[clarinetman]

So I've found myself with upgradtitis yet again, not to my surprise; this time it's for my portables. I currently have the ATH-A700. They do a very satisfying job, but as you can imagine, AT's Air series is hardly low-profile, and hence I look like an giant tool walking around with them in public.

I used the 780 for a short period, but then decided that they were essentially over-hyped and ended up hating them-- Definitely a FOTM can.

So anyway, this is basically what I'm looking for: Warm, deep, solid bass, however not overbearing to the rest of the spectrum. The mids should be creamy, forward, and robust, especially for vocals, and the treble should be sparkly, detailed, and airy. Preferably, there should be a plenty of "crunch", along with a decent soundstage... But the most important characteristics of all, however, are timbre, speed, detail! Something like a closed SA5k, or at least the next best thing, if at all possible.

My music preferences include: Rammstein, Coldplay, Marc Antoine, Alessandro Carbonare, Gogol Bordello, Leningrad, Queen, The Beatles, classical, Spanish guitar, Bossa Nova, Jazz (especially Latin and swing), alternative, oldies, soft rock, Polka, Eastern European folk/rock, and a smattering of cheesy pop (unfortunately a guilty pleasure).



Thank you for your help!

 

[Graphicism]

Heh you've described 780s perfectly... try them with a solid state amp, completely different beast.

 

[clarinetman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graphicism /img/forum/go_quote.gif Heh you've described 780s perfectly... try them with a solid state amp, completely different beast.

It's difficult for me to imagine them as a "completely different beast" with anything. It didn't matter what I used them with, the vocals always sounded nasal and the instruments fake. Metallic treble too. I dunno, what sort of solid state are we talking about here?

Oh, btw, I LOVE your wallpapers. I changed mine!

 

[Graphicism]

Well I should explain I've never heard stock 780s, only recabled and burned-in as I bought mine used - however I love them for all the points you listed above, and above all soundstage. I listen to similar music with the addition of electronica, I can say however I've never found them to sound fake, quite the opposite. In comparison with Sony SAs and Denons D2000 my last phones they are a class above. The bass is precise and detailed, unlike D2000s which lingers and is flat with vocals recessed. Sony SA while ultra detailed and good with female vocals have no real timbre to speak of, so personally I found the 780s to almost combine the two.

So the question is; does a recable change them that much? Do they changed over 500 hours of use? Are Ultrasone and s-logic just not for you? ~ Do you still own them btw?

Regarding which SS amp, I think it's more to do with opamps used... I have a cheap amp/DAC which improves tenfold with a little upgrade.

Hey pleased you like the wallpapers, I had a lot of fun creating those!

 

[clarinetman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graphicism /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well I should explain I've never heard stock 780s, only recabled and burned-in as I bought mine used - however I love them for all the points you listed above, and above all soundstage. I listen to similar music with the addition of electronica, I can say however I've never found them to sound fake, quite the opposite. In comparison with Sony SAs and Denons D2000 my last phones they are a class above. The bass is precise and detailed, unlike D2000s which lingers and is flat with vocals recessed. Sony SA while ultra detailed and good with female vocals have no real timbre to speak of, so personally I found the 780s to almost combine the two. So the question is; does a recable change them that much? Do they changed over 500 hours of use? Are Ultrasone and s-logic just not for you? ~ Do you still own them btw? Regarding which SS amp, I think it's more to do with opamps used... I have a cheap amp/DAC which improves tenfold with a little upgrade. Hey pleased you like the wallpapers, I had a lot of fun creating those!

Interesting. IIRC, when I heard the SA5k, I found them to have excellent timbre; they sounded nothing like the 780 to me.

As for recable, I dunno if I believe in it. To me, conductivity is conductivity. Even if a metal is more conductive, I fail to see how an electrical signal could make the sound reproduction seem different in any respect. While I find it an interesting concept, spending a couple hundred dollars just to find out isn't exactly what I'd call practical or feasible.

I do indeed still have them, but they don't get much use... Probably don't quite have 500 hrs. on them, but I can't be certain.

The closest thing to an SS amp I have is the DAC on my XM5, and it uses a PCM2704. I don't know how good or bad that is, but according to Practical Devices, it's "the best-performing DAC from Texas instruments" (which sounds impressive). I did some listening out of the DAC and the 780 still sounded more fake than margarine, however the bass impact improved, reminding me that the A700 has little slam at all. The mids still sounded hollow and plastic-y; definitely lacking in resolution. The only thing they really came close to the A700 with was the percussion, but the cymbals and other high drums also lacked resolution.

As you suggested, perhaps it's just that the A700 sounds better to me than the 780 because I don't care much for Ultrasone's sound sig (I hated the Ed. 8). There are leaps and bounds difference on this level, so that might have something to do with it, I dunno.

Any other suggestions?

EDIT: I'm a little scared to be saying this... But what about the DT48? FWIR, they're difficult to drive and are insanely neutral, but others say they're "chameleons" )as someone in particular said). I'm attracted to these just because of the high level of transparency and of course the extreme detail... I just don't want to not enjoy my music, since they apparently have an inherent habit of sucking the emotion out of things. Your thoughts?

 

[kool bubba ice]

Quote:

Originally Posted by clarinetman /img/forum/go_quote.gif Interesting. IIRC, when I heard the SA5k, I found them to have excellent timbre; they sounded nothing like the 780 to me. As for recable, I dunno if I believe in it. To me, conductivity is conductivity. Even if a metal is more conductive, I fail to see how an electrical signal could make the sound reproduction seem different in any respect. While I find it an interesting concept, spending a couple hundred dollars just to find out isn't exactly what I'd call practical or feasible. I do indeed still have them, but they don't get much use... Probably don't quite have 500 hrs. on them, but I can't be certain. The closest thing to an SS amp I have is the DAC on my XM5, and it uses a PCM2704. I don't know how good or bad that is, but according to Practical Devices, it's "the best-performing DAC from Texas instruments" (which sounds impressive). I did some listening out of the DAC and the 780 still sounded more fake than margarine, however the bass impact improved, reminding me that the A700 has little slam at all. The mids still sounded hollow and plastic-y; definitely lacking in resolution. The only thing they really came close to the A700 with was the percussion, but the cymbals and other high drums also lacked resolution. As you suggested, perhaps it's just that the A700 sounds better to me than the 780 because I don't care much for Ultrasone's sound sig (I hated the Ed. 8). There are leaps and bounds difference on this level, so that might have something to do with it, I dunno. Any other suggestions? EDIT: I'm a little scared to be saying this... But what about the DT48? FWIR, they're difficult to drive and are insanely neutral, but others say they're "chameleons" )as someone in particular said). I'm attracted to these just because of the high level of transparency and of course the extreme detail... I just don't want to not enjoy my music, since they apparently have an inherent habit of sucking the emotion out of things. Your thoughts?

Only the a versions, which are audio metric headphones, never made for music.. I don't find the regular DT48e/s models to 'suck' out the emotion. IMO, emotion comes from the music, & what better way to experience that emotion, then with a headphone that gets out of the way of the music. The DT48 is a un conventional headphone, designed in 1937, & for the most part the sound stays intact minus some sound variances by the different magnets used at the time (early models) & some tweaking to make them sound more like 'regular' headphones..IE more bass & treble extension.. The DT48 was made to sound like a, ummm, headphone, & was not intended to mimic a ss speaker system, like 99% of today's audiophile headphones.. meaning, the soundstage width & depth is not inflated or enlarged.. The sound stage is around 10%-20% smaller then the SA5000. But if you are looking for extreme neutrality, transparency, & excellent speed & detail, the DT48 would be a ideal choice.. They are very mid centric, & no one frequency is emphasized. To sum them up best.. They sound like a headphone with the EQ turned off.. Drosera gets credit for that one.

I'm the one who coined the phrase 'chameleon' like. But in the end only you can decide if that holds true or not.. They are not hard to drive, I just don't recommend them with portable devices.. & upscale very well when used in conjuction with better equipment. The DT48 synergize best with tube amping, which gives them a bit of warmth.

 

[earerror]

You can get the Sennheiser HD 595's, they have a punchy bass and mids balanced...i listened some metal music with them, and they were awesome.

 

[Graphicism]

Quote:

Originally Posted by clarinetman /img/forum/go_quote.gif Interesting. IIRC, when I heard the SA5k, I found them to have excellent timbre; they sounded nothing like the 780 to me. As for recable, I dunno if I believe in it. To me, conductivity is conductivity. Even if a metal is more conductive, I fail to see how an electrical signal could make the sound reproduction seem different in any respect. While I find it an interesting concept, spending a couple hundred dollars just to find out isn't exactly what I'd call practical or feasible. I do indeed still have them, but they don't get much use... Probably don't quite have 500 hrs. on them, but I can't be certain. The closest thing to an SS amp I have is the DAC on my XM5, and it uses a PCM2704. I don't know how good or bad that is, but according to Practical Devices, it's "the best-performing DAC from Texas instruments" (which sounds impressive). I did some listening out of the DAC and the 780 still sounded more fake than margarine, however the bass impact improved, reminding me that the A700 has little slam at all. The mids still sounded hollow and plastic-y; definitely lacking in resolution. The only thing they really came close to the A700 with was the percussion, but the cymbals and other high drums also lacked resolution.

Personally I attribute timbre to bass giving depth to instruments/soundstage and they were a little too light on that... if the Sonys had the bass of the HFI they would without a doubt be on my head now.

A recable will cost you $20-$30 shipped with a little DIY. While I can't comment on the difference it makes many others have and I don't believe this to be fabricated in any way. After all ALO mention a recabled 780 is almost an edition 8, yes they want to sell their cable but it must be significant enough to state this. For the amount of reviews and low cost you may as well try it!

Perhaps rather than a new headphone you could spring for a SS desktop amp; either something cheap like the Zero at $120 or the Audio GD Compass for around $250 ~ Both of these require opamp upgrades but it's cheap!

Re Symbols lacking resolution; for me one of the tell tales signs between 320kbps MP3 and FLAC is symbol extension; if they lacked in this department I likely wouldn't hear any difference at all.

 

[joomongj]

Quote:

Originally Posted by clarinetman /img/forum/go_quote.gif Interesting. IIRC, when I heard the SA5k, I found them to have excellent timbre; they sounded nothing like the 780 to me. As for recable, I dunno if I believe in it. To me, conductivity is conductivity. Even if a metal is more conductive, I fail to see how an electrical signal could make the sound reproduction seem different in any respect. While I find it an interesting concept, spending a couple hundred dollars just to find out isn't exactly what I'd call practical or feasible. I do indeed still have them, but they don't get much use... Probably don't quite have 500 hrs. on them, but I can't be certain. The closest thing to an SS amp I have is the DAC on my XM5, and it uses a PCM2704. I don't know how good or bad that is, but according to Practical Devices, it's "the best-performing DAC from Texas instruments" (which sounds impressive). I did some listening out of the DAC and the 780 still sounded more fake than margarine, however the bass impact improved, reminding me that the A700 has little slam at all. The mids still sounded hollow and plastic-y; definitely lacking in resolution. The only thing they really came close to the A700 with was the percussion, but the cymbals and other high drums also lacked resolution. As you suggested, perhaps it's just that the A700 sounds better to me than the 780 because I don't care much for Ultrasone's sound sig (I hated the Ed. 8). There are leaps and bounds difference on this level, so that might have something to do with it, I dunno. Any other suggestions? EDIT: I'm a little scared to be saying this... But what about the DT48? FWIR, they're difficult to drive and are insanely neutral, but others say they're "chameleons" )as someone in particular said). I'm attracted to these just because of the high level of transparency and of course the extreme detail... I just don't want to not enjoy my music, since they apparently have an inherent habit of sucking the emotion out of things. Your thoughts?

Cables made of different materials have different impedance(resistance + reactance*j), capacitance, inductance intertwined in some nontrivial nonlinear V-I relationships. I will stop here otherwise I may have to scrutinize my old undergrad circuitry book.

 

[clarinetman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graphicism /img/forum/go_quote.gif A recable will cost you $20-$30 shipped with a little DIY. While I can't comment on the difference it makes many others have and I don't believe this to be fabricated in any way. After all ALO mention a recabled 780 is almost an edition 8, yes they want to sell their cable but it must be significant enough to state this. For the amount of reviews and low cost you may as well try it!

$30?! From ALO? Where? I can't find anything. Perhaps you mean elsewhere. The DIY part would be simple, as long as I knew how to safely disassemble them.

 

[aamefford]

If you are really interested in modding your 780's:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f4/esw...i-780s-420797/

and

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f6/rec...i-780s-430663/

The mods and recable helped a bunch. Note that I tend to agree with the OP regarding cables, but the OEM cable in the 780's is just really crappy.

 

[Graphicism]

Quote:

Originally Posted by clarinetman /img/forum/go_quote.gif $30?! From ALO? Where? I can't find anything. Perhaps you mean elsewhere. The DIY part would be simple, as long as I knew how to safely disassemble them.

Yeah sorry I was referring to Canare star-quad or Mogami with a Neutrik plug or similar, some great info and walkthroughs in DIY Discussions. Taking apart the 780 is easy; twist the pads while pulling and they'll come off, 3 screws and you're in. The mod requires you to drill a hole in the right cup to run the wire directly into each side.

 

[clarinetman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graphicism /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yeah sorry I was referring to Canare star-quad or Mogami with a Neutrik plug or similar, some great info and walkthroughs in DIY Discussions. Taking apart the 780 is easy; twist the pads while pulling and they'll come off, 3 screws and you're in. The mod requires you to drill a hole in the right cup to run the wire directly into each side.

Which Mogami cable do you have there?

 

[AmanGeorge]

Check out the Shure SRH840 - I think it matches a lot of the criteria you laid out, except that the soundstage isn't outstanding (but not terrible either).

 

[clarinetman]

Thanks, AmanGeorge. I was actually considering the 840...

I dunno, since I like the AT Air sound, I might just go with the A900, since I've heard there quite a lot better than the A700.

Any other suggestions?