[Spyro]

Yea, as much as I love it, take W3 off that list.

Most accurate: ER4S

Most accurate and best sounding: UM3X

 

[Pianist]

Personally, I don't think ATH-M50 is neutral - it's got a V-shaped response with elevated bass (especially sub-bass and some mid bass as well) and upper treble. Amping it with a quality amp does help, but the signature still remains V-shaped. I also found the bass to be somewhat bloated and treble to be unnaturally piercing and metallic sounding, although the extension is good. HD555 is not neutral either, but more so than ATH-M50 - it's got some mid bass emphasis and a slightly rolled off upper treble. It also has an overly laid back and sweetened sound IMO. Westone 3 is certainly not neutral either mainly because it's got a bit too much emphasis on upper bass in my opinion and a somewhat recessed midrange. The most neutral, balanced IEMs I've heard so far are Hifiman RE0, Etymotic ER6i and HF2, Westone UM3X and Ortofon e-Q7 out of which Ortofon is probably my favourite. I also thought Q-jays are also pretty good at revealing differences between sources, so check those out as well. None of them are perfectly neutral, but each is quite close to neutral in its own way. I recommend trying RE0 first - it's probably the most neutral of them all with perhaps some very slight emphasis on treble (but that depends on which tips you use) and a slightly laid back midrange (again depending on fit and tips).

 

[Hentai11]

My most neutral unamped phones are my IE8s once I turn the bass all the way down. They are, however, not terribly detailed.

My most neutral amped phones are the RE1s, but that amp isn't optional; they're tough to drive.

If I could never use an amp again, my Shure SE530s would be my main phones, by a good margin. The word is that they have a roll-off in the high end, but I don't hear it. Then again, my hearing tops out at around 17.5 kHz. Age.

 

[james444]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hentai11 /img/forum/go_quote.gif My most neutral unamped phones are my IE8s once I turn the bass all the way down. They are, however, not terribly detailed.

I'm afraid I have to disagree with both. Even on minimum bass setting the IE8s have way too much upper bass. On the other hand, if you EQ that bass hump (at least -8db) you'll find that they're surprisingly detailed for dynamic driver based IEMs.

 

[Antony6555]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lunatique /img/forum/go_quote.gif Actually, the ones that most think of as bassy are not at all. The HD650 and M50 are actually quite neutral if you compared them to reference quality speakers that can move air down to 30Hz or so and very neutral. There is actually more bass in a neutral sound than most people think--just that many consumer grade stuff has hyped bass and that is not neutral. HD650 and M50 are not hyped--they're just right.

Check out the frequency response for the hd650-there is a clear bass emphasis. The hd600, on the other hand, is pretty accurate. Of course, you can "feel" the bass on a pair of relatively accurate speakers more than on accurate headphones.

 

[prone2phone]

from the information I gathered on Head-fi, IE8 and UM3X are the most neutral headphones, because they do not posses bass - sub bass roll off and don't have elevated treble, if the music has too much bass its the problem of music, not these IEM, IMO

 

[rhythmdevils]

while I do think the HD650 and M50 have a bit more bass than neutral (650 in midbass and m50 in lower bass), I do really agree with what you are saying Lunatique, esspecially that people misuse the term neutral thinking it means bright. It's like there is this "neutral sounding coloration" that makes everything sound clear, and people think because it sounds clear, it is neutral. wrong.

Since your tastes are similar to mine, I'm curious about the REO now. But what Pianist said about elevated treble and "laid back" mids doesn't sound good. Those are my least favorite qualities in headphones. I sold my HF2 because of the ever so slightly recessed mids. And dislike the SR71 amp for the same reason.

 

[mvw2]

The flattest response for my ears is the Triple.Fi 10. There isn't really any need for EQing with this earphone, at least for my ears. Things like the UM3X and IE8 are very well balanced as well. Really, they just have a few dB peak on the upper end or lower end, respectively, that do make them sound slightly bright or warm, my testing, my ears of course. However, a lot of earphones out there have wilder responses that have greater need for EQing to sound good. Some earphones are very off-putting to me. For example, the NE-7M. It's a well liked budget earphone. With my own use and testing, I hear and verify a very prominent 6dB peak at 5kHz. It's quite annoying to me, enough so where I really don't enjoy those earphones without EQing. If the peak or dip is significant enough, it can be problematic. A few dB is good enough for most cases and within a margin that most folks don't care too much about. Most folks don't casually notice response fluctuations below a few dB. One can be quite critical and notice dB differences of under 0.5dB, but that goes beyond what one would care about on a daily basis. +/-3dB is a good thing to shoot for.

It's also important to stress that each person hears "flat" differently. As well, our perception of flat changes with amplitude. Then we have additional hardware that influences the sound like the DAC and amp used, the eartips used, and how we insert the earphone into our ear. We end up with a lot of variability beyond just the earphone.

 

[Pianist]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhythmdevils /img/forum/go_quote.gif while I do think the HD650 and M50 have a bit more bass than neutral (650 in midbass and m50 in lower bass), I do really agree with what you are saying Lunatique, esspecially that people misuse the term neutral thinking it means bright. It's like there is this "neutral sounding coloration" that makes everything sound clear, and people think because it sounds clear, it is neutral. wrong. Since your tastes are similar to mine, I'm curious about the REO now. But what Pianist said about elevated treble and "laid back" mids doesn't sound good. Those are my least favorite qualities in headphones. I sold my HF2 because of the ever so slightly recessed mids. And dislike the SR71 amp for the same reason.

But remember, I also think M50 has elevated treble. If you don't think so, then I doubt you'll think RE0 has elevated treble either, because it has less emphasis on treble than M50 IMO - only a very, very slight emphasis and even that is debatable. Also, depending on which tips you use, the sound of RE0 can change significantly. With the big clear bi-flange tips, for example, the mids become more prominent and are no longer laid back at all. The most neutral sound I get out of my RE0 however, is when using UE single flange silicone tips, and with those the mids are a bit laid back and the treble is slightly emphasized. But I noticed that the UE tips actually make the treble more aggressive with all other earphones I've tried them on as well. When using the stock single flange tips, the sound is probably the most neutral actually, with no emphasis on treble and maybe a very slight hint of darkness in the mids, but the bass is not tight enough with these tips. With properly done custom tips and also proper amping, I am sure that RE0 can be made completely neutral and controlled in the bass at the same time. It's little driver has A LOT of potential IMO.

But anyways, come on, you must be crazy not to try RE0 at its current price of $79 - it's a steal!

 

[TopPop]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pianist /img/forum/go_quote.gif With properly done custom tips and also proper amping, I am sure that RE0 can be made completely neutral and controlled in the bass at the same time. It's little driver has A LOT of potential IMO.

Oh come on! You can't do that to me, man. That's just mean.

I'm not gonna be able to get my impressions done for these until next week!

The nerve of some people...

 

[Pianist]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopPop /img/forum/go_quote.gif Oh come on! You can't do that to me, man. That's just mean. I'm not gonna be able to get my impressions done for these until next week! The nerve of some people...

lol I am just speculating. Like I said, it will depend on how custom tips are done - their length, the size of the opening, what they are made of, things like that. Good luck - I hope your custom tips will improve the sound of RE0. I am very curious about how the sound will change, so let me and all of us know how it is when you get them!

I am considering getting some myself BTW, although I feel that my newly acquired Ortofon e-Q7 may have the power to dethrone the RE0.

 

[TopPop]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pianist /img/forum/go_quote.gif lol I am just speculating. Like I said, it will depend on how custom tips are done - their length, the size of the opening, what they are made of, things like that. Good luck - I hope your custom tips will improve the sound of RE0. I am very curious about how the sound will change, so let me and all of us know how it is when you get them! I am considering getting some myself BTW, although I feel that my newly acquired Ortofon e-Q7 may have the power to dethrone the RE0.

Oohhhh... snaaaap...

That good, eh? Not available in the States, though, correct?

 

[Pianist]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopPop /img/forum/go_quote.gif Oohhhh... snaaaap... That good, eh? Not available in the States, though, correct?

PM sent

 

[jyle_t]

I'd say of all the universals i've heard (atrios, SA6, SE530, westone 3, um3x, TF10pro, FX500, IE8, q-jays, image x10, e-Q7, etc), i find the Ortofon e-Q7 the most neutral IEM. UM3X is a close second, followed by TF10pro.

I've not heard the RE0 or any etymotics.

 

[Pianist]

Quote:

Originally Posted by prone2phone /img/forum/go_quote.gif from the information I gathered on Head-fi, IE8 and UM3X are the most neutral headphones, because they do not posses bass - sub bass roll off and don't have elevated treble, if the music has too much bass its the problem of music, not these IEM, IMO

Where did you read that? IE8 is anything but neutral. It's got a lot of upper bass emphasis. UM3X is quite neutral indeed - although its treble is a bit recessed. Also, if sub bass is rolled of, that means that headphone is bass light, not neutral. A technically capable, neutral headphone should have well presented sub bass and upper treble with little to no roll off and a sufficiently even response in between.