[datura647]

I've had my HD650 in it's current setup for a while now. I recently got a pair of PX100s to go with the Sansa Fuze that was given to me as a gift. First of all, these are some great headphones, especially for the price. The bass sounds really nice, it gets very low and it always sounds pretty well-defined. I just plug them straight into the Fuze, all my music sounds very good. Comparing some tracks on the HD650, the bass seems a lot more "weak" on the 650. Is this just the reproduction of the "true" level the bass should be, or can this indicate an underpowered amp? Another thing is that the 650's speakers are farther away from my ears, while the px100's are directly on my ear. I guess most of the specific tracks with the bass I am talking about are hip-hop, trip-hop, is the HD650 considered to be a bad headphone for hip-hop? Anybody have any similar experiences or any other thoughts?

 

[peanuthead]

I have both. PX100 has surprisingly deep and impactful bass reproduction for a portable headphone, but I don't think it surpasses HD650 in bass impact or extension. Certainly, PX100 sounds a lot better than HD650 when both are plugged into my iPod, but when properly amped, HD650 is in whole another class.
I prefer HD650 for jazz, acoustic and classical. It's certainly decent for hip hop, but I prefer Denon D2000 for that.

 

[lgn]

I'm not very familiar with your home amp, but I can say that the Bithead did not power the HD650 very well when I tried them. But I gotta admit, I do love those PX100's.

 

[datura647]

Yeah I couldn't stop raving about the PX100's - definitely glad I made that purchase. The thing about the bass is that I don't feel I am getting the deep and impactful bass out of the HD650 that I'm getting with the PX100. While the bass on the 650 is more refined and detailed every time, I feel maybe the quantity is missing. I agree that the HD650 is on another level, but when I hear the bass from the PX100's I feel like perhaps the 650 wasn't the best choice for the music I listen to? Here is a list of music I listen to, starting with what I listen to most.

Hip-hop/trip-hop, rock (classic and otherwise), reggae, electronica, jazz/blues, classical

Could it also be that my amp needs to be upgraded? I found the specs to my amp, they are:

Maximum amplification factor 3.0 (+ 10 dB)
Maximum output voltage Vp
12V at 4V analog input
2.8V at USB digital input
Maximum output current 250 mA
Crossfeed filter (stereo, low)
Gold-plated input jacks.
Silver plated headphone jack (Neutrik).
Silver plated heavy duty switches.
Alps Blue Potentiometer.
7 Watts toroidal transformer.
110V and 220V selectable.
Power uptake 4 Watts
Built-in groundloop breaker.
Low impedance electrolytic buffer capacitors. Total Buffer capacity 22.000 uF.
Polyesterfilm bypass capacitors in the power supply.
Polystyrol and polypropylen capacitors in the signal path.
Metalfilm resistors in the signal path.
Double sided PCB with 70 um copper.
LM6171 opamps biased into class-A using LM334 current sources.
BUF634 buffer amplifiers at each output channel.
Built-in USB-DAC (PCM2704, 16 bit, 32/44/48 kHz)
Star-grounding.
Ultra short signal paths.
Signal paths and signal path components at the bottom side of the PCB for maximal shielding.
Sturdy aluminium enclosure.
Weight: 2.2 kg.
Size: 23.1 x 18.7 x 8.7 cm.

suggestions?

 

[WittyzTH]

I ever had HD650 and Corda amp combo (Opera specifically.) I was a bit disappointed but when I tried HD650 with other amps at the meet, I really love how the Senn sound.

 

[datura647]

Which amps specifically did you like with the Senns? Also what music did you listen to on that setup?

 

[anadin]

Your amp is clearly not up to the job of properly driving the HD650's.

 

[WittyzTH]

MPX3, Beta22 and headroom Max Desktop. I listen to rock stuff (Dream Theater) for auditioning those amps.

 

[RedSky0]

I find PX100s from a portable have horribly bloated bass, which while relatively deep spikes more in the midbass section and overall lack high treble. I'd listen to my HD600s through a portable any day, as I find them universally better.

 

[datura647]

Yeah, the more I read/think about it, I think my amp is insufficient. The Darkvoice 3322 looks very good from the reviews, I think I'll try to save up for that...

 

[lucky]

^ LOL. Maybe by the time you've spent about $800 (amps + phones + dac + cables), the expensive phones will sound as good in the bass department as the $40 phones plugged straight into a dap.

 

[kmhaynes]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedSky0 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I find PX100s from a portable have horribly bloated bass, which while relatively deep spikes more in the midbass section and overall lack high treble.

That's the exact same reason why I sold my PX100, even after 100+ hours of burn in trying to coax out of it SOME simblance of highs -- but no. It was also way to airy for me -- I felt like the sound was just floating in from somewhere undefined. My Grado SR80 is a bit more present

-- under-statement of the year!

 

[avan]

ive had my px100s for quite some time and i actually just purchased some hd650s I'm really thinking its just your amp, because from what I have been reading here and all over the internet the hd650s are supposed to be sort of the star of sennheiser so they should out preform their very very little sibling with ease (properly amped of course.)

 

[fjrabon]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucky /img/forum/go_quote.gif ^ LOL. Maybe by the time you've spent about $800 (amps + phones + dac + cables), the expensive phones will sound as good in the bass department as the $40 phones plugged straight into a dap.

I sometimes just don't get this crusade you're on. It's one thing to enjoy the ease of use of cheap headphones out of a DAP. However, I don't get constantly laughing at people who want a really HiFi sound. It takes a lot of power to get really great sound. More than can be output from a DAP. When headphone companies make headphones that can be sufficiently powered straight from a DAP they are well aware of the fact that they are making sacrifices.

I just don't get why you think its so hilarious that a 300 ohm headphone that is specifically designed to be used with a high powered headphone amp needs a high powered headphone amp? This is the flagship headphone (hd800 still hasn't shipped) of the perhaps the biggest name headphone company in the world. the guy isn't saying he needs new cables or anything. He said he thinks his amp needs more power. He also didn't say he liked the PX100's better, he said he wasn't getting the bass impact he thought he should.

I have a great little set of audigy desktop speakers, and I have a full blown JBL rig with 4 15" woofers and two dedicated top end cabs. Would you make fun of me for saying I need a $1000 amp to make them even come close to the audigys?

 

[wavoman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by peanuthead /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have both. PX100 has surprisingly deep and impactful bass reproduction for a portable headphone, but I don't think it surpasses HD650 in bass impact or extension. Certainly, PX100 sounds a lot better than HD650 when both are plugged into my iPod, but when properly amped, HD650 is in whole another class. I prefer HD650 for jazz, acoustic and classical. It's certainly decent for hip hop, but I prefer Denon D2000 for that.

x2. This is a perfect summary -- just substitue 600 for 650 and I agree, from my very own first-hand experience, 100%. BTW, for classical I belive 600 trumps 650. Anyway I love my PX-100s, I wouldn't leave home without them, I have called them "Senns gift to the world". But still they are a portable phone and don't come close to the 600 or 650.

My wife has the D2000, and of course its bass is better -- it's a closed phone!

No doubt the amp is the problem. 600s and 650s need good amps. I think the Head-Direct EF-1 with a good 12AU7 will bring out a lot in these phones, and it is cheap! See also hiflight's mod.

That's what these posters are telling you, man -- the Senns don't love your old Meier Audio amp ... so change it up.