Oct 5, 2010 at 4:32 PM Post #46 of 95
At the moment runnig asus Xonar D2/PM
And everything else you just said was totally out of my league and I didnt really get what you were saying by putting a transformer between PC and the amp? Any examples.
 
Oct 5, 2010 at 4:41 PM Post #47 of 95
NHT (now hear this) has a passive volume controller with an isolation transformer.
 
The idea is that even going SE-SE you break up ground loops. In extreme cases like you may find in amps with virtual grounds (OK, so not a problem here but...) it may save the whole thing from blowing up as happened to me.
 
It is very easy to get a balanced output from a transformer (center tap the actual windings, or make one out of 2 resistors to ground) so a transformer box actually buys you a lot of stuff. 
 
There are a few companies that make simple SEinput, balanced outs with transformers. Its not too hard to DIY, but something like this:
http://www.edcorusa.com/Products/ShowProduct.aspx?ID=67
isnt particularly expensive either. The connectors have to be wired by hand, but thats simple. If you want super-high-quality, better transformers are available elsewhere, but Edcor transformers are not terrible. 
 
Oct 5, 2010 at 4:52 PM Post #48 of 95
Very interesting and completely new information for me...
 
Oct 5, 2010 at 5:04 PM Post #49 of 95
Thats a sidestep from the main topic but since im searching this amp for my HD650's for now Ill ask anyways. So here goes...
 
I have had the 650's for a week by now and thy are driven by DIY Morgan Jones Clone which should be plenty powerful but somehow I feel that the bass and the lower mids get somehow mixed? Is that something that can be caused by underpowered 650's? I dont remember exactly what its power output was but I can turn it so loud it would explode my head but it doesnt change change the fact its somewhat muddy....it uses 6N1P valves (russian). This amp preformed brilliantly for my HD595's by adding some warmth and a great deal of soundstage to them but with 650's it just doesnt sound right. Even my Marantz PM-70 poweramp does better with its headphone circuit but im not using it because it has hiss...but in general 650's sound quicker via marantz.
 
Oct 5, 2010 at 8:13 PM Post #50 of 95
dude..
how about corda concerto...I think it`s comparable with 2ch beta22..
smily_headphones1.gif

 
Oct 5, 2010 at 8:19 PM Post #51 of 95
Price is right indeed have to research it abit, at the moment phoenix seems to be a better deal but who knows...
But then again if I were to take the b22 It would most likely be 3channel one...
 
Oct 5, 2010 at 8:30 PM Post #53 of 95
Any idea how B22/Phoenix/Concerta go with K701/702? In one or two words 
Also is this forum only for stabbing yourself into your wallet? I mean yes I dont have to give in to upgraditis...
I mean sure I read about sound science and get some other information but as someone who has natural tendency to tilt towards hi-fi gear and likes music alot it causes this itch to get new gear thats shiny and plays music like you have never heard it before... The first time I heard audiophile quality headphones I almost got a tear in my eye cause of the music nirvana I found myself in so I would like that to happen again :P
 
Oct 5, 2010 at 9:01 PM Post #54 of 95
 
Quote:
Thats a sidestep from the main topic but since im searching this amp for my HD650's for now Ill ask anyways. So here goes...
 
I have had the 650's for a week by now and thy are driven by DIY Morgan Jones Clone which should be plenty powerful but somehow I feel that the bass and the lower mids get somehow mixed? Is that something that can be caused by underpowered 650's? I dont remember exactly what its power output was but I can turn it so loud it would explode my head but it doesnt change change the fact its somewhat muddy....it uses 6N1P valves (russian). This amp preformed brilliantly for my HD595's by adding some warmth and a great deal of soundstage to them but with 650's it just doesnt sound right. Even my Marantz PM-70 poweramp does better with its headphone circuit but im not using it because it has hiss...but in general 650's sound quicker via marantz.


Teh 650's are weird headphones. Very Very weird. 
 
They are sometimes a little on the slow side, yet they dont *really* miss much. They are comfy to listen to for hours on end, but you can still pick out details. They are VERY VERY critical of problems "upstream" in the Amp and DAC.
 
Now that thats out there, your comments are not too far from my own opinions of the 650. OTOH, muddy is a little far IMO. It is possible that you have mixed up "too much of a good thing" by combining the slightly layed back HD650 with the slightly layed back Morgan jones (and its clones), although for many listeners a morgan jones and the 650's is about the definition of perfection. 
 
Before starting up on the amp thing, do you have another source to try? Anything? Can you maybe borrow an older CD player from someone? Im always suspicious of soundcards, perhaps its just prejudice. If you hear things change, its your soundcard although from your description of the way your marantz amp sounds, its more likely the MJ. 
 
If you do get to the amp... perhaps rolling tubes would help. Im not normally much of a tube roller, so I cant help, but there are a bunch of threads around on the subject with several amps. As you guessed this can get expensive quickly.
 
Regarding power:
The word power bothers me the way its normally used 'round these parts. Something like a simple cmoy with 2 9V batteries (for example) can put more power into the HD650 than the Morgan Jones - we can measure it easily but the cmoy sounds like poo to many. Its not power. What most people mean when they say "lacks power" is sounds like crap. If there was a head-fi dictionary, I would put the phrase "lacks power" in to mean "sounds like poo". When you see someone say "lacks power" read it that way, 99% of the time thats what it means. On rare occasions people have actually been known to use all the power available to them to run their headphones. There are 2 kinds of people in this camp: people using orthodynamics and people who listen really loud. most people's standards of loud dont even begin to describe... 
 
Very few people need more power, they need an amp (or source, I have seen sources described as lacking power - this makes absolutely no sense from a power standpoint...) that sounds more like what they want it to sound like. Describing the sound they have (which you did, bonus round!) and the sound you would rather have is about a zilion times better than "lacks power" which could mean any number of things.
 
If you can make it to a headphone meet, I would go out of my way to get there. Try to set up your amp (the MJ clone) next to someone who has a high power SS amp. See what you can hear. if you like the differences the big SS amp brings, go for it! If you dont, its more hunting in the tubes...
 
 
Quote:
Also is this forum only for stabbing yourself into your wallet? I mean yes I dont have to give in to upgraditis...
 


He gets it! It takes some people forever to figure this out. 
 
Sorry about your wallet.
 
Oct 6, 2010 at 12:27 PM Post #55 of 95
I guess you are right and saying its muddy might be abit too much but when I spoke of low and low-midrange mixing alittle I still think they do.
Its actually strange in some cases it doesnt do that and im not quite sure yet what the changing factor is also I must admit that it seems that they are still burning in and getting better or is it me adjusting from HD595's signature?
The reason I spoke about power like i did was some review I happened to read here in the forums about underpowered 650's and it mentioned underpowered phones having similar symptoms.
Also I am listening quite loud but since I moved to Hi-Fi headphones my loudness levels have dropped during the last year or so but there are still sessions where I like to listen stuff at ear-splitting volumes alltough its happening less and less and I can still hear when water is left dripping in the bathroom so I havent lost my hearing yet.
 
Thanks for the insight :0
 
Oct 6, 2010 at 8:18 PM Post #56 of 95
I never heard the HD 650, but I had the HD 600 for over 2 years and listened to them a lot. I would agree they sound "muddy", yet smooth at the same time. Not necessarily a bad thing, but they are a very vague and unfocused headphone. Everything sounds diffused all over the place.
 
Apparently this is due to the speed of the driver, being slower than a lot of more recent stuff, but I cannot say with certainty what causes it.
 
They do tone perfectly to me and are pretty balanced, but they were too smooth and muddy for me to warrant keeping. Definitely has more pros than cons compared to most headphones in it's range though.
 
Oct 6, 2010 at 8:24 PM Post #57 of 95
Well I thought I wouldnt say that but now im suddenly very interested in AKG K701/2 series. Or maybe beyer's 880's. I am not yet ready for electrostatics though....
 
Oct 6, 2010 at 8:30 PM Post #58 of 95


Quote:
Well I thought I wouldnt say that but now im suddenly very interested in AKG K701/2 series. Or maybe beyer's 880's. I am not yet ready for electrostatics though....


 
Bleh can't say I recommend the AKG, but who knows. All those models are more or less on par though. The AKG is more detailed, sure, and offers a much larger soundstage that is infinitely better defined, but they sound weird and tonally incorrect to these ears. Everything has a plastic sound to it and it drove me nuts.
 
check out the LCD-2 before you plunk down tons of money on stats. Only logical because you have to build a whole new system, minus source, for the Stax. So if you go for a nice balanced dynamic amp, it won't play stax.
 
If you demo and are overly taken with stats you can always sell all your gear :P though.
 
Oct 6, 2010 at 8:49 PM Post #59 of 95
the B22/K702 are my reference pairing, but equally enjoyable is the cheaper M3/K601.  the K601 is a very "neutral" and "flat" sounding HP and less idiosyncratic than the K70x.  the M3 gives the K601 a kick in the pants with better treble and bass.
 
Oct 6, 2010 at 9:25 PM Post #60 of 95


Quote:
 

Teh 650's are weird headphones. Very Very weird. 
 
They are sometimes a little on the slow side, yet they dont *really* miss much. They are comfy to listen to for hours on end, but you can still pick out details. They are VERY VERY critical of problems "upstream" in the Amp and DAC.
 
Now that thats out there, your comments are not too far from my own opinions of the 650. OTOH, muddy is a little far IMO. It is possible that you have mixed up "too much of a good thing" by combining the slightly layed back HD650 with the slightly layed back Morgan jones (and its clones), although for many listeners a morgan jones and the 650's is about the definition of perfection. 
 
Before starting up on the amp thing, do you have another source to try? Anything? Can you maybe borrow an older CD player from someone? Im always suspicious of soundcards, perhaps its just prejudice. If you hear things change, its your soundcard although from your description of the way your marantz amp sounds, its more likely the MJ. 
 
If you do get to the amp... perhaps rolling tubes would help. Im not normally much of a tube roller, so I cant help, but there are a bunch of threads around on the subject with several amps. As you guessed this can get expensive quickly.
 
Regarding power:
The word power bothers me the way its normally used 'round these parts. Something like a simple cmoy with 2 9V batteries (for example) can put more power into the HD650 than the Morgan Jones - we can measure it easily but the cmoy sounds like poo to many. Its not power. What most people mean when they say "lacks power" is sounds like crap. If there was a head-fi dictionary, I would put the phrase "lacks power" in to mean "sounds like poo". When you see someone say "lacks power" read it that way, 99% of the time thats what it means. On rare occasions people have actually been known to use all the power available to them to run their headphones. There are 2 kinds of people in this camp: people using orthodynamics and people who listen really loud. most people's standards of loud dont even begin to describe... 
 
Very few people need more power, they need an amp (or source, I have seen sources described as lacking power - this makes absolutely no sense from a power standpoint...) that sounds more like what they want it to sound like. Describing the sound they have (which you did, bonus round!) and the sound you would rather have is about a zilion times better than "lacks power" which could mean any number of things.
 
If you can make it to a headphone meet, I would go out of my way to get there. Try to set up your amp (the MJ clone) next to someone who has a high power SS amp. See what you can hear. if you like the differences the big SS amp brings, go for it! If you dont, its more hunting in the tubes...
 
 
 

 
good stuff above.  then throw in the gain of the amp and the psychological effect of knob rotation with many feeling that a perfectly powerful amp "sounds under-powered" because the dial is at 2 o'clock.  that being said, i'm really enjoying my K702 powered by my 25W F5 (gain 15dB) with B1 buffer and a y2 DAC for source that outputs 1.4Vrms.  i'm listening to Nirvana - Unplugged at 75-80dB with the B1 volume at 11 o'clock.  i'm preaching to the choir here.
 
   
 
 
 
 

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