[Henmyr]

I better put my impressions here instead of polluting Zanth's thread

These are some differences between my vintage and buttonless model. I have no idea why the difference exist. It might be burn in, but my buttonless model should have 300-500 hours on them by now and should be close to the final sound, and currently it's sound is not close to identical to the vintage pair. There is a whole lot of changes required for it to sound like the vintage pair.

EDIT 20090528: Just to not confuse anyone, I called my buttonless pair "'08" because I think that my pair were made in early 2008, or at least sold from vendor then. I think the buttonless models first appeared in late 2007.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
(They are not as red as in this picture)
----------------------------------------------------------------
Round 1, initial impression (11-27-2008):
With flats on both:
The '08 seem to have a slightly faster and lighter sound with more upper mids (female vocals stand out more) and punchier midbass, as have been written before. The brown headband one seem to be slightly more laid back.

I will have to listen more to see which one I like best. More differences may probably appear after some time. One thing is sure, there is no knock-out in the first round so far.

(both should have completed the burn-in by now. My '08 must have many hundred hours on them, and by the look of the flats which came with the brown headband they seem to have lots of hours on them too)
----------------------------------------------------------------
Round 2, bowls (11-29-2008):

*Vintage definitely have a slightly more laid back sound than '08.
* The '08 seem to have a bit more upper mids, female vocals and some male vocals stand out more.
* '08 have a slightly more focused bass thump.
*The vintage seem to have slighly higher resolution/texture for voices and instruments.
*Vintage have a brighter treble, not necessarily harsher though. With the '08 the cymbals seem to be covered by sheets in comparison. The difference is not huge though. The cymbals sound more like real life with the "vintage".
*The vintage pair seem to be a little confused with the bowls, and it doesn't know how to make the best of it. The sound is a little out of focus, where as with the '08 the sound is more defined and focused and pratty.


Pro vintage:
* Higher resolution/texture/detailed mids.

Pro '08:
* More PRAT. The bass thump and more upper mids make the music sound faster and with more euphonic female vocals. Listened to "Roxette - A collection of Roxette hits", and with the vintage I changed songs way more than with the '08, where I instead just sat and rocked out.

It's easy to hear that something is different between the two pairs, but it's rather hard to pinpoint what the difference really is, so the differences are not large.

Winner of round 2:
*************************Grado RS-1 '08*************************
Comment: Today the buttonless '08 version won due to more euphonic female vocals, prat and the more rocking sound. Today, with bowls, I would thus pick the '08 as the winner of the two. I listened to a couple of albums (Therion - Gothic Kabbalah, Asia - Asia, Roxette - A collection of Roxette hits) and they were all more pratty with '08.

The difference is not at all huge, and a change of equipment (source, amps, tubes etc.) might very well make the vintage pair better with bowls.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Round 3 (2008-12-16):

I find my thoughs about the vintage pair versus the newer pair to be very much the same to what others have written about them.

The choice between vintage or buttonless version is not an easy one. The richness and resolution and refinement of the vintage pair is just amazing. The buttonless version however have more of the Grado colouration which is a very nice colouration.

The vintage pair is slighly darker due to more laid back midrange. The midrange of the vintage pair is however more natural.

I wrote before that the vintage pair seem to be a bit confused with the bowls compared to the buttonless version. I now think this is because the buttonless version much more forces it's own sound on every recording, and thus always makes the songs into RS1, where instead the vintage pair is more transparent and let's the song decide the final sound more. It's one thing I find other more neutral headphones like the HD600 also share. It's harder to know what to focus on in the song, where instead more coloured headphones like AD2000 and buttonless RS1 chooses the focus for you.

Going from the vintage to buttonless immediately sounds like a downgrade in resolution, but with more euphonic Grado sound. Going from vintage to buttonless is a bit like turning on bloom or increase the colours of a tv which makes the sound a bit more colourful but at the same time wash over details and texture.

I've never thought that the flat pads were very good with the buttonless version, and I still don't. They are much better with bowls for every type of music (except maybe overly treble harsh recordings, but those are rare). The flats make the sound a bit muffled, and the vocals are a bit unfocused to my ears. The vintage pair works well with both bowls and flats, and I often change pads to fit the current album. The vintage pair is much more airy and open with flats than the buttonless pair with flats.

With bowls, the vintage pair seem to have more treble than the buttonless pair, but it's at the same time more refined, natural, detailed and textured treble. The vintage pair have some of the most realistic sounding cymbals I've heard yet. I've never felt that the buttonless pair was very treble heavy, but the vintage pair with bowls have slightly more treble than neutral.

At first I though that the buttonless pair had better guitar sound, but much of that was because of them being more upfront than with the vintage. The vintage pair have a more natural tone to guitars and more texture, but the guitars are slightly more laid back.

For the moment I am leaning to the vintage pair due to more refinement and higher resolution. I don't know if it's the new toy syndrome, but since I got the vintage pair it's the headphone which have gotten most of the headtime. I do however sometimes miss the energetic sound of the buttonless version, but when changing to it the downgrade in resolution almost always make me swich back. Maybe a source, amp or tube change might make the vintage pair as energetic as the buttonless but without the drawbacks of less resolution.

Winner of round 3:
*************************Vintage Grado RS-1*************************

Comment to round 3:
Are the differences worth the large difference in current market price of the vintage pair over the newer pair after round 3?
I've never been a die hard Grado sound fan. Sure, I've always though the buttonless RS-1 sounded good, and sometimes very good, but they were never the be all end all to me. After round 3 I prefer the vintage pair, but I can see die hard RS-1 fans would find the more coloured buttonless pair to be better. It's hard to tell if the vintage pair is worth the higher market price as every buyer has to decide for themselves. I understand completely why someone would be prepared to pay more for the vintage though, and they are rather rare so the price is bound to be higher as long as there is a difference between them. I like the vintage more at this time (as I've sad a lot) but I have no idea how much I would be prepared to pay to have them over the buttonless pair (I got the vintage pair for a bargain).

 

[majkel]

Thanks for the write-up, and you should definitely try the buttonless RS2's after thorough burn-in. They have lighter trebles, not so forward midrange and are less thick/euphonic than the RS1's. I'm waiting for my friend to receive the RS1's again and make the final comparison. The last time the RS2's were the winner due to more realistic ambience recreation.

 

[DarKu]

thanks for your impressions
I enjoyed the read

Can't wait for my RS-1 to arrive.

 

[Kabeer]

Do you think the button is reflecting treble back into the earcup? Thats why it sounds like it has more treble.

 

[Henmyr]

Thanks guys

Quote:

Originally Posted by majkel /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks for the write-up, and you should definitely try the buttonless RS2's after thorough burn-in. They have lighter trebles, not so forward midrange and are less thick/euphonic than the RS1's. I'm waiting for my friend to receive the RS1's again and make the final comparison. The last time the RS2's were the winner due to more realistic ambience recreation.

I would very much like to listen to RS2 if it pass under my nose

They are not very common in europe however

It seems that the RS-1 is more common here (and maybe elsewhere as well). The GS1000 is also an interesting Grado.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarKu /img/forum/go_quote.gif thanks for your impressions I enjoyed the read Can't wait for my RS-1 to arrive.

If you like 325i and DT880 you will probably love RS-1

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kabeer /img/forum/go_quote.gif Do you think the button is reflecting treble back into the earcup? Thats why it sounds like it has more treble.

Anything is possible. I do not know how the regular RS-1 with buttons sound (the version just before the buttonless version). If it has more treble than the buttonless version the button might very well be it.

All models with buttons might very well sound the same, and the "vintage" part might not have anything to do with it. Impressions from other people seem to indicate that there is something different with the vintage compared to newer buttoned RS1 though.

EDIT: I will not remove the button from my vintage pair to try it though But it would be very interesting

IIRC Maza did remove the button with his buttoned pair and didn't experience a difference.

 

[BushGuy]

Henmyr said "If you like 325i and DT880 you will probably love RS-1" - I can agree with that wholeheartedly.
Furthermore my RS-1 have an 1106 serial - so at best can only call them "semi-vintage". I only mention that fact to put the following in perspective - eventually I owned this pair and also 325i and RS-2 at the same time. In the end there was no choice - the RS-1 were a clear winner to me (and I prefer flats). The other 2 models went bye, bye. I largely agree with Henmyr, but have been unwilling to pay the price penalty for an actual vintage pair of RS-1. The Henmyr quote is more real than some might surmise - my only Grado today are those RS-1, and a pair of Joe Grado HP-2.........everything else is based on Beyer

 

[nikongod]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kabeer /img/forum/go_quote.gif Do you think the button is reflecting treble back into the earcup? Thats why it sounds like it has more treble.

Its not likely

We have compared various buttoned newer production (black headband) RS-1 with brown headbands and the impressions were similar. there are still differences between the buttoned RS-1's we tried.

 

[wolf18t]

It would be interesting to have someone do a comparison between the MS-Pro and the vintage RS-1. I don't have MS-Pro but reading a few older comparo with modern RS-1 it seems that the MS-Pro share some attributes with the vintage RS-1 like neutrality and refinement.

 

[Henmyr]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolf18t /img/forum/go_quote.gif It would be interesting to have someone do a comparison between the MS-Pro and the vintage RS-1. I don't have MS-Pro but reading a few older comparo with modern RS-1 it seems that the MS-Pro share some attributes with the vintage RS-1 like neutrality and refinement.

I've though about this too. The MS-Pro is often described as having a slightly recessed treble though, and the treble of the vintage RS1 is not recessed, but apart from that they seem to be rather alike (from reading impressions of MS-pro).

 

[denl82]

Thank you for your review!!!!!

 

[Seba]

I had the vintage RS-1's for a loan last April from my uncle and from my memory the vintage RS-1's has noticeably more laid back and refine sound. My MS-Pro's sound much brighter and analytical.

If I would have enough money to spend, I would go for the vintage RS-1's in a heartbeat.

 

[noremedy]

Great review, highly informative. Gave me clear indications of the difference between the vintage and newer models. The RS-2 buttonless being better than the RS-1's is certainly an interesting concept! Thanks again!

Ben

 

[ting.mike]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henmyr /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've though about this too. The MS-Pro is often described as having a slightly recessed treble though, and the treble of the vintage RS1 is not recessed, but apart from that they seem to be rather alike (from reading impressions of MS-pro).

Comparing the MS PRO to a non vintage, buttoned RS-1 reveals that the sound is very identical, except the midrange is more forward on the buttoned RS-1. Treble is identical. No recessed treble.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seba /img/forum/go_quote.gif I had the vintage RS-1's for a loan last April from my uncle and from my memory the vintage RS-1's has noticeably more laid back and refine sound. My MS-Pro's sound much brighter and analytical. If I would have enough money to spend, I would go for the vintage RS-1's in a heartbeat.

That's probably the first description of an MSPRO being analytical.


Quote:

Originally Posted by noremedy /img/forum/go_quote.gif Great review, highly informative. Gave me clear indications of the difference between the vintage and newer models. The RS-2 buttonless being better than the RS-1's is certainly an interesting concept! Thanks again! Ben

The RS-2 is different than the RS-1, and though I really like the RS2, I wouldn't say it's better than the RS-1. It's just a different flavour. I agree with majkel: less thick and less forward mids on the RS-2, even less forward mids compared to the MSPRO.

 

[MacedonianHero]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henmyr /img/forum/go_quote.gif I better put my impressions here instead of polluting Zanth's thread These are some differences between my vintage and buttonless model. I have no idea why the difference exist. It might be burn in, but my buttonless model should have 300-500 hours on them by now and should be close to the final sound, and currently it's sound is not close to identical to the vintage pair. There is a whole lot of changes required for it to sound like the vintage pair. -------------------------------------------------------------------- (They are not as read as in this picture) ---------------------------------------------------------------- Round 1, initial impression (11-27-2008): With flats on both: The '08 seem to have a slightly faster and lighter sound with more upper mids (female vocals stand out more) and punchier midbass, as have been written before. The brown headband one seem to be slightly more laid back. I will have to listen more to see which one I like best. More differences may probably appear after some time. One thing is sure, there is no knock-out in the first round so far. (both should have completed the burn-in by now. My '08 must have many hundred hours on them, and by the look of the flats which came with the brown headband they seem to have lots of hours on them too) ---------------------------------------------------------------- Round 2, bowls (11-29-2008): *Vintage definitely have a slightly more laid back sound than '08. * The '08 seem to have a bit more upper mids, female vocals and some male vocals stand out more. * '08 have a slightly more focused bass thump. *The vintage seem to have slighly higher resolution/texture for voices and instruments. *Vintage have a brighter treble, not necessarily harsher though. With the '08 the cymbals seem to be covered by sheets in comparison. The difference is not huge though. The cymbals sound more like real life with the "vintage". *The vintage pair seem to be a little confused with the bowls, and it doesn't know how to make the best of it. The sound is a little out of focus, where as with the '08 the sound is more defined and focused and pratty. Pro vintage: * Higher resolution/texture/detailed mids. Pro '08: * More PRAT. The bass thump and more upper mids make the music sound faster and with more euphonic female vocals. Listened to "Roxette - A collection of Roxette hits", and with the vintage I changed songs way more than with the '08, where I instead just sat and rocked out. It's easy to hear that something is different between the two pairs, but it's rather hard to pinpoint what the difference really is, so the differences are not large. Winner of round 2: *************************Grado RS-1 '08************************* Comment: Today the buttonless '08 version won due to more euphonic female vocals, prat and the more rocking sound. Today, with bowls, I would thus pic the '08 as the winner of the two. I listened to a couple of albums (Therion - Gothic Kabbalah, Asia - Asia, Roxette - A collection of Roxette hits) and they were all more pratty with '08. The difference is not at all huge, and a change of equipment (source, amps, tubes etc.) might very well make the vintage pair better with bowls. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Round 3 (2008-12-16): I find my thoughs about the vintage pair versus the newer pair to be very much the same to what others have written about them. The choice between vintage or buttonless version is not an easy one. The richness and resolution and refinement of the vintage pair is just amazing. The buttonless version however have more of the Grado colouration which is a very nice colouration. The vintage pair is slighly darker due to more laid back midrange. The midrange of the vintage pair is however more natural. I wrote before that the vintage pair seem to be a bit confused with the bowls compared to the buttonless version. I now think this is because the buttonless version much more forces it's own sound on every recording, and thus always makes the songs into RS1, where instead the vintage pair is more transparent and let's the song decide the final sound more. It's one thing I find other more neutral headphones like the HD600 also share. It's harder to know what to focus on in the song, where instead more coloured headphones like AD2000 and buttonless RS1 chooses the focus for you. Going from the vintage to buttonless immediately sounds like a downgrade in resolution, but with more euphonic Grado sound. Going from vintage to buttonless is a bit like turning on bloom or increase the colours of a tv which makes the sound a bit more colourful but at the same time wash over details and texture. I've never thought that the flat pads were very good with the buttonless version, and I still don't. They are much better with bowls for every type of music (except maybe overly treble harsh recordings, but those are rare). The flats make the sound a bit muffled, and the vocals are a bit unfocused to my ears. The vintage pair works well with both bowls and flats, and I often change pads to fit the current album. The vintage pair is much more airy and open with flats than the buttonless pair with flats. With bowls, the vintage pair seem to have more treble than the buttonless pair, but it's at the same time more refined, natural, detailed and textured treble. The vintage pair have some of the most realistic sounding cymbals I've heard yet. I've never felt that the buttonless pair was very treble heavy, but the vintage pair with bowls have slightly more treble than neutral. At first I though that the buttonless pair had better guitar sound, but much of that was because of them being more upfront than with the vintage. The vintage pair have a more natural tone to guitars and more texture, but the guitars are slightly more laid back. For the moment I am leaning to the vintage pair due to more refinement and higher resolution. I don't know if it's the new toy syndrome, but since I got the vintage pair it's the headphone which have gotten most of the headtime. I do however sometimes miss the energetic sound of the buttonless version, but when changing to it the downgrade in resolution almost always make me swich back. Maybe a source, amp or tube change might make the vintage pair as energetic as the buttonless but without the drawbacks of less resolution. Winner of round 3: *************************Vintage Grado RS-1************************* Comment to round 3: Are the differences worth the large difference in current market price of the vintage pair over the newer pair after round 3? I've never been a die hard Grado sound fan. Sure, I've always though the buttonless RS-1 sounded good, and sometimes very good, but they were never the be all end all to me. After round 3 I prefer the vintage pair, but I can see die hard RS-1 fans would find the more coloured buttonless pair to be better. It's hard to tell if the vintage pair is worth the higher market price as every buyer has to decide for themselves. I understand completely why someone would be prepared to pay more for the vintage though, and they are rather rare so the price is bound to be higher as long as there is a difference between them. I like the vintage more at this time (as I've sad a lot) but I have no idea how much I would be prepared to pay to have them over the buttonless pair (I got the vintage pair for a bargain).

Thanks for the great write up. I just actually picked up my buttonless ('08) headphones an hour ago and will have to burn them in.

 

[Henmyr]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacedonianHero /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks for the great write up. I just actually picked up my buttonless ('08) headphones an hour ago and will have to burn them in.

Thanks

I'm hope you'll like them, they are great headphones

Just to not confuse anyone, I called my buttonless pair "'08" because I think that my pair were made in early 2008, or at least sold from vendor then. I think the buttonless models first appeared in late 2007.