Connecting your source directly to a power amplifier

[estreeter]

Quote:

I demoed a Linn Klimax Twin straight from an iBasso DX100 and shocked the salesman with the result. Very likely, as I only use computer-based audio, if I were to set up a regular hi-fi system it'd be with a DAC/pre and power amp.

 
I kinda suspected people would be using the DX100 to audition all sorts of kit - even from a line-in connection to the front of my old CA integrated, its surprising how much 'bigger' a DAP suddenly becomes. Throw in that killer DAC in the DX100 and a proper line-out and I'm not surprised the sales guy was shocked. Did you tell him it was designed in China and cost less than a thousand bucks ? Would have been interesting to see his face. 

 
(I'm waiting for the DX200 - if my experience with the D4 to P4 transition is any indication, iBasso will blow even more minds)

 

[Currawong]

Quote:

I kinda suspected people would be using the DX100 to audition all sorts of kit - even from a line-in connection to the front of my old CA integrated, its surprising how much 'bigger' a DAP suddenly becomes. Throw in that killer DAC in the DX100 and a proper line-out and I'm not surprised the sales guy was shocked. Did you tell him it was designed in China and cost less than a thousand bucks ? Would have been interesting to see his face. 

 
(I'm waiting for the DX200 - if my experience with the D4 to P4 transition is any indication, iBasso will blow even more minds)

 
Yup, I told him what it was, in summary. Turned out though they'd put the wrong price tag on the amp, so it was way above my budget. Damn shame. It made even old, but decent Rogers and Tannoys sound great.

 

[estreeter]

Yeah - I checked some of the Linn prices and almost fell off my chair. Now that IS high-end, at least if you equate price with performance.
 
@obobskovich, I'm going to offend your good self and most of the high-end brigade by asking you to take a quick listen to this (cough, splutter) Youtube vid:
 

 
 
 
I know that trying to audition speakers from a Youtube vid is like handing someone a charcoal drawing of the Mona Lisa, but I was impressed with the relative clarity and bass punch I can discern from the Yamaha actives over the Rokit 8 in this vid - the latter would probably be better as dual-purpose speakers away from that desk. In any case, ignore the electronics and watch the segment which features the NS80M - that is what I visualise for my desktop setup, Mac Mini and all. Like I said, simple. 
 
+++++++++++++++++++ IGNORE THIS ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
 
This is random crap I want to keep in this thread for future reference, Apologies to anyone who staggers across this. 
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfD7RnC7P6Q&feature=related
 
Behringer, Fostex, Rokit (soon to be 10" 3-way), Adam, Event
 
makes an excellent point about not overpowering a small space and mentions room correction software with the Event monitors - 3K for the Opals, 20/20 Bas 1K pair
 
8s are *big* - 15s would be monsters .. Equator look --huge--
 
Andrea from Live2PlayNetwork:
Rockit 10.3s ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZm53RUIscA
 
Difference between nearfield and midfield monitors -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3WLYIGC0GM
 
'trying to reduce reflections around the room'

 

[obobskivich]

I didn't hit play on the YouTube video - it's Yamaha monitors, I'm not a fan (they lean towards bright) - KRKs are one of the few that sit lower imho (I know, heresy!). I like the Mackies you mentioned earlier, and I'd suggest you also try out the newer M-Audio monitors while you're at it (not all M-Audio monitors are worth considering equally). Genelec should always be considered as well. 
 
Regarding the reflections thing - your ideal room will not look dis-similar from Mike's - treatments are a good thing. Doesn't matter what speakers you have (even if they had a perfect 360* polar radiation pattern (and I actually have speakers like this - they can be a nightmare in small rooms with lots of boundaries)). So not only is trying to audition speakers through other speakers a problem - you also need to know what they'll do in your environment. For example, if I move my main L/R speakers (for my theater) forwards or backwards, or side to side, it changes the entire presentation. It can truly be "night and day" - I don't even have to get into tweakophile cables or magical rocks. Just simple pick and place. Headphones can somewhat replicate this phenomenon - move them around your head while you're listening.
 
I'd suggest trying speakers out in person - d'you have something like Guitar Center?

 

[estreeter]

I am currently so far from anything like 'Guiitar Centre' that I may as well be on the moon - I couldnt even buy Bose in this burg (thankfully ..). All that will change when I move to Asia - as I said, months not weeks away. Nothing like going from a town of 7000 to a city of 13 million.  

 
Thanks for your feedback - I am going to take the time to get the 'equilateral triangle' positioning right as it reportedly minimises the impact of the room as long as I remain in the 'sweet spot'. The YouTube vids drove home just how big some of these 'midfield' monitors are - totally unsuitable for what I'm trying to achieve. If I can find speakers which mimic the pluses of my ATH-AD900s, that will make me happy - I just dont like wearing headphones all day long. 

 

[obobskivich]

I'll save you some hassle - you won't ever find speakers that truly replace or mimic the abilities of the best headphone. Even if you put them out in a field. 
 
Give something like this article a looking over (this isn't an endorsement of this company; I like their pictures and articles, and the guy who does the videos doesn't come across like he's had a gallon of coffee that morning):
http://www.realtraps.com/art_basics.htm
http://www.realtraps.com/art_room-setup.htm
 
Just like in the land of headphones we worry about enclosures, and generally like open cans - we should worry about our rooms perhaps more than our cables and amplifiers and all of the other bits. Think about it like having an HD 201 with an MPX-3 - it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. 
Quote:

I am currently so far from anything like 'Guiitar Centre' that I may as well be on the moon - I couldnt even buy Bose in this burg (thankfully ..). All that will change when I move to Asia - as I said, months not weeks away. Nothing like going from a town of 7000 to a city of 13 million.  

 
Thanks for your feedback - I am going to take the time to get the 'equilateral triangle' positioning right as it reportedly minimises the impact of the room as long as I remain in the 'sweet spot'. The YouTube vids drove home just how big some of these 'midfield' monitors are - totally unsuitable for what I'm trying to achieve. If I can find speakers which mimic the pluses of my ATH-AD900s, that will make me happy - I just dont like wearing headphones all day long. 

 

[estreeter]

Agreed - I watched a couple of the Realtraps vids on Youtube and it looks great, but way out of my budget. Just as I cant afford the Stax SR-009 and the amp to drive it, I have to be realistic about my expectations for this speaker rig. I just want to get the best result I can within my budget - it has to be an improvement on a pair of BW MM-1s or the Aktimate Minis. 
 
FWIW, PS Audio have a bunch of marketing claims for the latest release of their PerfectWave DAC, and one of them relates  to my OP - 
 
 

[size=1.5em] Balance control[/size]

It hasn’t escaped us that many of our customers rely on the PerfectWave DAC as their primary music source feeding a power amplifier directly. In fact, that is our preferred method of connection. Many preamplifiers only add an extra layer of unwanted veiling and restricted dynamics to the sound.  Unfortunately the MKI had no provision for adjusting the balance between the left and right channel, thus any mismatched loudspeaker pair or unequal room acoustics contributed to a slight skewed image when using the PWD directly.

The MKII solves that problem with the addition of a balance control, capable of shifting the balance between left and right in small 1/10th of a dB increments adjustable from the new (and supplied) remote control.

 

[obobskivich]

I like what that PS Audio snip described. Knowing PS though, it probably costs a fortune. Got a link?
 
Regarding treatments - you can build your own if you're at least somewhat handy and have some time. Pink stuff, wood, and fabric of your choice. Attach it however you want. Better investment (imho) than cables (you said you have $500 for cables - I'd re-assess your budget to around $1k for the front-end, $2-$3k for the monitors, and $1k for miscelania, which includes treatments, stands, etc). 

 

[estreeter]

Sadly, you are correct - 4K seems to be the retail price for the PWD MKII:
 
http://www.musicdirect.com/p-65456-ps-audio-perfectwave-dac-mkii.aspx
 
They do have a cheaper offering:
 
http://www.psaudio.com/products/audio/media-players/dliii-dac/
 
As we discussed in the other thread, those numbers wouldnt be even remotely 'high end' for many in this crazy hobby, but for me the 8K 7K asking price for the PWT transport (3K) plus PWD DAC are sufficiently steep that they might as well be on the dCS website. 

 

[pyramid6]

You could get something like this.  http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/summary.php?PID=893  It's an integrated amp with a USB DAC.  I don't think you can get any simpler.
 
Computer -> 651a

 

[obobskivich]

Yikes.
 
http://us.marantz.com/us/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?CatId=AVSeparates&SubCatId=0&ProductId=AV7005 Done and done. And this will do a better job. (And yes I expect that you'll use maybe 10% of that unit's abilities, that's fine - you aren't "paying for features you don't need"). 
 
Also, with the ~$2500 you just saved, get the Audyssey Pro Kit (find a dealer that will sell you one, they're like $300-$500) and set the thing up better. Find a guide online if you're clueless. 
 
Pick whatever amplifier, speakers, etc with the remaining cash. 
 
That Cambridge still uses a mechanical pot - why can't high end equipment use quality components? 
Quote:

Sadly, you are correct - 4K seems to be the retail price for the PWD MKII:
 
http://www.musicdirect.com/p-65456-ps-audio-perfectwave-dac-mkii.aspx
 
They do have a cheaper offering:
 
http://www.psaudio.com/products/audio/media-players/dliii-dac/
 
As we discussed in the other thread, those numbers wouldnt be even remotely 'high end' for many in this crazy hobby, but for me the 8K 7K asking price for the PWT transport (3K) plus PWD DAC are sufficiently steep that they might as well be on the dCS website. 

 

[estreeter]

Quote:

You could get something like this.  http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/summary.php?PID=893  It's an integrated amp with a USB DAC.  I don't think you can get any simpler.
 
Computer -> 651a

 
Thanks for that - there are quite a few options in that arena : Centrance PX and several models from Peachtree spring to mind.
 
NAD seem committed to their 'Direct Digital' line, and the flagship is the mighty M2. Reading some of the threads on Audiokarma and Stereo Net Australia, it seems to be general consensus that Class-D amps will eventually overtake Class A/B as the most common design topology - at present, they just cant match the big boys for power.
 
http://www.stereophile.com/solidpoweramps/nad_m2_direct_digital_integrated_amplifier/
 
Although it's convenient to refer to the NAD M2 as an integrated amplifier, it's actually something rather different: the M2 is a multiple-input D/A converter with an output stage that can drive a loudspeaker. Although it has two pairs of analog inputs—one pair single-ended on RCAs, the other pair balanced on XLRs—these are immediately converted to 24-bit digital, with a user-selectable sample rate of 48, 96, or 192kHz. Sources are selected with the buttons below the front panel's blue fluorescent display or with the remote 
 
Sadly, having a DAC and an ADC in the same box as the power amp mean NAD want 6K for this monster, but their M51 has been much more widely embraced by folk who dont appear to have trust funds:
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/602771/nad-m51-direct-digital-dac-impressions
 
When I started that thread in March, I expected a few replies of 'Cant wait to see some reviews' - instead, Head-Fiers seem to have totally embraced NADs DAC. While I'm plugging NAD, the do have a cheaper digital DAC/amp:
 
http://nadelectronics.com/products/hifi-amplifiers/C-390DD-Direct-Digital-Powered-DAC-Amplifier
 
Of course, CA aren't leaping on anyone else's bandwagon - they have their very own 'Class XD' approach. I think I prefer the direction NAD has taken, but the proof would be in the pudding. 
 
http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/summary.php?PID=950&Title=Azur%20851A%20Integrated%20Class%20XD%20amplifier
 
 
At the core of the 840A’s strength is a patent pending, Class XD (crossover displacement) technology.

This unique design gives pure Class A operation at low levels, moving smoothly into an enhanced version of Class B at higher levels. This system should not be confused with Class AB, which inherently generates greater distortion at high levels than a pure Class B design. 

XD technology feeds a controlled current into the output stage in a new way so that the usual Class B crossover point no longer occurs at zero volume - the worst possible position in terms of distortion – but at a significant output level. 

The result is a smooth and linear transition between the two modes of operation, which differs significantly from the abrupt, distorted gain transition of a Class AB amplifier.

 

 

[estreeter]

Quote:

You could get something like this.  http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/summary.php?PID=893  It's an integrated amp with a USB DAC.  I don't think you can get any simpler.
 
Computer -> 651a

 
Actually, you can get 'simpler', and it wouldnt necessarily be a significant drop in sound quality.
 
Rig A:  Computer -> 651A -> passive speakers
Rig B:  DX100 -> active speakers.  
 
Two purchases, one power cable and some very confused faces when people can see on your desk is a keyboard, mouse, two speakers and an 'MP3 player'. No issues with jitter or RF interference, just a solid signal to your actives.  
 
Not the best longterm plan, but if you remember to recharge the DX100 each night it could work. 

 

[wuwhere]

My source, an Oppo 95, is directly connected to my Audio Research D70 Mk II tube power amp, 60wpc. The Oppo has a digital volume control. My amp's input sensitivity for rated output is 0.85v rms. The Oppo can output up to 2v. I'm using it to power my HE-6. I'm using a 10 ohm resistor in parallel for impedance matching from the 8 ohm out of the amp. The resistor absorbs (dissipates) some of the power.

 

[mwilson]

I myself am looking for a good passive balance control. Any ideas?