Crossfeed...need it? don't need it?
Apr 21, 2004 at 10:23 PM Post #16 of 39
I found the "Jan Meier"/Pinkie's X-feed to be more neutral with little to no coloration added, but the "shape" of the sound by Headroom's crossfeed is much closer to what the K1000's natural crossfeed is like. Although, the Headroom crossfeed colors the sound noticeably.

But now I have no need for crossfeed.
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-Ed
 
Apr 21, 2004 at 11:09 PM Post #17 of 39
I didn't like the effect..

It may take the blob out of your head, but at the expense of a excessively (in my opinion) laid-back sound..

It's whatever blows your hair back, I guess..

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Apr 21, 2004 at 11:50 PM Post #18 of 39
sleepkyng,

For me crossfeed is very important in headphone listening. It’s one of those things that, until you have heard it, you don’t know what you’re missing. Even on classical orchestra recordings where there is a lot of natural crossfeed in the recording itself, turning it on makes that annoying sound hole in your head come up solid, and suddenly there is that “ahh” feeling. It’s important to be relaxed to hear the effect of the crossfeed really well. For example, if you are hiking along and an insect flies in your ear, you just brush it away and keep on going without much bother. Imagine that you are sitting outside reading a book and an insect flies in your ear; you would practically jump out of your chair. Almost the whole point of crossfeed is to make this kind of annoyance go away when there is too much of one sound in one ear. When I first got the HeadRoom Max I compared it to the pretty good headphone output in my NAD receiver, and I couldn’t hear the crossfeed effect. Later that night when I was relaxed, the effect was very obvious. I think this excitement effect could also explain why in some public tests audiophiles can’t tell the difference between a $300 and $3,000 amp, but when they get them home they can very easily tell them apart.

A lot of pop music recorded since 1980 seems to me to have relatively little stereo separation, probably because of the influence of Walkman headphone systems and car stereo. Also, most pop music is exciting and upbeat, reducing the perception of crossfeed for the reasons I have explained above.

I have compared my Max, and the Meier HA-2 amp in my system for a time until I sent the HA-2 back mainly because of its crossfeed. I have to say that Jan Meier is a very decent guy to do business with, and now you can get his amps from Todd.

For me, the HeadRoom crossfeed is clearly superior to the Meier crossfeed. The Meier crossfeed greatly reduces ambience and narrows the soundstage noticeably. The HeadRoom crossfeed has no effect on either. Yes, the Meier crossfeed has no effect on frequency response, but when the Max has its crossfeed and compensatory filter on, there is little change in its frequency response. The Chesky Ultimate Demonstration Disc (the one with the ears) is frequently used by Head-Fi members in reviews of components. On the track “Holographic Imaging” there is a performance of Benjamin Britten’s Festival Te Deum, a choral work recorded in a church. The Meier crossfeed almost destroys the ambience and narrows the soundstage, but the Max does neither. Some people have posted that the Meier crossfeed reduces bass, but I have never seen a post criticizing the Max bass with crossfeed. I didn’t hear any reduction in bass with the Meier crossfeed, but maybe I didn’t have the right material. Also, for me, the Max crossfeed generally is just more relaxing than the Meier crossfeed. Jude has also made some criticisms of the Meier crossfeed in a thread with the title “Upgrade to Old Max or HA-2?”, but I can’t find it now because the search function is turned off.

I absolutely do not agree with others who have posted that the crossfeed in either amp reduces tonality or dynamics.

I have considered trying to build my own headphone amp with crossfeed, and the Meier version is the simplest to implement. I wonder if changing some of his variables, such as the amount of the crossfeed, the time delay and the frequency where it changes could solve its problems.

I hope this helps.
 
Apr 22, 2004 at 1:06 AM Post #19 of 39
My favorite thing about headphones is how the music is in your head, and how it's easy to tell which direction a sound is coming from. That's why I don't like speakers, the sound moves out of my head and stuff from the left channel goes in the right channel and vice versa. A crossfeed is supposed to do the same thing, except with headphones. Thus, no crossfeed for me.

Of course, I haven't actually tried one out, so I'll play with Foobars crossfeed and report back with my comments, see if they have changed.
 
Apr 22, 2004 at 1:18 AM Post #21 of 39
Tried the pinkfloyd x-feed when another member had it for a while, have mixed opinions. On my Grado 225 it's a good thing, it keeps me from feeling that the sound is coming from the headphones and seem to give a more natural presentation. On my Senn 580s it didn't really do anything other than shift the frequency balance a bit, small, but it was there. On the other member's Stax system it just ruined the soundstage, just completely collapsed it.

I don't know, I think it's really headphone dependant, if I were listening to my Grados exclusively I'd probably want it, otherwise I doubt I'd miss it.
 
Apr 22, 2004 at 3:14 AM Post #22 of 39
I have the Meier crossfeed with W1000's. I cannot compare it to any other crossfeeds.

Does it "alter" the music? Yup.

Do I desire "purity" or "accuracy"? No freaking way. Purity means I'm listening to some early Grateful Dead release on the original master on the same equipment it was mixed on (or recorded on depending on your obsession). Accuracy means the same thing, depending on your linguistic rigor.

What I love and need in my crossfeed is its ability to enhance the "placement" of the music infront of me instead of on the sides (no, this does not mean the same thing as mono, or even "less" stereo effect, it is different). I find that I can listen MUCH longer with far less FATIGUE and this increases my "enjoyment"! I find I always have the crossfeed on, and sometimes play with it on the strongest setting. The effect is always barely noticeable (which I also prefer), but, again the fatigue factor is eliminated. Thank goodness. Otherwise I'd be ripping the headphones off my head with a serious headache before the darned cd is finished. If you don't have this subjective predicament then I wouldn't bother with it. It is what they call a "psycho-acoustic" phenomenon. To each his/her own. I hope this is helpful and I apologize in advance for my sarcasm. In all honesty it is simply impossible to tell you for sure. Do you get tired of listening after a time when you still want to continue listening? If so crossfeed is your only alternative, otherwise, why "alter" the music if you don't need to?
 
Apr 22, 2004 at 5:44 AM Post #23 of 39
Personally I don't like crossfeed as it appears to blur the sound too much for my personal liking...

That isn't to say that the experience is bad for everyone, just that for me personally, I prefer it as 'nature intended'.
 
Apr 22, 2004 at 6:37 AM Post #24 of 39
Quote:

Originally Posted by NeilPeart
ipodstudio,
tortie provided the link earlier in the thread:

http://www.rock-grotto.co.uk/x-feed.htm

I really enjoy crossfeed on my Corda HA-2 (it really is different from HeadRoom's crossfeed), and I might build the device myself and connect it to the MPX3 (or just buy Jan's device).




NeilPeart, me thinks me needs me eyes testing
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Apr 22, 2004 at 7:20 AM Post #25 of 39
No worries - my eyes have missed much more important things many a times...
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Apr 22, 2004 at 8:02 AM Post #26 of 39
I'm toying with the crossfeed on the Total BitHead as I type, and I do find that the crossfeed does indeed change two things: soundstage and tonal balance. With Norah Jones her voice comes from directly in front of my head, and in a small space. With it engaged her voice spreads out some and is more natural sounding. The bass picks up some also, so if you like a little added bass, not too much, but a little, this amp and crossfeed does so nicely.
 
Apr 22, 2004 at 9:00 AM Post #27 of 39
I used it in the past, but have not used it for almost a year. I don't miss it and doubt I will ever use an amp with it again. It does change the sound of the music.
 
Apr 22, 2004 at 4:49 PM Post #28 of 39
I haven't spent much time with the top of the line HeadRoom amps, but I do have a Cmoy with crossfeed. I really like it with some old recordings that have bad "hard left; hard right" stereo channels. I don't use it on recordings with good stereo imaging.
 
Apr 22, 2004 at 4:51 PM Post #29 of 39
Quote:

Originally Posted by tortie
I personally love crossfeed and never listen to headphones without it. The crossfeed projects the sound to be in front of me instead of inside my head. It also enables me to listen to headphones longer. Try it out, you'll never know if you'll love it or hate it until you try it
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I've tried the crossfeed plugin in foobar2000 (based on the Linkwitz crossfeed circuit) and it does help project the image forward somewhat. I do think it kind of smears some of the detail, but it is pleasant for long-term listening. The bass seems to increase a little, too. I generally don't use crossfeed since I'm so used to headphones that the extreme stereo separation doesn't bother me at all.
 
Apr 22, 2004 at 5:14 PM Post #30 of 39
A lot depends on the crossfeed implementation itself and the headphones in use. There are 3 crossfeeds I have tried. Foobar's crossfeed is the worst as it introduces too many colorations and smearing, the one on Pink Floyd's page is a nice subtle effect that has very little adverse effects on the sound while providing just a bit of cross. The third is from the Headwize site, the Ohman circuit which has a stronger effect and I'm still in the evaluation stage with it. Luckily the 2 DIY circuits are easy to build (even for a nob like me) and very cheap. I say try them and see what you think. Well worth the few bucks in parts and solder. I say headphone type because some have a more pronounced 'i the head' effect than others. My fave types are canal 'phones which are about as in your head as it gets, figuratively and physically
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