[CJG888]

Exactly. Chord DACs take a radically different approach.

 

[Kentajalli]

I’m not Rob, but I see what Kentajalli is getting at, and Rob alluded to it in his reply. There may be much more you can do to alter the sound of a DAC by changing the output and other filter designs than just changing chips. So, for example, given a clean filter and output design, swapping off the shelf DAC chips may have less impact on the sound than changing filters, output stage and power supplies when using the same chip. All of which is not to say that a good D/A stage design is not hugely important in getting the best sound, but it needs to be supported by the whole design.

In addition to your reply, I include, digital filtering, oversampling , clock implementation/jitter reduction etc.
Even though there are some recent DAC chips that are all on one chip, includes USB input and headphone amplifier.
But let us see if Mr. Watts feels inclined to explain further, after all, he knows!

 

[dakanao]

Sorry but speaking as someone who has actually designed several DAC silicon chips and countless FPGA DACs (I think its about 50 designs now) what you are saying is simply not true. Changing digits to basic analogue signal is absolutely a hugely difficult job, and will account for 90% of the overall sound quality if you value musicality and transparency. Not only that but the basic conversion process will have a massive impact on the analogue section too.

But of course if you like distortion and aberrations, then its easy to muck things up with PSUs and analogue output stages.

I’ve actually noticed the Mojo’s sound degrading (getting brighter and loosing bass impact and extension) when I’m switching tabs on my browser...

Is this because of the EMI peaking up, when switching tabs?

 

[Kentajalli]

I’ve actually noticed the Mojo’s sound degrading (getting brighter and loosing bass impact and extension) when I’m switching tabs on my browser...

Is this because of the EMI peaking up, when switching tabs?

I think it has more to do what those Tabs contain.
If say, you switch to a tab with lots of naked ladies, it might raise your blood-pressure a bit, causing inflamation in your inner ear causing momentary low frequency insensitivity, and as a result the appearence of a treble boost.
So EMI peaking? not so much -
Excited Male Interference? perhaps.

 

[dakanao]

I think it has more to do what those Tabs contain.
If say, you switch to a tab with lots of naked ladies, it might raise your blood-pressure a bit, causing inflamation in your inner ear causing momentary low frequency insensitivity, and as a result the appearence of a treble boost.
So EMI peaking? not so much -
Excited Male Interference? perhaps.

I’ll wait for Rob Watts explanation. I believe the Mojo is transparent enough, that those fluctuations of analogue noise when switchting tabs (no not naked ladies), makes the sound edgier and bass less extended and impactful. This is subtle, but to me noticable.

When I tap the buttons of the Mojo, the sound is back to normal.. It’s just something I’ve noticed and confirmed, on tracks I’ve heard dozens of times, without me reading it anywhere before hand.

After I’ve noticed it, I googled for it, and there seems to be something there giving noise when operating programs.

 

[GreenBow]

Myth Busting:
The choice of DAC chip, in contrary to common belief (Assumption!) , is not a deciding factor on the final sound quality that much.
I mean changing digits to basic analogue signal is not a very difficult job, it is the filtering and implementation of the devices, that has the most to do with final signal that comes out.
We all have seen the same chip from say Sabre, has been used in £100 DACs and £1000 DACs, but the two can sound totally different.
Chord and dCS have gone one way, others have gone another, and both have achieved good results at the end.
I have a Leema Acoustics Elements DAC/Preamp which I believe is using an aging DAC chip of 192kHz capability. It is 8 years old, and I still swear by it. Indeed once I checked it against my Mojo in my home system, and I preferred the Leema! (My ears I know).
For portable use, I have not come across better than Mojo, somehow it works with earphones - it could be the amp section, I am not sure - because the said Leema does not sound as good ad Mojo from headphone out! go figure . . .
To get fixated over the choice of DAC chips is not wise.

Thank you for replying, ofcource I love your work and my Mojo and respect you greatly.
So tell me (not counting FPGA designs) why is it that the same Off-the-shelf DAC chips, used in different devices sound so vastly different?
different manufacturers have used the very same chips in devices from £100 to £2000 with vastly different results.
I mean, is the choice of DAC chip, has most to do with final sound? - because I believe there is such assumption! such and such new DAC from this manufacturer has the latest Sabre (blah blah) DAC chip, so it must sound better than something else.

You're unlikely to find the same chip in a £100 and £1000 system. From what I have seen, most manufacturers use increasing quality chips as the products go up the line. For example, more expensive kit often uses dual DACs.


The second question you are asking is easliy found about, so why not look it up. ..... Q. Why do same chips sound so different? A. It's down to:

• power supply cleanliness/noise.
• the clock chip quality
• how the sound from the DAC is massaged. If a chip is bright, it will get treble taming in either EQ or somewhere else.
• quality of components used in the rest of the player, other than the DAC chip
• short clean signal paths and other methods - noise cancellation
• RFI - analogue circuits need shielding from digital noisy circuits
• There will be other elements that I have forgotten. I keep waiting and remembering stuff to add, but am quitting here. Up to you now.

 

[Kentajalli]

You're unlikely to find the same chip in a £100 and £1000 system. From what I have seen, most manufacturers use increasing quality chips as the products go up the line. For example, more expensive kit often uses dual DACs.


The second question you are asking is easliy found about, so why not look it up. ..... Q. Why do same chips sound so different? A. It's down to:

• power supply cleanliness/noise.
• the clock chip quality
• how the sound from the DAC is massaged. If a chip is bright, it will get treble taming in either EQ or somewhere else.
• quality of components used in the rest of the player, other than the DAC chip
• short clean signal paths and other methods - noise cancellation
• RFI - analogue circuits need shielding from digital noisy circuits
• There will be other elements that I have forgotten. I keep waiting and remembering stuff to add, but am quitting here. Up to you now.

Yes, thank you - I Googled it.
Breeze Audio Dac selling for less than $100 using Sabre ES9018.
Exasound Audio Dac selling for $2500 using same Sabre ES9018.
As to second part of your reply, my points exactly, but let us see if Mr. Watts can shine more light on this.

 

[118900]

Deleted

 

[118900]

deleted again. I need to learn my lesson and just ignore certain people instead of getting involved.....

 

[Kentajalli]

deleted again. I need to learn my lesson and just ignore certain people instead of getting involved.....

I love you too.
say what you feel, for myself, I never hold it against you or feel offended.

 

[kumar402]

I’ve actually noticed the Mojo’s sound degrading (getting brighter and loosing bass impact and extension) when I’m switching tabs on my browser...

Is this because of the EMI peaking up, when switching tabs?

That's why I like Audirvana player as it has a switch to put the player on exclusive mode and hence anything else running on laptop has no bearing on sound.

 

[GreenBow]

I’ve actually noticed the Mojo’s sound degrading (getting brighter and loosing bass impact and extension) when I’m switching tabs on my browser...

Is this because of the EMI peaking up, when switching tabs?

If you are using USB, then try a Jitterbug as that will block RFI, or use 'optical'.

Never heard anyone else report that though.

 

[GreenBow]

Yes, thank you - I Googled it.
Breeze Audio Dac selling for less than $100 using Sabre ES9018.
Exasound Audio Dac selling for $2500 using same Sabre ES9018.
As to second part of your reply, my points exactly, but let us see if Mr. Watts can shine more light on this.

I have seen it myself with a chip in a cheap and expensive device, but not often. However I barely ever look over other DACs, because they never meet up to Chord DACs in reviews or opinion. In general I have zero idea what DAC chip is in which brand devices.

I think the time I saw it recently was in the REMI ADI-2-DAC. I looked up what it was using for DA conversion because it was reviewing well. I was curious to see if used proprietory coding and processor like Rob's work. It was an stock DAC chip though, but I was curious because of the hype around the ADI-2. During my search of that that DAC chip I spotted it in other devices.

On the other hand, I can completely understand why people buy other brand DACs too.


When I said why not google your question, I mean what I sadi in that sentence. Not different priced DACs using the same chips. .. I thought that was obvious.

Anyway whatever, this is the Mojo thread, so I feel I am done.

 

[118900]

I have seen it myself with a chip in a cheap and expensive device, but not often. However I barely ever look over other DACs, because they never meet up to Chord DACs in reviews or opinion. In general I have zero idea what DAC chip is in which brand devices.

I think the time I saw it recently was in the REMI ADI-2-DAC. I looked up what it was using for DA conversion because it was reviewing well. I was curious to see if used proprietory coding and processor like Rob's work. It was an stock DAC chip though, but I was curious because of the hype around the ADI-2. During my search of that that DAC chip I spotted it in other devices.

On the other hand, I can completely understand why people buy other brand DACs too.


When I said why not google your question, I mean what I sadi in that sentence. Not different priced DACs using the same chips. .. I thought that was obvious.

Anyway whatever, this is the Mojo thread, so I feel I am done.

agreed. I’m still unsure whether some people are just trolling the board or whether they are actually limited to the point that they don’t understand half of what they “google” yet still insist on “educating” the rest of us, even when the facts prove them wrong, as amply demonstrated by Rob’s intervention earlier, but not only.

Fortunately a little common sense and the ignore button are our friends.

 

[dakanao]

If you are using USB, then try a Jitterbug as that will block RFI, or use 'optical'.

Never heard anyone else report that though.

No this is on the iPad. I did have the same issue on my laptop as well.

I notice it rather easily with my HD650 and DT150, reason being that if that brightness kicks in, the bass gets under my preference of being satisfying.