Costs of commissioning a Stax T2 DIY Build.
Apr 13, 2012 at 11:15 PM Post #16 of 28


Quote:
My suggestion would be either order a BHSE, or keep the 007Tii and buy an SR-009. If you want to actually be listening to anything within a year, go the latter route. I don't think Justin @ Headamp could build a T2 even if he wanted to. Stax owns the design, and AFAIK it's available for DIY only.
 
Anybody you're going to find willing to take your money and build you a T2 is not somebody you want building a T2.
 

 
This is what the smart money does...
 
 
Apr 14, 2012 at 1:51 AM Post #17 of 28
I never said I was smart... 
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   Starting to visit HF pretty much put an end to that...
 
And don't get your knickers in a wad. I've had so many offers for commissioned builds of amps, including several 'stat amps. But what I want is a T2, and the only way to get one is find somebody who can build it, 'cause I can't. This has nothing to do with serial production. Serious customizing all around. No philosophical dilemma, except perhaps to the hardcore DIY'ers, but I fail to see the difference between a commissioned KGSSHV (about whose quasi serial production nobody cares) and a T2, except that the tinkerer elite may be (or is) offended.
 
Apr 14, 2012 at 6:47 AM Post #18 of 28
Is Stax actually working on a solid-state T2? Or is it just conjecture? I'm interested on solid-state amps for the SR-009, and AFAIK, the only viable options are the upcoming and (somewhat) untested Cavalli Liquid Lightning or the (somewhat) criticized Stax SRM-727II. Any factual info on the matter would be greatly appreciated.
 
Quote:
The KGSSHV has very little in common with the T2.
 
The stax mafia is working on a version of the T2 that replaces the front end
tubes with solid state. Similar to the BHSE, but with more than double the
number of parts.

 
 
Apr 14, 2012 at 7:57 AM Post #19 of 28


Quote:
Quote:
I sure hope you're wrong there. Found a professional shop who was interested in building one, got them the PCBs, and off they went. Costing me an arm and a leg, but less than the 10k quoted above. Had to promise that I wouldn't tell anyone about who's doing it before they're finished, 'cause they're not sure yet if they'll want to build another one 
biggrin.gif

 
What I meant is that DIY T2s are not amateur hour. There's seriously high voltage at play here, and if you don't know what you are doing, that can be dangerous to both the builder and the buyer. At least around these parts, the folks with the skill to actually make them don't take requests.


If this doesn't have enough emphasis, Kevin Gilmore had a chassis bolt burned through it by an accidental short when he was building his. I recall discussion of voltages sufficient for welding being discussed. I personally would be reluctant to ask anyone to build one for me, unless I knew they were very highly capable.
 
 
Apr 14, 2012 at 9:29 AM Post #20 of 28
The T2DIY project was a long time coming but Stax simply refused to give the schematics to anybody.  We have the schematics to pretty much every Stax amp ever designed but the T2 was off limits.  Time for plan B then and I finally tracked down an original SRM-T2 and had it shipped directly to Kevin.  The plan was to completely strip it down and retrace everything but as luck would have it, a full set of schematics were included with the amp.  They were full of deliberate errors like all other Stax schematics so everything had to be double checked but having the full design Stax gave us permission to build DIY units for our use.  The power supply in the stock unit is very much lacking so Kevin designed a new one and I do think a lot of the magic is down to that.  Fit the same PSU to the Blue Hawaii and the amps should be much closer. 
 
The issue of high voltage should not be underestimated and just how temperamental the T2 circuit is.  Mine has been through a lot from bad transformer to parts seemingly breaking the laws of physics but it is a very hard amp to build and to keep it running. 
 
Quote:
Is Stax actually working on a solid-state T2? Or is it just conjecture? I'm interested on solid-state amps for the SR-009, and AFAIK, the only viable options are the upcoming and (somewhat) untested Cavalli Liquid Lightning or the (somewhat) criticized Stax SRM-727II. Any factual info on the matter would be greatly appreciated.
 
 


Stax aren't working on anything like this and there will never be a fully solid state T2.  There has been some work done to make a Blue Hawaii type of T2 which would be fully SS but with EL34's in the output stage but this will probably never be anything that is offered commercially. 
 
You did leave out what is arguably the best SS amp out there, the KGSSHV.  No commercial version as of yet but it is easy enough to build for something so complex.  It's easy enough to have some PCB's made in China and a transformer custom made to the right spec.  The older KGSS is still one of the best there is and Kevin has designed a new amp which has even more output power than the T2.  Stacked SS with downright scary +/-750V power supplies aptly named "this one goes to 11"... 
redface.gif

 
 
 
 
Apr 14, 2012 at 9:56 AM Post #21 of 28


Quote:
If this doesn't have enough emphasis, Kevin Gilmore had a chassis bolt burned through it by an accidental short when he was building his. I recall discussion of voltages sufficient for welding being discussed. I personally would be reluctant to ask anyone to build one for me, unless I knew they were very highly capable.
 



It wasn't a short, it was a punch thru of the insulator due to the voltage. Which arc'd thru a stainless steel screw.
 There is a picture somewhere, but i can't find it. Then the insulators were replaced with 2kv
aluminum oxide insulators. Then the peek screws.
Defintely was scary and impressive at the same time.
 
 
Apr 14, 2012 at 10:30 AM Post #22 of 28
I was referring in my post to viable solid-state options for an average consumer such as myself, i.e., amps available on a commercial basis. Unfortunately, as you stated, that is not the case with the KGSSHV, and Headamp's Justin has indicated in another thread that it's not one of his priorities. With that in mind, if the Cavalli Liquid Lightning doesn't pan out, I wonder if pairing the SR-009 with the SRM-727II or even the SRM-323S, would be much of a mismatch, at least on an interim basis, until something else comes along...
 
Quote:
[...] Stax aren't working on anything like this and there will never be a fully solid state T2.  There has been some work done to make a Blue Hawaii type of T2 which would be fully SS but with EL34's in the output stage but this will probably never be anything that is offered commercially. 
 
You did leave out what is arguably the best SS amp out there, the KGSSHV.  No commercial version as of yet but it is easy enough to build for something so complex.  It's easy enough to have some PCB's made in China and a transformer custom made to the right spec.  The older KGSS is still one of the best there is and Kevin has designed a new amp which has even more output power than the T2.  Stacked SS with downright scary +/-750V power supplies aptly named "this one goes to 11"... 
redface.gif

 



 
 
Apr 14, 2012 at 2:24 PM Post #23 of 28
A stock 727 would be a good match to the 009 but less so with a 007Mk1.  The lack of negative feedback on the output stage makes it sound too warm and wooly but that works well with the 009.  On more transparent amps they sound a bit thin, especially if you push the volume too far. 
 
Apr 14, 2012 at 5:04 PM Post #24 of 28
A stock 727 would be a good match to the 009 but less so with a 007Mk1.  The lack of negative feedback on the output stage makes it sound too warm and wooly but that works well with the 009.  On more transparent amps they sound a bit thin, especially if you push the volume too far. 


Spritzer (or anyone who has heard both), can you sum up the differences between the SR-009 with the 727 vs the 007tII drivers?
I have been reading and searching, but haven't found a comparison...

I listen to classical, vocal, jazz...and mostly watch movies on Bluray -- I know, probably not what most 009 owners do.

My source is an Oppo 95 with balanced XLR outputs.

Many thanks!
 
Apr 22, 2012 at 1:06 PM Post #25 of 28
I think you would be better diverting your resources to an SR009 and a regular amp (I like your Stax 007t/ii, which is my favorite right now)
and top-notch upstream eqpt, like an Esoteric K01, EMM XDS1, or Meridian 808.3 along with super good ICs (Stealths maybe, which are addictive) and power cords (Shunyatas, Elrods, Syn. Rsrch),  and power conditioners (Shunyata Triton or maybe SR Powercell).
This will quickly use up all your budget and then some, but you will not regret because this is what life is all about if you are reading this forum, no matter what anyone on the outside tells you.
 
Apr 22, 2012 at 1:47 PM Post #26 of 28
Giving up on a better amp to waste money on voodoo is NOT what this hobby is about, at least for all of us
 
Quote:
I think you would be better diverting your resources to an SR009 and a regular amp (I like your Stax 007t/ii, which is my favorite right now)
and top-notch upstream eqpt, like an Esoteric K01, EMM XDS1, or Meridian 808.3 along with super good ICs (Stealths maybe, which are addictive) and power cords (Shunyatas, Elrods, Syn. Rsrch),  and power conditioners (Shunyata Triton or maybe SR Powercell).
This will quickly use up all your budget and then some, but you will not regret because this is what life is all about if you are reading this forum, no matter what anyone on the outside tells you.

 
 
 
Apr 22, 2012 at 3:21 PM Post #27 of 28
If movies are significant in your listening then the SVS Realizer's multichannel surround emulation would probably be a big step up in enjoyment - gives outside your head, "real loudspeakers in a real room" sound - as good as the system you calibrate it in
 
 
 
I don't understand the legal theory here:
Quote:
Not to mention that it would be illegal for any shop to start producing them commercially without express permission from Stax

 
 
absent active patents Stax cannot control the reverse engineering, production of "clones" - their copyright, trademark only controls exact copies of their manuals, schematics, PCB artwork, use of their name - redo schematic, artwork by hand for your clone and there's no legal barrier
 
KG could assert copyright over his PCB artwork
 
Mar 10, 2022 at 1:03 PM Post #28 of 28
I think you would be better diverting your resources to an SR009 and a regular amp (I like your Stax 007t/ii, which is my favorite right now)
and top-notch upstream eqpt, like an Esoteric K01, EMM XDS1, or Meridian 808.3 along with super good ICs (Stealths maybe, which are addictive) and power cords (Shunyatas, Elrods, Syn. Rsrch), and power conditioners (Shunyata Triton or maybe SR Powercell).
This will quickly use up all your budget and then some, but you will not regret because this is what life is all about if you are reading this forum, no matter what anyone on the outside tells you.
I don't think power conditioner and cords of the brands you mentioned work well with electrostatic, the conditioners and silver cords will make them even thinner with even way less bass honestly
 

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