[nibiyabi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tom hankins /img/forum/go_quote.gif I know a guy who has been surviving on nothing but crack cocaine (and no vitimans) for two years. Next to that the OP diet seems quite healthy.....So yes I think you could survive.

How much do you want to bet that is false?

 

[Lazarus Short]

Humans are a fairly typical fruit-eating primate. Dentition, stomach acids, intestinal length and other features are consistent with other fruit-eating species, rather than grazers or carnivores. The fact that few of us are really fruit-eaters does not change the anatomical or physiological features. Human nutrition is WAY more complex than simple caloric intake + vitamins.

On the other hand, I remember the story of a man who walked out of the Soviet Union, and into Finland? Sweden? I don't remember, I read the story a long time ago. However, for his food supply on this trek, he took LARD and BREAD [Russian bread, a whole different [and better] bread from the American variety which even lab rats can not survive on]. For the times of high exertion, he took chocolate.

There is only one food I know of on which a human can survive just about forever: millet, aka bird seed. The only real drawback is that it has a bland flavor.

Laz

 

[hempcamp]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazarus Short /img/forum/go_quote.gif There is only one food I know of on which a human can survive just about forever: millet, aka bird seed. The only real drawback is that it has a bland flavor.

I ate millet porridge, cake, bread, you name it for 2 years in Africa, and I wouldn't say it has a "bland" flavor, in fact I think it's tastier than wheat.

Some varieties of millet have a substantially higher level of vegetable proteins in the grain than rice, some varieties of wheat, corn, and others. Still, depending on the soil it is grown it, it does not contain enough protein or minerals to be healthy or to develop properly (if you are a child).

When eaten with a high-protein legume like beans, the two proteins (millet and beans, for example) bind to create a very nutritious meal. Alone, however, it is rather meek.

By the way, half whole wheat flour, half corn flour, and a splash of ground millet makes for great, hearty, tasty pancake base!

--Chris (returned health/nutrition volunteer, Peace Corps Mali, '04-'06)

 

[AlanY]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hempcamp /img/forum/go_quote.gif Not only would you miss fiber, but you'd also miss essential proteins and amino acids you wouldn't get from vegetable oils or vitamin supplements. Your hair would thin, your skin would lose pigmentation, you would develop edema. If you've seen photos of children with Kwashiorkor, this is precisely what you could expect to look like.

Yes, good point. I realized this afternoon that I had forgotten about the essential amino acids. So the diet would have to be modified to include proteins, probably through a single daily meal of beans. That would preserve the cost efficiency of the diet.

Quote:

Stage two, you would grow extremely weak (or pass out) and your liver would begin to malfunction because your body would develop a glycogen deficiency. This is the same thing that happens to hypoglycemic diabetes patients who don't get their insulin in time.

Why would this happen? (Assuming we solved the amino acids problem.) Isn't glycogen a byproduct of the breakdown of oils into energy?

 

[hempcamp]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlanY /img/forum/go_quote.gif Why would this happen? (Assuming we solved the amino acids problem.) Isn't glycogen a byproduct of the breakdown of oils into energy?

In simplistic terms, you only have about a day's worth of calories in glycogen at any given time regardless of how many fats you consume. If your body doesn't receive enough glucose because you are eating only fats, it converts the glycogen to glucose at an above-normal rate to provide energy to the body.

Glycogen is an element -- not a by-product -- of the creation of energy. It is a mechanism used to regulate/ration body energy between meals, NOT meant to be a source of energy in itself (which is why an extreme Atkins regimen is dangerous).

--Chris

 

[XxATOLxX]

I imagine that since its liquid it would go straight through you and it would just leak out on the other end.

 

[FalconP]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlanY /img/forum/go_quote.gif Why would this happen? (Assuming we solved the amino acids problem.) Isn't glycogen a byproduct of the breakdown of oils into energy?

Fats (triglycerides) cannot be readily converted to carbohydrates (such as glycogen). Triglyceride is a combination of fatty acids and glycerol; and only the glycerol moiety (which accounts for a tiny part of the whole fat molecule) can enter the carbohydrate synthesis pathway. The (much larger) fatty acid part has to be either 1) broken down to yield energy; 2) reconstituted to triglycerides; or, in desperate cases when the brain is yearning for energy (remember, the brain cannot use fat as an energy source) 3)converted to something called ketone bodies, which can be used by the brain as energy source.

 

[Lazarus Short]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hempcamp /img/forum/go_quote.gif I ate millet porridge, cake, bread, you name it for 2 years in Africa, and I wouldn't say it has a "bland" flavor, in fact I think it's tastier than wheat. Some varieties of millet have a substantially higher level of vegetable proteins in the grain than rice, some varieties of wheat, corn, and others. Still, depending on the soil it is grown it, it does not contain enough protein or minerals to be healthy or to develop properly (if you are a child). When eaten with a high-protein legume like beans, the two proteins (millet and beans, for example) bind to create a very nutritious meal. Alone, however, it is rather meek. By the way, half whole wheat flour, half corn flour, and a splash of ground millet makes for great, hearty, tasty pancake base! --Chris (returned health/nutrition volunteer, Peace Corps Mali, '04-'06)

Thanks for the correction/information, but I still find it to be bland. Given that, and believe it or not, I actually love the stuff.

Laz

 

[britishbane]

If you want to find out how little you can eat and still survive, read the book Gulag. Incredible book.

 

[FalconP]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlanY /img/forum/go_quote.gif Here's a question I've been wondering about: cooking oil (well lard actually) is the most cost-effective item in the grocery store on a calories per dollar basis. Would it be possible to survive -- even thrive -- by eating only cooking oil and vitamin supplements? You'd only have to eat about 15 tablespoons of cooking oil a day. Think of the time and money savings from not eating regular meals, not having to pack a lunch, etc.!

Trust me, the person on this diet regime will spend his whole day craving for food, even if he (just for the sake of argument) manages to obtain all the raw materials to stay alive and somehow avoids all funny biochemical consequences. The hunger-satiety signals in human is more complex than the low-fuel indicator in cars; caloric deficiency is only part of the trigger. You'll need distension of the esophagus and stomach, for example, to stave off hunger. And let us not go to the myriad psychological factors that can modify the hunger signal.

 

[smeggy]

My mum used to love fried bread done in lard. Don't know whether she'd like to live on it.. *yech!*

 

[Uncle Erik]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hempcamp /img/forum/go_quote.gif I ate millet porridge, cake, bread, you name it for 2 years in Africa, and I wouldn't say it has a "bland" flavor, in fact I think it's tastier than wheat. .... By the way, half whole wheat flour, half corn flour, and a splash of ground millet makes for great, hearty, tasty pancake base!

Hey, I love this sort of thing. Do you have any recommendations on where to find/order millet and any other recipes?

And I like Pete Millett, too.

 

[krmathis]

I really doubt it!
If you by survive mean living on this diet for years to come, and not just a week or so.

 

[Lazarus Short]

I keep thinking of more ins and outs to this oil diet. I can't recommend lard for ANY diet, for anyone, anytime. However, olive oil is the "secret" ingredient in the Mediterranean diet, which is said to be the healthiest diet in the world. Olive oil helps the heart, but you need other things too. The only advantage I can think of to the oil/fat diet is good teeth.

Laz

 

[Austin 3:16]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlanY /img/forum/go_quote.gif Here's a question I've been wondering about: cooking oil (well lard actually) is the most cost-effective item in the grocery store on a calories per dollar basis. Would it be possible to survive -- even thrive -- by eating only cooking oil and vitamin supplements? You'd only have to eat about 15 tablespoons of cooking oil a day. Think of the time and money savings from not eating regular meals, not having to pack a lunch, etc.! This would arguably be healthier than ramen, since you could choose healthy oils like olive oil rather than the pure cholesterol and trans fats that make up ramen. The only problem I see is a lack of fibre. Strictly speaking you wouldn't need fibre for regularity since you're not eating solid foods, but apparently the body uses soluble fibre in other ways as well. So you might have to supplement with some kind of fibre source occasionally. But other than that, does anyone see any scientific reasons why this plan wouldn't work?

Just supplement some cardboard for fiber!