[Makiah S]

Quote:

Have to disagree with how they both sound too similar. To me the Magni sounds like a slightly brighter/thinner version of the O2. Less smooth. The Magni sounds cold/thin, but the O2 doesn't. I'm 1000% positive this wasn't caused by the Modi.
 
Instead of the Schiit Stack I would suggest the Modi+O2. Weird, I know.
 
Had the ODAC and felt like the Modi was a bit better in one small area and I could barely tell much difference at all. The difference between the Magni and O2 is much greater. Yeah I know they have very similar measurements.
 
I honestly can't suggest the Magni with brighter headphones (DT-990/K702/Grado SR-325 etc), but the O2 should be fine. I'm using the O2 with the Q701 and it's perfectly OK.
 
Best advice is to try both sets if you can

I'm glad i've now gotten a chance to do that. Probably all just depends on preference. I'm sure they sound 100% identical with some headphones.
 
Loving the O2, but the Modi is my favorite DAC. I prefer it to the HRT MSII, E17 and ODAC. Tempted to upgrade to the Bifrost sometime.
 
If I had just the HD-650 or a warm sounding headphone, the Magni is fine. I just prefer something that sounds great with everything equally.
 
Hate to say it but I liked the Magni even less than the E9. I didn't hate the Magni, but I only kept it for a few months.

Or you could do what I did and go oDac Matrix M Stage <3. Screw both the O2 and the Magni, My matrix is much sexy'r [after market op amp as well]
 
Still lol, good to hear the sound is simmilar, also can you roll OP amps into a O2 or a Magni? As I have a LME 49990 in my matrix and well it's a very NICE improvement over what ever stock crap was in it, so going back to looks, get the one you like best and slap a new OP amp into it. Still I like that the oDac is a touch thinner, it pairs nice with the SLIGHTY warm/Lean LME49990 I run in my Matrix 

 

[techboy]

I don't think either allow opamp rolling.

 

[Makiah S]

Quote:

I don't think either allow opamp rolling.

Uhh tech are you sure -.- 

 

[stv014]

The O2 definitely does allow "rolling" the op amps (not that there is much point doing so, but if you want to, you can). The Magni is discrete (transistor based), so you obviously cannot roll op amps in that.

 

[techboy]

I said I think. That means I am not certain.

 

[adydula]

Yes you can with the O2, but like the designer said its more a less a waste of time....but if u want go for it...
 
Its perfect as it is....
 
A.

 

[tdockweiler]

Quote:

Or you could do what I did and go oDac Matrix M Stage <3. Screw both the O2 and the Magni, My matrix is much sexy'r [after market op amp as well]
 
Still lol, good to hear the sound is simmilar, also can you roll OP amps into a O2 or a Magni? As I have a LME 49990 in my matrix and well it's a very NICE improvement over what ever stock crap was in it, so going back to looks, get the one you like best and slap a new OP amp into it. Still I like that the oDac is a touch thinner, it pairs nice with the SLIGHTY warm/Lean LME49990 I run in my Matrix 

 
I always wanted to try the M-Stage, but I went with the Micro Amp back in the day and i'm glad I did. I also tend to try to go with US built products whenever possible. I imagine the M-Stage and Micro Amp sound pretty similar. They do share the same stock op-amps but this doesn't really mean a thing.
 
I actually bought the O2 as a backup/bedroom amp. I'm so glad it's similar to my Micro Amp. I normally would use the E17 as my amp in the bedroom and I was surprised there was an audible improvement going from the E17 (DAC) to O2 instead of just the E17 as amp/dac. You know...I could have just used my TVs headphone jack, but what fun is that.
 
The O2 does seem maybe like 1.5% leaner in the mids than my Micro, but probably my imagination

. If I had to choose I'd probably go with the Micro over the O2 for the Q701, but who knows.
 
O2+Modi sure is unforgiving of garbage tracks. Even more so with the Q701.
 
I wonder how the O2 and M-Stage compare? I'm guessing maybe close but the M-Stage might be a tad warmer (barely audible).

 

[TMRaven]

Yes there are slight differences between the two combos.  The Schiit are slightly more bright and 'hard/aggressive,' while the Objectives are slightly warmer and more 'soft/laid back.'
 
For the average consumer who's looking to drop less than 300 into a dac/amp combo though, these minimal differences aren't even worth considering, because the the differences in aesthetics, price and international shipping ability are more key. 
 
As much as I'd like to partake in the typical head-fi hyperbole and exaggeration for the sake of comparison, I much rather be honest to the consumer and not mislead them into thinking these differences would lead to hugely noticeable characteristics when they actually buy and listen to the things.

 

[Makiah S]

Quote:

Yes there are slight differences between the two combos.  The Schiit are slightly more bright and 'hard/aggressive,' while the Objectives are slightly warmer and more 'soft/laid back.'
 
For the average consumer who's looking to drop less than 300 into a dac/amp combo though, these minimal differences aren't even worth considering, because the the differences in aesthetics, price and international shipping ability are more key. 
 
As much as I'd like to partake in the typical head-fi hyperbole and exaggeration for the sake of comparison, I much rather be honest to the consumer and not mislead them into thinking these differences would lead to hugely noticeable characteristics when they actually buy and listen to the things.

There you are, just about what you looks better to you.

 

[tdockweiler]

Quote:

Yes there are slight differences between the two combos.  The Schiit are slightly more bright and 'hard/aggressive,' while the Objectives are slightly warmer and more 'soft/laid back.'
 
For the average consumer who's looking to drop less than 300 into a dac/amp combo though, these minimal differences aren't even worth considering, because the the differences in aesthetics, price and international shipping ability are more key. 
 
As much as I'd like to partake in the typical head-fi hyperbole and exaggeration for the sake of comparison, I much rather be honest to the consumer and not mislead them into thinking these differences would lead to hugely noticeable characteristics when they actually buy and listen to the things.

 
I think these minimal differences are very important and you should have mentioned them in your review. It actually would be useful to people.
I would never suggest the Schiit Stack to someone with a bright headphone such as the Grado SR-325is, K701 or DT-990. Not even the Q701!
 
I can't even tell by your review if it's both or just the Schiit Stack that you thought was best suited for neutral or warm headphones.
 
IMO the O2/ODAC is fine with bright headphones..the Modi/Magni...not so much. The O2/ODAC doesn't sound bright at all but some may disagree.
 
I think the differences are enough to make one hate a specific headphone with one of these setups but like it with the other. I'm sure some will disagree.
 
I think the review is a bit over-simplified. So much that it's really not useful to the average consumer.
 
Basically it's making the Magni/Modi out to seem like a clone of the O2/ODAC and it's not. Magni sounds like a slightly more bright/tinny/thin version of the O2. No exaggeration there.
 
Not trying to argue and I hope I don't across as a jerk, but I just hope that people read tons of other reviews before deciding which setup to buy. Try both setups if you can. Schiit has a 15 day trial I think.
 
Right now i'm using O2+Modi and love it. Seems to play well with everything now just like my main setup.
 
Nothing wrong with the Magni and I'd probably have kept it if I had only warm/slightly dark headphones like the HD-650 or HD-598.
 
 
TL;DR
 
If an amp/dac combo is only good with a specific type of headphone, then i'd say that's quite a large difference and it's worth pointing out.

 

[TMRaven]

Not at all.  Magni/Modi  work just as well or unwell with bright headphones like HE-400 and DT990 as the O2/ODAC do.  If I found the Magni/Modi to be too bright and aggressive for bright headphones I wouldn't be using them right now, and would have gone back to the O2/ODAC.
 
'It actually would be useful to poeple'... in what way?  Is that basically saying the review by itself is not useful?  What a load of crap.  I'm here to dispel all the hyperbole and exaggeration that plagues head-fi-- to be real with people.  If someone had a DT990 and bought the Magni/Modi and found it to work well, they would find the O2/ODAC to work just as well for it.  If someone had a DT990 and bought the Magni/Modi and found it overly sibilant and tizzy, they would find the O2/ODAC just as sibilant and tizzy.  It's just as well if I said that if someone had Magni/Modi with the DT990 and wanted more bass, that I would not recommend the O2/ODAC, I would recommend something much, much more different.
 
The differences are not enough to hate a specific headphone with a certain combo over the other.  I'm being a realist here, and that's much more honest and friendly to your average consumer than spewing the common exaggeration that plagues this site and has caused me quite a bit of displeasure throughout my journey because I was misled just like you might be misleading people right now.  For example, I tried to get into the tube rolling business when I had a little dot amp, I changed the stock Chinese tubes to Mullards because a lot of people said they would add a lot more bass depth and warmth.  What a load of ****.
 
Never in my review did I say the Magni/Modi are a clone of the O2/ODAC, that's just your mind at work.  However what I am doing in it is recommending the Magni/Modi over the O2/ODAC wholeheartedly because you get that same great budget sound for a fraction of the price and better aesthetics.  If you need portability, want adjustable gain or you're outside the USA (if Schiit's still doing only usa shipping), then get the O2/ODAC then.  Those are much, much, much better reasons than trying to tweak your headphones with less than a 3-5% difference of sound.
 
If I were comparing two hypothetical 5000 dollar amp/dac setups, I would go very in depth about the smallest of the smallest differences, because at that point the people buying that type of equipment are so separated from reality and far down the audiophile hobby that you need to talk hyperbole with them, because what they're after are those super subtle refinements and differences that come at that price point.  Someone buying 300 dollars worth of amp and dac combined?  They want to have a great amplifier and dac for their headphone.  Recommending something so similar to another because they find a certain aspect of their pairing lacking is not moral at all-- you should be recommending something vastly different. 

 

[tdockweiler]

If the Magni/Modi works so well with bright headphones why did you say in your review it's better matched up with neutral or warm headphones? That's what made no sense for me. If I had a DT-990 I wouldn't want an amp that's "slightly more hard/aggressive". I'd want an amp that doesn't even remotely alter how my headphone should sound. So far i've only found two amps that are equally good with everything. I don't mind some very slight coloration though. To me the Magni had too much. Supposedly it's ruler flat and totally transparent etc. What's weird about the Magni as an amp is that it reminded me of how the Ipod Touch 2G sounds. Neither of them sounded even remotely warm (not that I care!).
 
There is no way I could believe that a DT-990 would be equally as good on a Magni/Modi as the O2/ODAC, but i'll take your word for it I guess.
 
It's just strange to me that I found the Magni to make all my headphones slightly brighter, colder and thinner than they should be. It actually felt like it was sucking all the warmth out of my Q701 (yes, a little exaggeration there). With the O2 it was exactly how it's always been and almost a clone of the Micro Amp. The O2 only sounds bright/trebly if it's in the recording or it's the headphone. Even when switching sources the Magni sounded like it added it's own minor coloration. Ipod Touch 2G LOD cable to Magni was especially bad. I even was stupid and tried a Clip+ to Magni and it was almost unrecognizable (not due to extra distortion). I bet you could connect a dozen different sources to the O2 and the O2 would only sound like what's attached to it (if it has some coloration).
 
I guess we can agree to disagree. It seems like you and I totally hear the O2 and Magni differently. Nothing new there and no big deal. It will be interesting to see more comparisons in the future of the Magni and O2. It seems that a lot of people have said the Magni is a little brighter. You said maybe a 3-5% difference, but I was thinking maybe like 10%

 
Hearing the differences between these can also be due to what headphone is used. I bet if I used my HD-650 the differences would be much smaller. Strangely enough the biggest differences are heard with my KRK KNS-8400 and DJ100. Makes no sense.
 
I really wish I didn't reply to this thread. Not trying to say i'm right and you're wrong. People should just take all reviews with a grain of salt and try them with their own ears. It is kind of strange that I ended up with the Modi + O2. I really have such bad luck with gear suggested on Head-Fi. Most all of it I disliked or got rid of pretty quickly.
 
Sounds like i'm bashing the Magni, but i'm way too picky I guess. I did like it, but only with specific headphones. I actually love the Modi so much that I even want to try the Bifrost sometime. Loving the O2 right now though. I bought it for my bedroom and hasn't moved from my desktop yet since I've been listening to it so much.
 
Oh and I know you didn't say the O2/ODAC is a clone of the Modi/Magni's sound. You really didn't think people would think this when they saw your review? I mean you didn't even really point out a single difference!
 
EDIT:
 
Not sure why I didn't just post "I disagree" instead of posting my stupid opinions and crapping all over this thread. It seems there is plenty of people out there perfectly happy with the Magni/Modi and brighter headphones. Not me! Maybe i'm ultra sensitive to treble or something. Even the Ipod Touch 2G sounds too bright to me.
 
I'm sure there are some who will both disagree and agree with me on how the Magni sounds. Nobody ever seems to hear equipment the same way to begin with...
 
 
 
 
 
 
Quote:

Not at all.  Magni/Modi  work just as well or unwell with bright headphones like HE-400 and DT990 as the O2/ODAC do.  If I found the Magni/Modi to be too bright and aggressive for bright headphones I wouldn't be using them right now, and would have gone back to the O2/ODAC.
 
'It actually would be useful to poeple'... in what way?  Is that basically saying the review by itself is not useful?  What a load of crap.  I'm here to dispel all the hyperbole and exaggeration that plagues head-fi-- to be real with people.  If someone had a DT990 and bought the Magni/Modi and found it to work well, they would find the O2/ODAC to work just as well for it.  If someone had a DT990 and bought the Magni/Modi and found it overly sibilant and tizzy, they would find the O2/ODAC just as sibilant and tizzy.  It's just as well if I said that if someone had Magni/Modi with the DT990 and wanted more bass, that I would not recommend the O2/ODAC, I would recommend something much, much more different.
 
The differences are not enough to hate a specific headphone with a certain combo over the other.  I'm being a realist here, and that's much more honest and friendly to your average consumer than spewing the common exaggeration that plagues this site and has caused me quite a bit of displeasure throughout my journey because I was misled just like you might be misleading people right now.  For example, I tried to get into the tube rolling business when I had a little dot amp, I changed the stock Chinese tubes to Mullards because a lot of people said they would add a lot more bass depth and warmth.  What a load of ****.
 
Never in my review did I say the Magni/Modi are a clone of the O2/ODAC, that's just your mind at work.  However what I am doing in it is recommending the Magni/Modi over the O2/ODAC wholeheartedly because you get that same great budget sound for a fraction of the price and better aesthetics.  If you need portability, want adjustable gain or you're outside the USA (if Schiit's still doing only usa shipping), then get the O2/ODAC then.  Those are much, much, much better reasons than trying to tweak your headphones with less than a 3-5% difference of sound.
 
If I were comparing two hypothetical 5000 dollar amp/dac setups, I would go very in depth about the smallest of the smallest differences, because at that point the people buying that type of equipment are so separated from reality and far down the audiophile hobby that you need to talk hyperbole with them, because what they're after are those super subtle refinements and differences that come at that price point.  Someone buying 300 dollars worth of amp and dac combined?  They want to have a great amplifier and dac for their headphone.  Recommending something so similar to another because they find a certain aspect of their pairing lacking is not moral at all-- you should be recommending something vastly different. 

 

[TMRaven]

When I originally wrote my 'how do they sound?' section of the review, I intended it to be from the point of view of someone who had already heard the O2/ODAC and wanted to know how the-- then new-- Magni/Modi would sound in comparison.  I've since then edited (a couple hours ago) it to take into consideration both setups to someone who's never heard either one.  I originally meant and still meant that it wouldn't ultimately be idea for both setups to be used with bright/thin headphones, however they're still great improvements for such headphones compared to nearly all onboard solutions.
 
 
Most of your post sounded like one big confirmation bias for the O2/ODAC being perfectly neutral whereas the Magni/Modi are not-- are you being suckered in by voldermort's propeganda?  You can't make ultimate/stand-alone assumptions like that saying one is perfectly neutral whereas the other one is not.  That's a pet-peeve of mine.  Everything in this hobby is relative and should be relative to one another.  You have no idea if the O2/ODAC is perfectly uncolored while the Magni/Modi is brighter than normal, because you'll always be comparing different components' sounds and you'll always be including the headphone's sound as part of the comparison.  Yes, you can hear as much source components as you want and say 'O2/ODAC sound exactly like how it's always been,'  but at the same time I could say to you 'it could have always been colored to start with.'  Saying Magni/Modi is ever-so-slightly more aggressive and bright compared to the O2/ODAC is where you should end the comparison.

 

[tdockweiler]

Quote:

When I originally wrote my 'how do they sound?' section of the review, I intended it to be from the point of view of someone who had already heard the O2/ODAC and wanted to know how the-- then new-- Magni/Modi would sound in comparison.  I've since then edited (a couple hours ago) it to take into consideration both setups to someone who's never heard either one.  I originally meant and still meant that it wouldn't ultimately be idea for both setups to be used with bright/thin headphones, however they're still great improvements for such headphones compared to nearly all onboard solutions.
 
 
Most of your post sounded like one big confirmation bias for the O2/ODAC being perfectly neutral whereas the Magni/Modi are not-- are you being suckered in by voldermort's propeganda?  You can't make ultimate/stand-alone assumptions like that saying one is perfectly neutral whereas the other one is not.  That's a pet-peeve of mine.  Everything in this hobby is relative and should be relative to one another.  You have no idea if the O2/ODAC is perfectly uncolored while the Magni/Modi is brighter than normal, because you'll always be comparing different components' sounds and you'll always be including the headphone's sound as part of the comparison.  Yes, you can hear as much source components as you want and say 'O2/ODAC sound exactly like how it's always been,'  but at the same time I could say to you 'it could have always been colored to start with.'  Saying Magni/Modi is ever-so-slightly more aggressive and bright compared to the O2/ODAC is where you should end the comparison.

 
LOL yes i'm a complete O2 Fanboy now! OK, not really, but maybe soon? I'm getting there! I AM a Headroom Micro Amp fanboy for sure. I really haven't read a lot about the O2 design but have read his page a few times. I actually didn't even know who voldemort was until a few months ago. I actually get tired of hearing "it's a wire with gain". Or how if my Modi sounds any different than the ODAC it's colored!
 
I actually felt my Micro Amp was like MY definition of what a transparent headphone amp would sound like. Took me years to really figure this out. I kept blaming it for things when it was my DACs fault

When I attach a headphone up to it it always sounds no different than how it normally should. Just some minor improvements but the same sound. If I attach a Fuze+ it sounds like a Fuze+. To make it sound REALLY bad I can hook my portable CD player up. With my Micro there is no such thing (for me) as synergy. Sometimes extra warmth from the E17's DAC is nice though.
 
When I got the O2 I was pretty shocked how little difference there was between the Micro. I don't even know what a truly transparent headphone amp sounds like. I'm betting on the Micro and something that alters my headphone and DACs sound as little as possible.
 
So because of my other amp i'm pretty confident that the O2 is pretty transparent. Actually I don't even care! I just want my headphone to not sound dramatically different.
 
You know what's weird? Why are ALL transparent dacs/amps almost always labeled as thin/bright/cold etc? I never got that with the Micro Amp, Modi or ODAC. Both of them only sounded that way with bad recordings or it's the headphones fault.
 
It's always possible the O2/ODAC isn't as transparent as people say. I don't really care much. Maybe the Modi/Magni is the most transparent setup ever made and I just don't like it as much? I prefer an amp that doesn't sound cold and doesn't sound warm. There I go again sounding like one of his minions, but I'm serious. Oh and of course it can be warm/cold due to the recording of course, but not because of the amp itself.
 
Strangely if you compare the O2 and Micro, the O2 sounds like 1% colder. Is that annoying to hear?

Pretty sure I was hearing things. The O2 sure does sound crystal clear though with good recordings. Not sure why. Basically that's the only major thing that sticks out for me.
 
 
EDIT:
 
Oh I know the Modi/Magni is neutral on paper. I saw the measurements. So many different amps/dacs are ruler flat but sometimes almost never sound that way. For example, the E10 sounds too dark and the E17 is perfect to me and had just a slight touch of warmth. I must be the only one who dislikes the E10 and E7 but loves the E17. They even use the same chipsets I believe (not that this matters). Lots of my portable players sound bright yet measure flat. Sometimes I think i'll never understand why. I hate the Ipod Touch 2G sound and it's not really that I need a warm sounding device. 

 

[TMRaven]

Probably because transparent is a word that's shamefully used too much on head-fi where nobody really knows what it means.  At least, if they do, I know I've seen it used to represent 100 different ideas.  At least it's not as bad as musical or dynamic.