing and too loud. I don't see the point of having it that way. I'm beyond the age where my mom says: "turn that crap down", now I just see the wisdom of those words. I don't want to be selectively tone deaf when I'm 50 -- I enjoy my music too much.

 

[Eagle_Driver]

Okay, I tried running RightMark on two of the recent high-end Sony CD Walkman players: the US-market D-EJ1000 and the US-market D-EJ2000. Both had pretty good dynamic range figures - but both had very erratic frequency-response curves, with one frequency testing up to 40dB higher than a nearby frequency within the same curve. (In other words, the graphs for both models are unreliable.) And the other tests also turned out unreliable results, as well, with some readings vary wildly from one testing run to the next. I knew that my D-EJ1000 distorted at about 60% of maximum volume.

I also ran RightMark on my slightly older, middle-of-the-line Sony D-EJ721, and the noise, THD and IMD results are also unreliable. At least I was able to obtain a frequency response curve for the D-EJ721: The highs roll off very sharply in this Sony, compared to either my Panasonics or my iRiver iMP-350.

Keep in mind that those tests were based on the output from the headphone jacks, not the line-outs.

ADDENDUM: I actually listened to the D-EJ2000 (US model), and despite the troubles that I had in testing it with RightMark I can definitely tell that it sounds clearer and more detailed than the dull, muddy-sounding D-EJ1000 and D-EJ721. Very close in sound quality to those "good" recent-model Panasonic players, such as the famous SL-CT570.

 

[Joe Bloggs]

Eh? What is this RightMark thing?

 

[D555]

Hello Eagle Driver,

What are the conditions of your testing?

Here are mine:

PCDP:
1. No EQ whatsoever
2. Headphone out on PCDP (headphone out on the wired remote, if applicable)
3. Battery power

Computer:
1. Creative Audigy 2
2. No EQ

Connection:
Shielded mini 3.5mm stereo cable dirctly to the card line in jack (no front panel computer jack used). Gold plated plugs for those who may care.

When I say "essentially flat", I'm giving about +/-0.2dB leeway. These PCDP are not laboratory devices and I'm not expecting laboratory performane. My setup isn't exact science either so I just do the best I care to afford to and the amount of time I want to spend.

I do know that the more I practice with RightMark the better I get at using it and getting a feeling that, perhaps, I am getting semi-accurate results.

Paul

 

[Eagle_Driver]

Oh, I got the settings wrong on my soundcard.

Here are my revised RightMark results for my three Sony CD Walkman players (all three of which are official US-market versions):

D-EJ721:
Frequency response (40-15,000 Hz), dB: +0.67, -4.70
Noise level, dBA: -90.5
Dynamic range, dBA: 90.0
THD, %: 0.319
IM distortion, %: 0.217
Stereo crosstalk, dB: -66.6

D-EJ1000:
Frequency response (40-15,000 Hz), dB: +1.16, -6.49
Noise level, dBA: -92.0
Dynamic range, dBA: 91.5
THD, %: 0.088
IM distortion, %: 0.183
Stereo crosstalk, dB: -65.4

D-EJ2000:
Frequency response (40-15,000 Hz), dB: +0.08, -0.55
Noise level, dBA: -90.8
Dynamic range, dBA: 90.5
THD, %: 0.174
IM distortion, %: 0.209
Stereo crosstalk, dB: -66.1

All of those results were from the headphone out of these Sonys, with their G-Protection switches set to their minimum settings and their volume controls set to 90% of maximum volume. Also, any EQ settings were defeated during these tests, and the players were run off of batteries.

The frequency response graphs do show a pronounced roll-off in the treble from the D-EJ721, while the D-EJ1000 starts rolling off even sooner! (That is, the D-EJ1000, for all practical purposes, couldn't even reproduce 15kHz.) The response curve for the D-EJ2000, on the other hand, is remarkably close to those of the good-sounding recent Panasonic PCDPs, such as the SL-CT470 and SL-CT570 - although the D-EJ2000 has slightly better treble (top-end) extension and better dynamic range than those "good" Panasonics.

No wonder why the D-EJ1000 sucks even worse than the cheaper D-EJ721 form the headphone out! What a disappointment the D-EJ1000 was/is - for its high price!

Quote:

Originally posted by D555 Hello Eagle Driver, What are the conditions of your testing? Here are mine: PCDP: 1. No EQ whatsoever 2. Headphone out on PCDP (headphone out on the wired remote, if applicable) 3. Battery power Computer: 1. Creative Audigy 2 2. No EQ Connection: Shielded mini 3.5mm stereo cable dirctly to the card line in jack (no front panel computer jack used). Gold plated plugs for those who may care. When I say "essentially flat", I'm giving about +/-0.2dB leeway. These PCDP are not laboratory devices and I'm not expecting laboratory performane. My setup isn't exact science either so I just do the best I care to afford to and the amount of time I want to spend. I do know that the more I practice with RightMark the better I get at using it and getting a feeling that, perhaps, I am getting semi-accurate results. Paul

 

[D555]

Hello Eagle Driver,

Thanks for your results!

The measurements for the D-EJ1000 reveal a real problem in the the high frequencies. Even my headphone LPF mod didn't bring it up to D-EJ2000 standards. Peter offered a revised filter which I have yet to try. It must have been a design defect. Can't imagine purposefully having such a rolloff. Notice the D-EJ2000 corrected that flaw. Sony must have noticed.

How far down was the D-EJ1000 at 18khz and 20khz?

Paul

 

[Eagle_Driver]

Paul (D555),

Normalized to the response at 1kHz, the D-EJ1000's frequency response at 18kHz is about -9dB down from the 1kHz reference point. At 20kHz, that response is nearly -10dB down.

The D-EJ2000, on the other hand, the response at 18kHz is only -0.85dB down from the response at 1kHz, while the response at 20kHz is only about -1.5dB down.

The older, cheaper D-EJ721 is closer to the D-EJ1000 than the D-EJ2000 in frequency response, being down -6.7dB at 18kHz and nearly -8dB down at 20kHz.

Taking the -3dB roll-off points, only the D-EJ2000 (of these three) extends to at least 20kHz in top-end extension. The D-EJ721 barely extends past 10kHz, while the D-EJ1000 had trouble reaching 7kHz!

 

[PeterR]

Quote:

only the D-EJ2000 (of these three) extends to at least 20kHz

which is all you could ask from a red book CD player...
Good to hear Sony's coming to their senses....

 

[blr]

All this is great, but with the European EJ2000 c(r)apped to 0.5 mW the headphone jack is basically useless. It couldn't power V6 at all and even PX100 was not well driven.
I wouldn't get a player that can power only 16 ohms earbuds.

 

[PeterR]

Quote:

Originally posted by blr All this is great, but with the European EJ2000 c(r)apped to 0.5 mW the headphone jack is basically useless. It couldn't power V6 at all and even PX100 was not well driven. I wouldn't get a player that can power only 16 ohms earbuds.

Well, blame the French, not Sony - guess we'll have to buy overseas.
Or somebody gets a service manual so we could see whether there's an easy way to restore it to original specs...