[Hirsch]

Quote:

Originally posted by Kevin Thank God I know nothing about tubes or I would be tinkering also. PLEASE - everyone - for my wallet and sanity - don't tell me anything about changing tubes!

Heh. This could happen to you:

The scary part is that I've now got twice as many tubes as when I took that picture.

 

[HighwayStar]

Holy crap ! There's hardly room on that bed for the cat ! No wonder he's got his back to you... Where the hell do you sleep ?

I have never seen so many tubes in my life...

 

[joelongwood]

Geez, Hirsch.........and here I thought I was insane!

 

[lan]

we could all borrow from Hirsch

can't you sell some of those tubes?

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

Originally posted by wallijonn kwkarth, Greg Freeman also has the the SAC. If the contention is that the k1000 should be driven from Class A, then why is the sound out of a nOrh SE9 good? Is the SRPP a class A tube amp? Obviously there are other viable soultions to driving k1000s. My take is that so long as there are no dc blocking caps, and provided the headphone jack is directly coupled to the speaker outputs (instead of using a dicreet, isolated, low current op amp) the sound can be acceptable. Perhaps not sublime, like the AKG SAC... as to the crown being too powerful, I'll just have to swap in larger knobs for finer adjustment; and perhaps a knob stop... I may even swap in an ADS ganged volume controller.

wallijonn,
There is no contention. It is simply that with all other things being equal, an amp which is biased into class A operation will tend to have better small signal performance which is audible with discerning transducers and good source. That's not to say that there aren't good, even great sounding amps out there which aren't all class A biased. The HeadRoom Max is a good example. I own one and it sounds great. To my ear, it actually has better small signal performance than the SAC K-1000 even though the SAC is all class A and the Max is not.

The situation that one may find with an amp such as the Crown is that while low level noise and very small signal performance is more than adequate when driving speakers which are drastically less efficient than headphones, even the K1000's, one may find noise and other artifacts objectionable when listening through headphones particularly when not dropping the signal level through a voltage divider network (resistors) when driving headphones through same. You may get away with it with the K1000's due to their relative inneficiency as compared to other cans. Best of luck!! Let us know!

 

[wallijonn]

LOL!

Jeez, Hirsch. I feel for you. Please tell me that those are for more than 1 or 2 amps and/or preamps. You say, you have TWICE that amount, now? That looks like about $2500 worth of valves on that bed. And I have the feeling that you're holding out on telling us about your stash of resistors and capacitors, right?; perhaps some nice 5watt wire wounds, about 3000 metal oxide resistors, some polyproplyene caps, about 2 dozen attenuators, about 10 transformers, 6 cases, 3 dozen tube sockets, .... Heck, let me guess; you have a few oil filled caps in your inventory, right?

Just don't do what I did - I got so disgusted that I practically gave everything away. (It always happens when I move from one place to another).

Ebay can be your best friend. You may even get enough to afford to see a shrink. (I bet you that you'll be getting a few PMs, asking you if you have such and such a tube, made by such and such a manufacturer, on such and such a date, by such and such a plant...

You're now my hero, buddy.

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

Originally posted by mikeg Which can is more revealing than the K1000?

In respects other than imaging and mid-bass performance, IMHO, both the AKG-K501 and the Sennheiser HD-600/Cardas present better articulation and detail in the upper-mid to hf range, and of course both cans do a better job in the low bass department with the HD-600 being the superior of the two. This assuming of course that these cans are being driven by a very good amp.
Cheers,

 

[joelongwood]

Question:
I think I'm getting over the "ugly" factor of the K1000s. Enough so, that they are most likely in my future. I would rather not buy another piece of equipment to drive them, so I would like to use something I already have. Here are my choices-
1. Carver 6250 Receiver with Magnetic Field Power Amplifier technology.....whatever the hell that means.
2. Yamaha CA-1010 integrated amp (1977). According to Yamaha, it can be switched to run in Class A.......again, whatever the hell that means.
3. Dynaco PAS3X/Stereo 70 combo (large and bulky and HOT)
I know it's just about impossible to find out how the AKGs will sound, but I'm curious as to what you guys think might be the most promising of the three choices. Thanks.

 

[Orpheus]

i don't think walli's Crown has "low level noise and very small signal performance"... at least not when compared to most high-$ audiophile stuff.

in fact, most of the audiophile tube stuff has incredibly bad specs. just read the analysis sections in Stereophile. compare the graphs and numbers with an equivalent solid-state amp. well, there really isn't a comparison. if you just saw the numbers without looking or hearing the amp, you probably would throw those tube amps away in the trash can.

i don't know which model Crown is in question... but most pro stuff outputs very clean signal... often much better than high-end consumer stuff. i brought my Hafler p7000 to my friend's amplifier research lab at UCI, and tested it with a $30,000 analyzer. compared to my Monarchy SM-70, which by reviews should have a very warm and desirable sound, the p7000 has significantly less distortion. all my lab friends were very surprised, considering the sm-70 costs more than 20* the price/power. now, of course there's other considerations like the fact that the sm-70 uses no global feedback... and stuff like that, which would have improved measured performance. (people would insist that at the sacrifice of measured performance, the sm-70 would "sound" better.) not only was the frequency response graph much more stable, but the p7000 also had dreastically better low-end performance. in the high-end, the sm-70 was slightly better.

but just based on numbers, the p7000 was a much stronger performer.

the sm-70's a solid state amp.... if i were to test a tube amp... forget it. against the p7000, all the tests would look like junk.

but still... i think Walli can find a better match for his k1000...

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

Originally posted by joelongwood Question: I think I'm getting over the "ugly" factor of the K1000s. Enough so, that they are most likely in my future. I would rather not buy another piece of equipment to drive them, so I would like to use something I already have. Here are my choices- 1. Carver 6250 Receiver with Magnetic Field Power Amplifier technology.....whatever the hell that means. 2. Yamaha CA-1010 integrated amp (1977). According to Yamaha, it can be switched to run in Class A.......again, whatever the hell that means. 3. Dynaco PAS3X/Stereo 70 combo (large and bulky and HOT) I know it's just about impossible to find out how the AKGs will sound, but I'm curious as to what you guys think might be the most promising of the three choices. Thanks.

Option 2 or 3. Try 'em both.

 

[wallijonn]

kwkarth (do your friends call you, "KW" for short?, or just Mr. Karth?), hopefully I won't develope as a discerning ear as you have. I do know that I have heard the SAC, and I also know that all things being equal, not all Class A amps are created equal. Transistors, like tubes, and op amps, each create their own sound. I almost chewed the bit on a Marantz SM6 class A amp. Luckily I recovered my sanity in time. http://www.retroaudio.ru/marantz/amp/SM-6.shtml ah, radiator cooling fins...

I'm afraid I am on the "upgrade path" that does not lead to nirvana. At this moment and time I can not honestly state, "If I only knew then what I know now, I would've bought X amp in the first place and saved a lot of money in the process".

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

Originally posted by Orpheus i don't think walli's Crown has "low level noise and very small signal performance"... at least not when compared to most high-$ audiophile stuff. in fact, most of the audiophile tube stuff has incredibly bad specs. just read the analysis sections in Stereophile. compare the graphs and numbers with an equivalent solid-state amp. well, there really isn't a comparison. if you just saw the numbers without looking or hearing the amp, you probably would throw those tube amps away in the trash can. i don't know which model Crown is in question... but most pro stuff outputs very clean signal... often much better than high-end consumer stuff. i brought my Hafler p7000 to my friend's amplifier research lab at UCI, and tested it with a $30,000 analyzer. compared to my Monarchy SM-70, which by reviews should have a very warm and desirable sound, the p7000 has significantly less distortion. all my lab friends were very surprised, considering the sm-70 costs more than 20* the price/power. now, of course there's other considerations like the fact that the sm-70 uses no global feedback... and stuff like that, which would have improved measured performance. (people would insist that at the sacrifice of measured performance, the sm-70 would "sound" better.) not only was the frequency response graph much more stable, but the p7000 also had dreastically better low-end performance. in the high-end, the sm-70 was slightly better. but just based on numbers, the p7000 was a much stronger performer. the sm-70's a solid state amp.... if i were to test a tube amp... forget it. against the p7000, all the tests would look like junk. but still... i think Walli can find a better match for his k1000...

In terms of global or even stage specific negative feedback... The specs will always (almost) look better when negative feedback is applied, but.... THD distortion specs (specially 2nd order) don't tell the whole story.

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

Originally posted by wallijonn kwkarth (do your friends call you, "KW" for short?, or just Mr. Karth?), hopefully I won't develope as a discerning ear as you have. I do know that I have heard the SAC, and I also know that all things being equal, not all Class A amps are created equal. Transistors, like tubes, and op amps, each create their own sound. I almost chewed the bit on a Marantz SM6 class A amp. Luckily I recovered my sanity in time. http://www.retroaudio.ru/marantz/amp/SM-6.shtml ah, radiator cooling fins... I'm afraid I am on the "upgrade path" that does not lead to nirvana. At this moment and time I can not honestly state, "If I only knew then what I know now, I would've bought X amp in the first place and saved a lot of money in the process".

Hey friend, welcome to Head-Fi...sorry about your wallet!

I wonder if you heard a properly wired SAC? Turns out that many of them were shipped from the factory with one channel reversed phase. Once I fixed that in my amp, it was a completely different amp.

 

[Orpheus]

yes. i agree, specs don't tell all.

but i was just responding to your quote:

"The situation that one may find with an amp such as the Crown is that while low level noise and very small signal performance is more than adequate when driving speakers which are drastically less efficient than headphones, even the K1000's, one may find noise and other artifacts objectionable when listening through headphones particularly when not dropping the signal level through a voltage divider network (resistors) when driving headphones through same."

 

[Hirsch]

Quote:

Originally posted by wallijonn LOL! Jeez, Hirsch. I feel for you. Please tell me that those are for more than 1 or 2 amps and/or preamps. You say, you have TWICE that amount, now? That looks like about $2500 worth of valves on that bed. And I have the feeling that you're holding out on telling us about your stash of resistors and capacitors, right?; perhaps some nice 5watt wire wounds, about 3000 metal oxide resistors, some polyproplyene caps, about 2 dozen attenuators, about 10 transformers, 6 cases, 3 dozen tube sockets, .... Heck, let me guess; you have a few oil filled caps in your inventory, right?

I wish I had the other components. However, my forays into DIY have told me just how good my soldering skills are...for all but the most elementary work, it's best to let someone else do it. However, I do have the necessary skills to change a tube.

OTOH, I just got a second Fisher 400, and I do want to use replace the electrolytics with paper and oil caps. I've heard that they open up the sound of the Fishers a lot. The Fisher 400 is my primary amp for the AKG K-1000, so I've actually managed to make at least one on-topic statement in this post

Actually, those tubes were acquired for half a dozen amps. By my calculations, I should be able to keep my tube amps running for about three centuries before I need to buy any more tubes.

Quote:

Just don't do what I did - I got so disgusted that I practically gave everything away. (It always happens when I move from one place to another).

I'm a pack rat. I have a hard time getting rid of a DEAD tube. Get rid of a good one??? My precccsssiioooouuuuusssssssesssss...

Actually I'm eventually going to sell some of them off. Just not today...

Quote:

Ebay can be your best friend. You may even get enough to afford to see a shrink. (I bet you that you'll be getting a few PMs, asking you if you have such and such a tube, made by such and such a manufacturer, on such and such a date, by such and such a plant... You're now my hero, buddy.

Ebay is the enemy. Every time I go there, I find bargains. I just got a matched quad of 1951 Sylvania 6SN7GT's that arrived today, for all of $9.99. The reason the cat has his back turned is that they are the parallel plate rather than the wing plate version...

joelongwood, yeah, I'm definitely crazy. I've been trying to find the diagnosis in DSM-IV, but they don't have tubes listed in the index...