bfreedma
The Hornet!
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2012
- Posts
- 3,253
- Likes
- 2,645
Lighten up, G.
The two of you have been denigrating him, his profession, and his integrity in multiple threads for days. And now you want him to “lighten up”?
Lighten up, G.
[1[ My crusade is not "against engineers". [1a] My real crusade is against those far less accessible: artists, their producers, and label execs. Those three entities drive density/'loudness' more than anyone else.
[2] What I have against engineers is their touting things like, a "DDD CD sounds better than AAD" or ADD. Marketing statements.
[2a] With that cleared up, I'd like to hear more about how a mix is made 'compression-friendly' for the mastering stage to come.
It's so unfortunate it's come to this, he could tell SonicTruth so much if only he'd listen properly.
1. Then why insult them?
1a. Your crusade is against the wrong people then, because the people who drive density/loudness more than anyone else is consumers.
2. And what I have against you, is the lies you make-up about what engineers are "touting"!! So, that's "that cleared up".
2a. Indeed, "with that cleared up", it couldn't be more OBVIOUS that you do NOT want to know the actual facts!
G
1a. Well then I must be a pretty F-d up 'consumer' ...
2. It's just how I perceived what you and other engineers said on here.
2a. I'm waiting for the facts, on the topic I brought up several posts back, about how modern mixes are made compression-friendly.
1a. you're 1 consumer, want to play a game of all the stuff done by entire countries, that we disagree about? that's life. even more so when we're talking about subjective taste here.1a. Well then I must be a pretty F-d up 'consumer', because I'm not demanding albums be made louder.
2. It's just how I perceived what you and other engineers said on here.
2a. I'm waiting for the facts, on the topic I brought up several posts back, about how modern mixes are made compression-friendly.
@gregorio you're not forced to push on this dialog if you realize it's a waste of your time. but answering to say that it's not worth answering is getting us nowhere.
1a. you're 1 consumer, want to play a game of all the stuff done by entire countries, that we disagree about? that's life. even more so when we're talking about subjective taste here.
2. are you sure sound engineers were the ones to say that? and that they did write what you understood? I know it seems silly, but if we've come this far based only on misinterpretations and misconceptions, now is as good a time as any to make sure.
you've had, to put it nicely, some pretty serious communication issues. if you were a politician, I'd tell you to fire your campaign manager right now, then go kidnap him and cut off his tong so that he can never mess up like he did ever again. that would be the humane thing to do ^_^.
it's super clear that your actual message is "I hate the loudness war". so why do you need to venture left and right into territories you clearly aren't all that familiar with? it started with the DR plugin, and went pretty much everywhere vaguely related to dynamic then compression because after pages you did end up accepting that dynamic wasn't the proper approach. but then for so many pages, people explains how compression is used for everything and vastly different ways and that most uses are indeed making the sound more enjoyable, coherent, cleaner, with the intended sound, or simply more practical. for a time sound engineers were responsible and that's when the DR really hit the fan. understandably IMO. so now we have moved on closer to the actual target and we're mainly discussing the idea of perceived loudness. we're as close as we've ever been.
but do you realize all the mess we went through just because you weren't happy saying "I hate the loudness war!"?
say that the loudness war pisses you off. TBH if you had stuck to that from the start, I and most people would have sided with you.
1. Gregorio said I must be a messed up consumer because I don't demand loudified albums. And just how am I "playing a game" of that?
I googled "music buyers demand music and albums be mastered louder" and came up with nothing. So all I would ask for is proof that consumers did so.
He's right. You are the exception by a huge margin. Making statements that express or imply that your opinion somehow represents a larger group than one is just a game.1. Gregorio said I must be a messed up consumer because I don't demand loudified albums. And just how am I "playing a game" of that?
The proof is, they're buying them, and not returning them and streaming them without objection. Their iPods are loaded with loud music. Second, if a consumer had 3 recordings, and two sounded about the same in loudness, but one was much quieter, which one would the typical consumer think is wrong? Quieter never wins in a comparison, been known for half a century to be true. That translates into "louder is better", and that's what consumers buy. It's not a difficult concept, but you must start out with a viewpoint other than "My opinion is right and typical" to understand it. It's also part of why this can't be fixed.I googled "music buyers demand music and albums be mastered louder" and came up with nothing. So all I would ask for is proof that consumers did so.
He's right. You are the exception by a huge margin. Making statements that express or imply that your opinion somehow represents a larger group than one is just a game.
The proof is, they're buying them, and not returning them and streaming them without objection. Their iPods are loaded with loud music. Second, if a consumer had 3 recordings, and two sounded about the same in loudness, but one was much quieter, which one would the typical consumer think is wrong? Quieter never wins in a comparison, been known for half a century to be true. That translates into "louder is better", and that's what consumers buy. It's not a difficult concept, but you must start out with a viewpoint other than "My opinion is right and typical" to understand it. It's also part of why this can't be fixed.
And "loudified"...ha ha ha! You made up a funny! I think I'll name my next loudness processor the "Loudifier"! And have a knob that indicates Loudification. You should be in marketing!
He's right. You are the exception by a huge margin. Making statements that express or imply that your opinion somehow represents a larger group than one is just a game.
The proof is, they're buying them, and not returning them and streaming them without objection. Their iPods are loaded with loud music. Second, if a consumer had 3 recordings, and two sounded about the same in loudness, but one was much quieter, which one would the typical consumer think is wrong? Quieter never wins in a comparison, been known for half a century to be true. That translates into "louder is better", and that's what consumers buy. It's not a difficult concept, but you must start out with a viewpoint other than "My opinion is right and typical" to understand it. It's also part of why this can't be fixed.
And "loudified"...ha ha ha! You made up a funny! I think I'll name my next loudness processor the "Loudifier"! And have a knob that indicates Loudification. You should be in marketing!
The Loudifier Knob needs to go to 11.
He's right. You are the exception by a huge margin. Making statements that express or imply that your opinion somehow represents a larger group than one is just a game.
What can I do about it?
Evangelize dynamics! Tell your favorite artists and labels (politely) that you value dynamics and are tired of listening to heavily compressed masters. Talk to headbangers at shows, in the mosh pit, wherever, about the value of dynamics in metal.