[Iron_Dreamer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scrith However, with some people already saying that they prefer the Aqvox, the less-than-one-month old Lavry black is being called into question pretty early, in my opinion.

LOL "some people," you're talkin' to 'em. I am indeed having a hard time choosing between the Aqvox and Lavry, though I know I prefer both to the DAC1. I don't think this calls the Lavry into question, as the Aqvox is a pretty sophisticated unit, which would likely cost much more were it built in the US as the Lavry is.

 

[chrisfromalbany]

Quote:

Originally Posted by grawk The way to be happy with gear is to find gear you're happy with, then stop looking. Being unhappy with something because there's something newer out is entirely mental.

I think you can be happy with what you have and still look. Luckily there are alot of people looking otherwise who would you unload your stuff too..

Quote:

Originally Posted by applebook Your beliefs are not borne out by the facts. The DAC1's resale value right now is as high as ever. In fact, when the DAC1 was released around 2 years ago, it retailed for around $850, and used units from that era should still fetch around $700. Name one single high-end amp that has that sort of value rentention. You also need to read this thread more closely. Never has Iron Dreamer or others who've listened to other high-end DACs like the Aqvox, Lavry, and Stello claim that the DAC1 is mediocre or bad.

So you are telling me to read this thread more closely and then you are going to put words in my mouth. I guess it doesn't surpise me you are a DAC1 owner. I don't exactly remember saying DAC1 was bad, just it might not be the best in the mid-range market anymore. And I also remember saying I might be wrong.

I believe if you were to hold on to a DAC for extended length of time then the value would see a shape decline. This applies to all audio equipment but being DAC converts information based from a chip platform, the obsolescence rate is alittle higher.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iron_Dreamer I think the difference I have noted so far is pretty objective, i.e. something that anyone who likes high-end sound would notice, and make them prefer the Lavry. I doubt system matching or taste would make one prefer the DAC1.

Interesting.. we have similarities in taste, you seem to be unbias in your reviews, I've read. I imagine if I getting a DAC for a speaker based system, I get DA10, used though. Maybe I shouldn't have read this thread. lol.

 

[applebook]

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisfromalbany I don't exactly remember saying DAC1 was bad, just it might not be the best in the mid-range market anymore. And I also remember saying I might be wrong. I believe if you were to hold on to a DAC for extended length of time then the value would see a shape decline.

"This only confirms my believes that DAC1 wasn't going to be worth the money."

Not worth the money as compared to what? The Lavry, which is a brand new product and isn't heads and heels above a more than 3-year-old design?

"Compared to getting an expensive amp which I think will hold it's value longer and isn't as quickly outdated"

Again, the DAC1 has been around for a long time, so even if it's now displaced at the $1k range (and it really hasn't been clearly beaten), I don't see how you can claim that it's "quickly outdated." You made the comparison between the DAC1's value vis-a-vis "expensive amps," and I point out that the value of the DAC1 has held up far better than most, if not all, high-end amps.

 

[mshan]

Todd Krieger's impressions of the Lavry DA10 at Audioasylum:
http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/dig...es/113889.html

Lavry DA10: "Lush", "luxurious", and "tube-like"

Benchmark DAC-1: "fatiguing"

??

 

[Iron_Dreamer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mshan Todd Krieger's impressions of the Lavry DA10 at Audioasylum: http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/dig...es/113889.html Lavry DA10: "Lush", "luxurious", and "tube-like" Benchmark DAC-1: "fatiguing" ??

Certainly seems a bit of an initial-impression based overreaction to me. IMO the Lavry could be termed "fatiguing" by comparison to the Aqvox, anyway. In fact, I could change Benchmark to Lavry, and Lavry to Aqvox in that quote, and the comparison would stand. I think it is all about frame of reference. His comparison is like taking a bar graph where one scored 98 and the other scored 96, but only showing the last 5%, which makes the difference appear much larger than it really is (a trick computer hardware sites love to do to bias benchmark results in favor of their sponsors).

 

[dknightd]

Iron Dreamer if you are comparing with an older DAC1 it might be worth shipping it back to benchmark and having it upgraded. Aparently benchmark will upgrade an old dac1 to the new board for $50. I've read the new one sounds better than the old one, but, havn't heard the old one so can't say.
If you are going to compare the products you might well use the latest from each company. I'd guess you'll recover the $50 upgrade investment if you decided to sell the dac1

 

[J-Pak]

Quick question that might have been addressed already. Does the DA10 use two separate circuits for balanced operation? Ie it's not just splitting an unbalanced signal?

I'm assuming that it is truly balanced, since it doesn't have unbalanced outputs, but just want to be absolutely 100% sure.

Along the same lines, but not really is the Benchmark DAC1 “truly” balanced? Being pro audio equipment I'm under the impression most engineers just use balanced cables and when fed into another piece of equipment are just returned to their unbalanced form.

Thanks

 

[Ferbose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dknightd Iron Dreamer if you are comparing with an older DAC1 it might be worth shipping it back to benchmark and having it upgraded. Aparently benchmark will upgrade an old dac1 to the new board for $50. I've read the new one sounds better than the old one, but, havn't heard the old one so can't say. If you are going to compare the products you might well use the latest from each company. I'd guess you'll recover the $50 upgrade investment if you decided to sell the dac1

Where did you get this info?
I might considering upgrading my DAC1 in the future.

 

[Iron_Dreamer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dknightd Iron Dreamer if you are comparing with an older DAC1 it might be worth shipping it back to benchmark and having it upgraded. Aparently benchmark will upgrade an old dac1 to the new board for $50. I've read the new one sounds better than the old one, but, havn't heard the old one so can't say. If you are going to compare the products you might well use the latest from each company. I'd guess you'll recover the $50 upgrade investment if you decided to sell the dac1

Well this might be true, but at least from what I've read, I doubt the changes they've made would much impact the comparison I'm making. I've read that they upgraded the front volume control, which I am bypassing (using the calibrated option), and the RCA outputs, which I am not using (using XLR cables). Unless they upgraded the power supply, changed the opamps, modified the circuit, or something else serious of the like would the overall sound quality of the device really change in a way that would have a large impact on such a comparison.

Quote:

Originally Posted by J-Pak Quick question that might have been addressed already. Does the DA10 use two separate circuits for balanced operation? Ie it's not just splitting an unbalanced signal? I'm assuming that it is truly balanced, since it doesn't have unbalanced outputs, but just want to be absolutely 100% sure. Along the same lines, but not really is the Benchmark DAC1 “truly” balanced? Being pro audio equipment I'm under the impression most engineers just use balanced cables and when fed into another piece of equipment are just returned to their unbalanced form. Thanks

Yes, the DA10 is a full-balanced design, you can see this by tracing the outputs from the DAC chip through the circuit to the outputs. It would be especially silly for it to just be splitting a unbalanced signal, since it has no unbalanced outputs to begin with. The final proof are jumpers that can be set at the outputs to deactivate either leg of the balanced output for the use with unbalanced cables via adaptor.

The DAC is also "truly" balanced, this can again be seen by the output circuit, which keeps the + and - outputs from the DAC chip on their own output rails. Only when output to the headphone jack or RCA jacks are they summed.

 

[Beauregard]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferbose Where did you get this info? I might considering upgrading my DAC1 in the future.

This post is dated but it seems likely that Benchmark might offer something similar for an upgrade to PCB version F. http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showp...&postcount=130

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iron_Dreamer I've read that they upgraded the front volume control, which I am bypassing (using the calibrated option), and the RCA outputs, which I am not using (using XLR cables). Unless they upgraded the power supply, changed the opamps, modified the circuit, or something else serious of the like would the overall sound quality of the device really change in a way that would have a large impact on such a comparison.

Check out this thread from Audio Asylum.http://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/t...gital&m=114009

There's a fair amount of dubious information about the "significantly improved" DAC1 being kicked down the misinformation highway - and it seems to have originated with the commercial modder who particpated in the Audio Asylum thread linked to.

AFAIK, Benchmark have never claimed any improvement in their product since version F was introduced in 11/04. Jon L posted an email from Benchmark with the serial number corresponding to that date. The documented change at that time was a redoing of the single-ended output that lowered the resistance to 30 ohms. Without confirmation from Benchmark, I'd be very leery of claims suggesting anything beyond this.

Best,
Beau

 

[dknightd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferbose Where did you get this info? I might considering upgrading my DAC1 in the future.

I don't remember where I heard it. I read it somewhere in a post from a benchmark employee. Give them a call or email, there contact information is on http://www.benchmarkmedia.com

 

[AlanY]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beauregard AFAIK, Benchmark have never claimed any improvement in their product since version F was introduced in 11/04. Jon L posted an email from Benchmark with the serial number corresponding to that date. The documented change at that time was a redoing of the single-ended output that lowered the resistance to 30 ohms. Without confirmation from Benchmark, I'd be very leery of claims suggesting anything beyond this.

This was my understanding as well. If anyone has links to solid information suggesting otherwise (not second-hand rumors or conjecture), someone should post it.

 

[applebook]

Some op-amps and other knick-knacks were changed on the DAC1 earlier this year, and Empirical Audio claims that the mods offer a "significant" improvement in SQ, but I'm not so sure because some use those terms much more loosely than I would: http://www5.head-fi.org/forums/showt...highlight=dac1

 

[elmoe]

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisfromalbany This only confirms my believes that DAC1 wasn't going to be worth the money. At the DAC1 price point, I don't want to feel the need to upgrade for awhile. Compared to getting an expensive amp which I think will hold it's value longer and isn't as quickly outdated. Only because I have a limited budget and think I get more value else were. Maybe I am making a mistake. But threads like this make me think not.

I've had the DAC-1 for over 10 months now, and I've only been feeling the upgrade bug in the last couple of days, what with the Apollo thread going on and the eastsound e5 getting more and more positive feedback (although I did think it was another FOTM, it seems people actually do enjoy it alot in the long run).

 

[Iron_Dreamer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jashugan I've had the DAC-1 for over 10 months now, and I've only been feeling the upgrade bug in the last couple of days, what with the Apollo thread going on and the eastsound e5 getting more and more positive feedback (although I did think it was another FOTM, it seems people actually do enjoy it alot in the long run).

Hmm, well I've heard the E5, and it's neither as detailed nor as refined as the DAC1 you already have. Rega players I've heard before were a bit smoothede over and lacking in detail as a result. Either the Aqvox or Lavry represent a worthwhile upgrade from the DAC1 in my mind now, just depends on whether you're looking for more expansive soundstage (Lavry) or more midrange dynamics/musicality (Aqvox). Both offer a more subtle and nuanced sound than the DAC1. I don't want to give away too much of my review before I post it