[dcfly]

Something I've always wondered about is when people say that a certain pair of headphones "color the sound" more than others, how do they really know? Maybe what they think is uncolored is really colored, and what is colored is uncolored. How can a person ever really be sure without some sort of tedious and time-consuming manipulation of sound measuring equipment? Even then, a person still can't be totally sure.

 

[bangraman]

I didn't know this until a few months ago, and I didn't really twig onto this coloured or not evaluation until I got the ATH-W2002. Mowing your way through lots of phones is the best way to discover (or make your own evaluations) for coloured and uncoloured. It's whether the sound has a particular stain that detracts from or adds to what you consider to be like the original. It's not down to detail or soundstage or the normal things I might look for, although if the phones are superior in general audio reproduction regard, it does make colouring easier to judge.


Like practially all headphone/audio experiences, it's subjective so you shouldn't read too much into it. But with some phones, it's very obvious once you start realising what to look for.

 

[Tomcat]

Quote:

Originally posted by bangraman It's whether the sound has a particular stain that detracts from or adds to what you consider to be like the original.

bangraman,

That's dcfly's point, isn't it? How can we be sure about what "uncolored", "neutral" or "accurate" really means? How can we be sure what's right? The method you suggest - simply comparing as many components as possible - amounts to finding the lowest common denominator. It seems like a path to mediocrity.

A couple of weeks ago we had this thread about Music you don't particularly like for the initial evaluation and about Peter Qvortrup's "Comparison by Contrast" method. I think his ideas are very relevant in this context.

 

[markl]

It's really not that mysterious or difficult. We obviously can hear music, voices and instruments live without the "filter" of audio equipment in between our ears and the actual musical event, such as listening to the sound waves produced by a violin in the open air for example. The gear that sounds most like the live event most like a "real" violin is the least "colored".

Mark

 

[MacDEF]

What Mark said

 

[andrzejpw]

I agree with this for classical or jazz music. But what about for say, rock? What is a "live" sound? When I was at a concert, the opening band's sound sucked. All it was was TONS of bass from the drums. Is this colored sound, or just crappy mic placement/leveling?

 

[Mike Scarpitti]

Quote:

Originally posted by dcfly Something I've always wondered about is when people say that a certain pair of headphones "color the sound" more than others, how do they really know? Maybe what they think is uncolored is really colored, and what is colored is uncolored. How can a person ever really be sure without some sort of tedious and time-consuming manipulation of sound measuring equipment? Even then, a person still can't be totally sure.

Hmmmmmmmmmmm…

Experience.

 

[dcfly]

It would be that simple if there weren't such a great number of variables in the equation.

When you hear a violin live (without any type of amplification), you hear the tone of the violin and the room. Every violin sounds different, and different rooms can obviously change the sound as well. While we all have a pretty good idea of what a violin sounds like, there is no single "natural" violin sound that we have filed away in our minds.

When you listen to a recording of a violin - before the sound even reaches your headphones - it is effected by the room, the microphone(s) used, the recording equipment used, and so forth.

Quote:

Originally posted by markl It's really not that mysterious or difficult. We obviously can hear music, voices and instruments live without the "filter" of audio equipment in between our ears and the actual musical event, such as listening to the sound waves produced by a violin in the open air for example. The gear that sounds most like the live event most like a "real" violin is the least "colored". Mark

 

[scottpaul_iu]

Quote:

Originally posted by markl It's really not that mysterious or difficult. We obviously can hear music, voices and instruments live without the "filter" of audio equipment in between our ears and the actual musical event, such as listening to the sound waves produced by a violin in the open air for example. The gear that sounds most like the live event most like a "real" violin is the least "colored". Mark

Spot on.

 

[elnero]

Quote:

Originally posted by markl It's really not that mysterious or difficult. We obviously can hear music, voices and instruments live without the "filter" of audio equipment in between our ears and the actual musical event, such as listening to the sound waves produced by a violin in the open air for example. The gear that sounds most like the live event most like a "real" violin is the least "colored". Mark

That's a bit broad don't you think? I mean I agree with you for the most part but it's not quite as simple as you make it out to be. I generally know how a violin sounds, I played cello for years so I've heard lots, but is the reference I have in my head a Stradivarius or a Yamaha.

To take that one step further how do we know the tone of the instrument being played unless we have heard that exact instrument in the environment it's been recorded. I think that's probably why there is such a variance it what people consider uncolored. I personally think it comes down to experience and personal preferences as to what we consider uncolored.

An example, most people say the W100's are colored in the midrange. I personally listen and think the tonal quality of instruments is much more natural than other more "neutral" headphones I've heard. Does this make them uncolored then?

 

[usc goose]

violin outside, violin in my room, violin in a concert hall, ambient humidity, air temperature, crossbreeze, air circulation, orientation of jupiter in retrograde, did i remember to lock my car?...

it's all color.

who cares? listen to what sounds good.

 

[elnero]

Quote:

Originally posted by usc goose listen to what sounds good.

That would be my point in a more direct fashion.

Every audio component is colored so listen to what sounds good to you.

 

[grinch]

people who know what uncolored sound sounds like own a pair of grado hp-1000's.

i had no idea until i listened to these.

 

[markl]

As far as amplified music goes, that sound had to get recorded somehow so the event of the electric guitar playing occurred somewhere in space emanating from the player's amp and was recorded by a microphone. Therefore the "real" actual sound of the guitar and amp can be captured on tape. I know what amplified electric guitars sound like, I've been to hundreds of rock concerts in my time. It's not that hard IMO to tell between two headphones which one is better at reproducing the electric guitar sound. That applies no matter what kind of guitar is being played, what amp is being used, and what kind of room its being played in.

I still don't see it as a big mystery. It either sounds real or it does not.

IMO,

 

[john_jcb]

Quote:

Originally posted by andrzejpw I agree with this for classical or jazz music. But what about for say, rock? What is a "live" sound? When I was at a concert, the opening band's sound sucked. All it was was TONS of bass from the drums. Is this colored sound, or just crappy mic placement/leveling?

I think modern live rock concerts, at least the few I have recently heard, are a waste of money. I should qualify this a bit as I have only heard them in the last few years at the new United Center and open air venues in Chicago. I think the sound is muddied by poor speaker/mic placement and building acoustics. It also does not help that everyone is screaming and yelling in the audience. I know it was a lonnnng time ago but I still remember how rock sounded when the speakers were on the stage not hung around so everyone can hear even if they are a half mile away. Crowds for the most part were more subdued yelling at the beginning and end of a song. My memory of Led Zeppelin, Hendrix, The Doors and others are still pretty clear and the sound definitely do did not "suck".

That being said and as much as I enjoy rock I will not use it for serious evaluation listening. I want music where I can distinguish highs, midrange and lows and know in my minds eye exactly what it should sound like. I also prefer female vocals as part of my evaluation set of music.