[Tom Drinkwater]

Hi, I've been reading this forum to try to determine the best custom fit IEMs for me to perform with, if they are also good as listening phones so much the better, but performance monitoring is the main use.

I'm new to IEMs. I have had custom fitted musicians earplugs before, but I have always prefferred over ear headphones in the studio and for listening, however IEMs seem to be necessary for stage use.

sound quality - better is good, but I'm quite happy with my AKG K271 closed circumaural studio tracking phones for quality, if that helps to give a reference.

From my reading on this forum and elsewhere I'm now considering livewire, the freQ Show and the westone ES2.

price is an issue, but I'll spend whatever I need to to get it right, if I can be convinced that I actually do need to...

I'm mystified that most custom IEMs seem to use hard plastic shells! surely silicone would both seal better and be more comfortable? As a singer the seal has to remain sealed, free of friction noise, and comfortable through all sorts of facial contortions, and I'm unimpressed with my hard acrylic custom earplugs in this respect. The ear moves a lot while singing and seems to me the mold should move with it. Theres a few soft silcon IEMs out there, but they don't seem to be the frontrunners? whats going on with that?

has anyone got any 2 or all 3 of the above IEMs and can give me a comparative assessment of the differences?

what do performing musicians think about hard acrylic earmolds and singing for fit and comfort?

has anyone tried both soft silicon IEMs and hard acrylic? what are the relative strengths?

thanks!

Tom

 

[ClieOS]

The two IEM companies the do specialize in soft silicone mold are Sensaphonics and ACS (U.K.) milkpowder is the only member I know that owned both.

 

[WalkGood]

Tom Drinkwater, you have valid points and concern regarding seal & feel. I own the ue11 and although I’m not a singer I’ve tested various mouth contortions in various positions and I do not lose the seal with my customs. Furthermore, I’ve tried running, biking and loads of walking and still don’t lose the seal. The only soft earphones I’ve tried are the non-custom type (cx300, x3, xb, x3i, shure se530…) and I always got a good seal from them, but night and day vs customs. With customs (hard shell) IMO the quality of seal and comfort totally depends on the quality of impressions taken by your audiologist. Deep ear impresions that ue uses, seem to work best. That said, it will take a few days of use for you to get accustom to the new feel if you’ve never used customs before.

 

[Tom Drinkwater]

Walkgood, I am convinced of the merits of custom molds, just seems like soft ones would be more comfortable. so its between soft and hard custom molds really.

do your UE11s make friction mechanical noise in your ear when changing face position, even if they do not lose seal?

i'm looking into the soft molds, but I'm curious why the major manufacturers dont use them. The ACS is as expensive as the westone, I'm still hoping that the freq or livewire might be ok for me since its a lot cheaper.

That said i've never regretted spending a lot on a high quality item. (except when the price dropped by 50% 3 months later) however its not clear to me yet that the acs or westone actually are much different from the livewire or freq. (except for the softness of the ACS)

I'd love to hear from anyone who has had a freq or livewire and felt the need to upgrade, esp if they are also a performer or singer.

 

[WalkGood]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Drinkwater /img/forum/go_quote.gif Walkgood, I am convinced of the merits of custom molds, just seems like soft ones would be more comfortable. so its between soft and hard custom molds really. do your UE11s make friction mechanical noise in your ear when changing face position, even if they do not lose seal? … …

I never tried a soft custom earphone, would be interesting but I would think their life span would be substantially shortened, seeing how often I replaced tips on my iem’s.

No, I don’t get any friction or mechanical noise in my ear by changing face/mouth position, only thing I’ve noticed is that they tend to move ever so slightly deeper and seat/seal themselves even tighter. In fact the only way I can remove them is by lightly applying pressured to the back outside of my ear to break the seal, while gentle removing them with other hand. The procedure of removing them at first was hard, now I can insert and remove them with my eyes closed and quickly remove one to converse with someone.

On another note, I did have the opportunity to audition the universal custom freq’s at CanJam, they had very nice sq. IMO much better balance of high’s & mids … well a bit better than the se530s … but not near as overall pleasing as the ue11s, which btw I tested their universal custom as well before I pulled the trigger.

 

[Tom Drinkwater]

Quote:

Originally Posted by WalkGood /img/forum/go_quote.gif On another note, I did have the opportunity to audition the universal custom freq’s at CanJam, they had very nice sq. IMO much better balance of high’s & mids … well a bit better than the se530s … but not near as overall pleasing as the ue11s, which btw I tested their universal custom as well before I pulled the trigger.

sorry i'm not fully understanding all that!

what is a universal custom? a try out mold that fits anyone?

and what is sq?

 

[ClieOS]

Universal custom is just a custom with an universal eartip so people can get a sense of how the custom will sound like. Of course, the use of universal eartip means you will get better seal (and generally better SQ) when you get the real custom mold.

 

[Tom Drinkwater]

SQ = sound quality? doh

exactly which bit is the the eartip, like the foam sleeve on a universal?? and walkgood, exactly which bit are you talking about replacing above?

i didn't think custom IEMs had any replaceable parts (other than cables etc) do you mean the seals on universal IEMs?

 

[ClieOS]

Eartips can be either foam or flanges, which is the part you inserted into your ear canal (with an universal IEM).

WalkGood is talking about how much he was required to replace the silicone eartips (bi-flanges, tri-flanges, etc) on an universal IEM. Silicone eartips on IEM will aged in 1 or 2 years depends on use, therefore they need replacement. However, what WalkGood doesn't know is, silicone material on custom mold is different from universal IEM, and they will last much longer (longer than the product life cycle of custom IEM, which is about 4 years).

In case you don't know, custom mold IEM generally last less than 4 yrs because your ear will keep growing in your lifetime thus your custom IEM will no longer fit your ear after certain time (depends on how fast your ear will grow).

 

[slowth]

i think a problem with soft silicone is perhaps it's slightly more fragile, more prone to rip/wear/tear...
And I think it could warp slightly if not taken care of?

I can't be sure but I did have some custom soft silicone molds done for my um1 and it started to tear abit..
but they are easier to get good comfort from... having said that.. hard acrylic done properly is pretty darned comfy as well.

 

[Tom Drinkwater]

OK thanks a lot for the info.

next step, what to expect from sound quality?

As a performer the main thing I need is focused cohesive clear midrange, and a non fatiguing sound. Lots of highs and lows are pretty, but not actually that important for playing well. I also need a very stable sound, with a good sense of stereo placement.

As a listener I would also value immersion in the soundstage, and great imaging, sparkling highs and deep lows, but these things are less important than the attributes in the previous paragraph above for performing.

I'm actually sceptical about the benefits of multiple drivers for any sort of headphones, but since all the top ones use 2 or 3 drivers I guess there must be something in it.

Can any one give me a sound quality or sound character reference for any of the popular custom IEMs in terms of other well known equipment?

for example, I'm familiar with Mackie HR824 studio monitor speakers, and also fostex PM0.4 mini monitor speakers, I'm also quite familar with 90s era Linn hifi speakers, I mostly track using AKG K271 headphones, and am also familiar with Sennheiser CX300, and AKG K55 at the low end, and have a approximate idea of the sound of some high end over ear phones like grado and sennheisers.

So can anyone place the ES2, Freq Show, or livewires in terms of quality related to other equipment so I have an idea what level we are talking about?

 

[slowth]

freq shows have a good clear midrange.

LWs I think have a flatter, more analytical signature... but the FS mids stand out more. =)

I think..

 

[WalkGood]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClieOS /img/forum/go_quote.gif Eartips can be either foam or flanges, which is the part you inserted into your ear canal (with an universal IEM). WalkGood is talking about how much he was required to replace the silicone eartips (bi-flanges, tri-flanges, etc) on an universal IEM. Silicone eartips on IEM will aged in 1 or 2 years depends on use, therefore they need replacement. However, what WalkGood doesn't know is, silicone material on custom mold is different from universal IEM, and they will last much longer (longer than the product life cycle of custom IEM, which is about 4 years). In case you don't know, custom mold IEM generally last less than 4 yrs because your ear will keep growing in your lifetime thus your custom IEM will no longer fit your ear after certain time (depends on how fast your ear will grow).

my ears stoped growing unlike other body part that has continued to grow

... btw, i'll let you know if I out grow dem, in the mean time ... I'm a very happy camper

 

[joeshambro]

i think you would really enjoy future sonics -- i'm a big fan of their sound signature, and i think that, for a musician needing stage monitors, the future sonics sound signature is among the very best. it's very warm, engaging, with lush mid-range and solid lows. being a dynamic driver design, the highs aren't as sparkly as an armature-based monitor (sensaphonics, ultimate ears, westone, etc -- future sonics is the only company using dynamic drivers), and the response time (for critical/detailed listening) is a touch slower. however, that won't affect you on stage.

i also really like livewires for the price.

 

[joeshambro]

oh, and about acrylic vs. silicone:

silicone earphones (sensaphonics and ACS are the only two companies making full silicone monitors. the rest are using acrylic or a hybid of acrylic shell with silicone ear tip) are very comfortable, but they tend to be a little harder to maintain and keep clean. they're also prone to breaking and wearing down, needing to be replaced, especially where the cable enters the earpiece. this can be costly.

i also find that the silicone hardens up and loses some of it's comfort over time. if aesthetics are very important, the transparent silicone is hardly visible when work and is easiy the lowest-profile option. however, the clear silicone tends to also turn white as it hardens.

acrylic can either be irritating or perfect, depending on your fit, and that will be dependent on your ear impressions. make sure your ear impressions are the highest quality you can achieve by a professional audiologist. don't chance it with those stupid home-impression kits -- pay the $50 or so and see a hearing doc.

so to sum it up, about comfort? get good impressions, and both will be fine, but the silicone wins, all things equal.