CrinEar Project Meta - Impressions Thread

[silentdisko]

Nope. Read Crinacles latest post on Reddit where he basically confirmed 1dd 2 BA. He comes across as lecturing and arrogant when called out on the value proposition.

Disagree. He explained it well and factually correct. The D2C model is great for consumers. This whole thing just proves he was right about not disclosing the driver config, as people seem totally unequipped to understand the economics of this. The amount of drivers is not the driving factor of the price, people can't discern the config from ear alone, and you would have paid twice as much for the Meta in retail. He's right.

 

[Gothamm]

Disagree. He explained it well and factually correct. The D2C model is great for consumers. This whole thing just proves he was right about not disclosing the driver config, as people seem totally unequipped to understand the economics of this. The amount of drivers is not the driving factor of the price, people can't discern the config from ear alone, and you would have paid twice as much for the Meta in retail. He's right.

Interesting that you have them for sale. Could not rid of mine fast enough.

Look I get this is an owners thread so everyone here is trying to justify their purchase. This has the same configuration as a Fiio FH3 (2 BA Knowles + 1 DD) which retails for $109.

I read his whole “economies of scale” spiel. If you believe that it costs 2.5X to make the same configuration…well I don’t know what to tell you. Crin is running a business and he definitely knew that revealing driver config would reduce sales. Insane that he tried to convince buyers that these were a $500 value proposition (see his video).

 

[smirks_audio]

Interesting that you have them for sale. Could not rid of mine fast enough.

Look I get this is an owners thread so everyone here is trying to justify their purchase. This has the same configuration as a Fiio FH3 (2 BA Knowles + 1 DD) which retails for $109.

I read his whole “economies of scale” spiel. If you believe that it costs 2.5X to make the same configuration…well I don’t know what to tell you. Crin is running a business and he definitely knew that revealing driver config would reduce sales. Insane that he tried to convince buyers that these were a $500 value proposition (see his video).

I don’t really have a horse in this race but my thinking is that maybe there’s more to pricing than just driver type and count?

There’s a single DD I used to own (and like) called qdc Superior EX, and I’ve also owned a Nightjar Singularity, also a single DD. They have identical driver counts, Superior EX is $235, and Singularity is over $1000 USD.

Singularity had superior technicalities to me, better stock accessories (Nightjar started as a cable company after all), and a better ownership experience among other considerations. Both the qdc and Singularity were worth their respective price points to me.

I haven’t heard FiiO FH3 but maybe Meta, from some consumers’ points of views, is worth the price premium over the FH3. My guess is that even with the driver configuration revealed at launch, Meta would have sold out considering a thousand units were sold in less than a few hours.

I’m sorry that you’re unhappy with your unit and that it’s not worth it to you. I’m glad you were able to make the sale. Of course you’re free to feel that Meta was a scam and I’d remind you that value is very subjective.

Some want more drivers for their money, and some prioritize the final sound and packaging. Both views are legitimate IMO.

 

[silentdisko]

Interesting that you have them for sale. Could not rid of mine fast enough.

It really isn't.

 

[Gothamm]

I don’t really have a horse in this race but my thinking is that maybe there’s more to pricing than just driver type and count?

There’s a single DD I used to own (and like) called qdc Superior EX, and I’ve also owned a Nightjar Singularity, also a single DD. They have identical driver counts, Superior EX is $235, and Singularity is over $1000 USD.

Singularity had superior technicalities to me, better stock accessories (Nightjar started as a cable company after all), and a better ownership experience among other considerations. Both the qdc and Singularity were worth their respective price points to me.

I haven’t heard FiiO FH3 but maybe Meta, from some consumers’ points of views, is worth the price premium over the FH3. My guess is that even with the driver configuration revealed at launch, Meta would have sold out considering a thousand units were sold in less than a few hours.

I’m sorry that you’re unhappy with your unit and that it’s not worth it to you. I’m glad you were able to make the sale. Of course you’re free to feel that Meta was a scam and I’d remind you that value is very subjective.

Some want more drivers for their money, and some prioritize the final sound and packaging. Both views are legitimate IMO.

Appreciate that you see my pov. The nightjar singularity is a custom made DD in both design and implementation . If you believe njghtjar, years of R&D went into it. Crin is taking preexisting, widely available drivers and cramming it in a shell.

I firmly believe that hiding specs is anti consumer behavior. You don’t have to feature them, but at least make them available so a consumer can make an educated purchase. It’s the same behavior Apple engages in. They hide iPhone specs such as RAM. they get criticized for this, and rightly so.

 

[Kundi]

It really isn't.

Lol

 

[crinacle]

The nightjar singularity is a custom made DD in both design and implementation . If you believe njghtjar, years of R&D went into it. Crin is taking preexisting, widely available drivers and cramming it in a shell.

I can tell you that the Meta was in development also for years, with multiple iterations and also requiring a custom DD woofer.

We're now working on making a production version of the Meta; worse shells, worse drivers, worse everything... but it'll be much, much cheaper.

 

[RedCurry]

I can tell you that the Meta was in development also for years, with multiple iterations and also requiring a custom DD woofer.

We're now working on making a production version of the Meta; worse shells, worse drivers, worse everything... but it'll be much, much cheaper.

Why go down that road? Haters aren't going to change their minds and you'll give them more ammunition. Out of the 999 sets you sold, I'd wager that most buyers are happy. Put it another way, the tuning surpassed what a 1DD, 2BA set should be able to do, hence the speculation that there were micro-planars in it. I'd be more disappointed (and have been) with IEMs that throw in multiple driver types and underperform.

 

[Or1onSLi]

Why go down that road? Haters aren't going to change their minds and you'll give them more ammunition. Out of the 999 sets you sold, I'd wager that most buyers are happy. Put it another way, the tuning surpassed what a 1DD, 2BA set should be able to do, hence the speculation that there were micro-planars in it. I'd be more disappointed (and have been) with IEMs that throw in multiple driver types and underperform.

I don’t know why…but something inside my head tells me that the IEM Crin is talking about is Project Daybreak. From the graphs it is similar to Meta but it was said it would be cheaper, mass produced and have a different feeling.

But at the same time I wouldn’t be mad if they made a different IEM that is a very cheap Meta and that wouldn’t perform exactly like the Meta to bring that tuning the masses. At the end of the day what is making this hobby great is that the ability to try a tuning under 100$ and if you are into it climb up the ladder for an IEM that is the quintessence of that tuning philosophy. Being able to try Harman for 20/50/90$ was what made me realize that I wanted Variations in my collection, the same happened with other IEMs and this is valid for a lot of people andò for people who cannot afford more than 100$ IEMs anyway.

 

[clastorder]

50/50.

I think Crin's done some real good for the hobby over the years. The value of the Meta isn't defined by what's in it, it's by how much people were willing to pay for it. And judging by how quickly they sold out, people thought his reputation was worth the investment.

You also can't judge the quality of an IEM by how much effort was spent making it. We don't judge anything else that way aside from our own children's finger paintings, why should IEMs be any different?

There also isn't a correlation between driver amount, setup and cost. At most there's a correlation between cost-to-produce and the profit margin, but that also doesn't take into account intangibles. You wouldn't believe the profit margins on many consumer goods.

All the same, I don't know why the driver setup was hidden. It's not that hard to just spit out what's in it. If people really want to know, they'll take their units apart and figure it out. Not to mention that given the state of the IEM market, there's likely already other Chinese manufacturers doing the exact same thing and going over it with a fine tooth comb to try and get a similar product out the door ASAP.

So when are the reviews?

 

[Gothamm]

50/50.

I think Crin's done some real good for the hobby over the years. The value of the Meta isn't defined by what's in it, it's by how much people were willing to pay for it. And judging by how quickly they sold out, people thought his reputation was worth the investment.

You also can't judge the quality of an IEM by how much effort was spent making it. We don't judge anything else that way aside from our own children's finger paintings, why should IEMs be any different?

There also isn't a correlation between driver amount, setup and cost. At most there's a correlation between cost-to-produce and the profit margin, but that also doesn't take into account intangibles. You wouldn't believe the profit margins on many consumer goods.

All the same, I don't know why the driver setup was hidden. It's not that hard to just spit out what's in it. If people really want to know, they'll take their units apart and figure it out. Not to mention that given the state of the IEM market, there's likely already other Chinese manufacturers doing the exact same thing and going over it with a fine tooth comb to try and get a similar product out the door ASAP.

So when are the reviews?

No sir we're just haters. But seriously that's the main point I was trying to make. Give the consumer as much information to make an informed decision.

Concealing specs is anti consumer, period. I'll die on that hill. Especially when you dangle a carrot and say that you're getting $500 worth of value compared to the rest of the industry because "just trust me bro"

 

[Erkil]

I can tell you that the Meta was in development also for years, with multiple iterations and also requiring a custom DD woofer.

We're now working on making a production version of the Meta; worse shells, worse drivers, worse everything... but it'll be much, much cheaper.

...... lol I love it!

 

[Somafunk]

I can tell you that the Meta was in development also for years, with multiple iterations and also requiring a custom DD woofer.

We're now working on making a production version of the Meta; worse shells, worse drivers, worse everything... but it'll be much, much cheaper.

You're missing a marketing opportunity here, build a large, ill fitting ugly iem with a 10mm isobaric DD, large 14.4mm planer, 6Ba's, two EST's, a handful of microplanars and build a cable using 10AWG copper cable terminated in a mini xlr to attach to the oversized IEM shell, obviously you'll need a full size XLR plug on the other end to plug into a massive headphone amp.

Obviously it'll sound totally crap but that's what folk on here will decry as "novel, esoteric, not for everyone, unique, needs careful pairing, needs time to appreciate the nuances" etc...etc.

There you go, I expect it'll sell for $9999, I'll take 5% for giving you my idea.

 

[AsciiJC]

No sir we're just haters. But seriously that's the main point I was trying to make. Give the consumer as much information to make an informed decision.

Concealing specs is anti consumer, period. I'll die on that hill. Especially when you dangle a carrot and say that you're getting $500 worth of value compared to the rest of the industry because "just trust me bro"

It sold out, twice.

They provided a graph to show sound and demo'd multiple versions at various shows.

It has experienced folk with years of experience on the team to know this.

Please do not manipulate the term anti-consumer, as crin is being more generous with info that matters

 

[Ishcabible]

People complaining about concealing specs is a weird thing I’ve only seen in the IEM world. There are lots of speaker companies that use off the shelf drivers and I rarely see complaints about them.

I think worrying about the drivers used in a product sold by crin is especially ironic considering the CRN debacle, where people were hearing “BA timbre” only for people to find out KZ was being deceptive and not actually wiring the BAs correctly and they weren’t actually making any useful contribution to the sound. Do people want to know driver makeup so they can be biased in what they expect to hear before actually hearing it?