[Ancipital]

  I must say I don't fully understand that logic.  They are digital signals, how can interference like you're describing even happen?  It's 1s and 0s in a certain order, nothing more nothing less.  I understand when the signal is analog that noise and dirty cables will ruin the signal, but I don't get the science behind how that even makes sense on a digital signal.
 
Any article or something that explains it?

 
Many, google is your friend.
 
"Phase noise" is not noise in the data payload, but when it arrives- in the timing. When a bit of waveform occurs in the time domain affects how it's rendered as a frequency. This is not like storing  samples in a file, where you might know that 16 bits is an amplitude snapshot in time, followed by another 16 bit snapshot of the other channel, followed by another in the first channel to occur immediately afterwards. When you're streaming clocked digital audio down a wire, when the data arrives is as vital a part of the audio as what is sent.
 
Essentially, if your timing is not stable, you will "smear" frequencies by affecting when sound appears in time- stuff appearing in slighty wrong places causes what are called sideband signals. Consider a waveform, of the sort you're used to in a sample editor. Your "ones and zeros" are the Y axis of the graph, but when they appear is along the X axis. The higher the frequency, the shorter the cycle time along the X axis, and thus the larger percentage the "smearing" represents of the fundamental. Jitter disproportionately affects higher frequencies, making them less distinct, affecting the intelligibility of the sound.
 
Cheap/bad clocks have more phase noise- they're further from the ideal regularity. The S/PDIF clocks from computer motherboards are often derived from other clocks, using dividers/multipliers, and have regular errors that are predictable in a modular manner- that sounds particularly bad. However, a cheap and dirty USB receiver will have its own clocking issues too, which will adversely affect the sound.
 
Executive summary, timing jitter doesn't sound like g-g-g-glitching unless things are really broken. It sounds like muddy audio and it sucks. Once you've heard the difference, it's quite a shock. Even the Mojo can sound loads better with a clean feed.

 

[canali]

Guys ...Going to swap in my mojo with my microrendu...Just seeking a few good USB suggestions please....Curious? AQ cinnamon ? Others?

 

[WayTooCrazy]

Guys ...Going to swap in my mojo with my microrendu...Just seeking a few good USB suggestions please....Curious? AQ cinnamon ? Others?

Definitely the Curious...it is more expensive, so it has to be the best. 

 

[Ancipital]

Guys ...Going to swap in my mojo with my microrendu...Just seeking a few good USB suggestions please....Curious? AQ cinnamon ? Others?

 
Yes, a bog standard Belkin Gold cable. Many "audiophile" cables don't even meet the relevant USB spec properly. Don't waste your money on nonsense. The more you understand about how USB works, the more ludicrous such cables will seem, even the ones which actually do meet the minimum spec.

 

[x RELIC x]

Good post. Thanks, Relic. Do you have any links for further understanding (not too technical)

It's neat stuff to learn and I want to learn more about mojo and processing power vs other DACS. Reading specs doesn't always help me.

I'm not aware of one article in particular that would summarize what I posted, but rather a multitude of information that describes how devices work. For example, look up how SSD stores data and you'll see that it's either a trapped electron or not (not an actual 0 or 1 but a difference in a physical state), or how data is transmitted down a wire as Voltage/Current.

The underlying principle is that both are physical in nature, but one is sampled for ease of manipulation (digital) one is not (analogue), and noise can indeed propagate in the digital realm to the analogue components. Ever hear bibs and beeps when using a USB audio output on the same BUS as a magnetic hard drive? That's noise propagating through the components. There's also substrate noise from digital switching that propagates through the wire.

There's also the jitter timing effects, as Ancipital explained well, that also can affect what we hear which some describe as 'noise', but it's timing 'noise'.

If you want to learn more about the Mojo and it's implementations then you should read the third post of this thread. Mython has done an epic job of gathering the information from Rob Watts about his designs there.

 

[Rdwng1975]

How does everyone feel about the quality of otg from IOS devices when it works in comparison to typical USB out of a PC? How about that same otg vs coaxial?

 

[DjBobby]

Contacted Meenova to ask about the dropouts connecting Mojo to iPhone 7 and both of my iPads, got a very quick response:
 
"Unfortunately iOS 10.3 blocks USB audio output for all non-MFi cables/adapters. You can read more here:
http://www.borofone.com/cautious-upgrade-apple-ios-10-3-blocked-otg-audio-adapter/
We are still looking for work-around. Thanks, Support @Meenova"
 

 

[zerolight]

Contacted Meenova to ask about the dropouts connecting Mojo to iPhone 7 and both of my iPads, got a very quick response:

[COLOR=222222]"Unfortunately iOS 10.3 blocks USB audio output for all non-MFi cables/adapters. You can read more here:[/COLOR]
[COLOR=222222][COLOR=1155CC]http://www.borofone.com/cautious-upgrade-apple-ios-10-3-blocked-otg-audio-adapter/[/COLOR][/COLOR]
[COLOR=222222]We are still looking for work-around. Thanks, Support @Meenova"[/COLOR]
[COLOR=222222] [/COLOR]

Shouldn't really come as a surprise since the last few releases have been blocking non mfi cables presumably using counterfeit encryption chips. I'm thinking that the result of this is the inadvertent blocking of devices legitimately connecting through CCK. Hopefully they will fix that, but there's always the chance that this niche market is simply collateral damage.

 

[329161]

Looking for opinions - Mojo or ifi Micro idsd black label?
Thanks in advance.

 

[Galm]

   
Many, google is your friend.
 
"Phase noise" is not noise in the data payload, but when it arrives- in the timing. When a bit of waveform occurs in the time domain affects how it's rendered as a frequency. This is not like storing  samples in a file, where you might know that 16 bits is an amplitude snapshot in time, followed by another 16 bit snapshot of the other channel, followed by another in the first channel to occur immediately afterwards. When you're streaming clocked digital audio down a wire, when the data arrives is as vital a part of the audio as what is sent.
 
Essentially, if your timing is not stable, you will "smear" frequencies by affecting when sound appears in time- stuff appearing in slighty wrong places causes what are called sideband signals. Consider a waveform, of the sort you're used to in a sample editor. Your "ones and zeros" are the Y axis of the graph, but when they appear is along the X axis. The higher the frequency, the shorter the cycle time along the X axis, and thus the larger percentage the "smearing" represents of the fundamental. Jitter disproportionately affects higher frequencies, making them less distinct, affecting the intelligibility of the sound.
 
Cheap/bad clocks have more phase noise- they're further from the ideal regularity. The S/PDIF clocks from computer motherboards are often derived from other clocks, using dividers/multipliers, and have regular errors that are predictable in a modular manner- that sounds particularly bad. However, a cheap and dirty USB receiver will have its own clocking issues too, which will adversely affect the sound.
 
Executive summary, timing jitter doesn't sound like g-g-g-glitching unless things are really broken. It sounds like muddy audio and it sucks. Once you've heard the difference, it's quite a shock. Even the Mojo can sound loads better with a clean feed.

Thanks for that, I was somewhat struggling to google it based on your description initially that let me google it more precisely.  
 
I'm quite surprised that the protocol for audio is clock dependant in such a manner, seems more like MIDI than I was expecting.  I'm familiar with a lot of USB data transfer from work, but have never looked at audio.  I suppose it would help with bandwidth.  I also am surprised that the clock can be bad.  I would expect my desktop s/pdif clock to use the cpu clock which should be essentially perfect.  
 
 

Looking for opinions - Mojo or ifi Micro idsd black label?
Thanks in advance.

ProTip: When asking for advice, don't post in the discussion of one of the products.  Gonna get some biased answers lol.  
 
I mean I'm sure some people here will try and give you some honest opinions, but I would probably post this as a request in the buying advice forum.  
 
 As someone who only owns Mojo, I've heard the iDSD is potentially better, but Mojo is way smaller.  If you want a pocket solution Mojo is more portable.  But I won't go into sound quality, some one who has used both would know more.

 

[ekrauss]

I know a solution. Don't buy apple products.

That is certainly *A* solution, but it's not an acceptable solution to many people. I can't stand Android, for example. I like Windows Phone but there just aren't enough apps for it. Hence, I stick with iOS--plus, it is the mobile platform supported by my work.

 

[betula]

Looking for opinions - Mojo or ifi Micro idsd black label?
Thanks in advance.

It depends on many things, mostly on personal preference.
Buy Mojo if you need portability (iDSD BL is just too big for portable use). Buy the BL if you need versatility (tons of inputs and outputs). Budget might be important too, Mojo is £399, iDSD BL is £549 (at least here in the UK).
Both are very nice sounding DACs.
BL: smooth, warm, relaxing sound with more bass presence compared to Mojo. Entertaining listening experience. Wider soundstage, but depth is lacking compared to Mojo giving you a more 2D "screen" you are looking at in your head.
Mojo: slightly more detailed, more intimate soundstage. Depth of the soundstage is immediately obvious, you can place the instruments not just to the right or left, but forward and backwards as well. Feels even more natural and lifelike compared to the BL, although BL is also quite good in this regard. Mojo wins on vocals hands down.
I think, Mojo sounds more "audiophile", more experienced pair of ears will probably appreciate Mojo's clarity, 3D space and refinement. BL's sound is easier to "digest". Silky smooth fun with bass. With BL it feels like you are listening to your favorite band from the first 3-4 row of seats in a venue. With Mojo it almost feels like you were on the stage with the musicians, and you could almost touch them. BL is smooth with more of a constant bass presence, Mojo is clear, clean, and (3D)spacious, even better balanced compared to the BL. BL is also fairly detailed, but Mojo sounds slightly more detailed. Mojo sounds more lifelike and true to life, but BL's bass is highly addictive. Even though you know this bass is not completely lifelike, you just get hooked. For classical, instrumental, vocal I would definitely recommend Mojo based on pure sound quality. With mostly electronic music you might find the BL more fun. Not that Mojo is not great with electronic music, it is. But bass is only there, when the recording really calls for it. That said 60-70% I listen to electronic music with my Mojo. (Not DnB and dubstep though, but ambient and downtempo.)
I'd say if functionality is secondary, go for the better deal you find. You won't be disappointed with any of these DACs.
I personally prefer Mojo's qualities over the BL, but that is me. (Sometimes I wish I could take the BL's bass knob and implement it on Mojo to occasionally indulge in some dirty bass pleasure with certain electronic tracks, but would never trade off the Mojo's clear, lifelike space.)
These are the best two portable/transportable DACs currently on the market under £6-800. Both are in the next league compared to HA2SE for example.
 

 

[Nosce Te Ipsum]

Hello, under the product registration on Chord's website, the "Country of Purchase:" refers to where I bought the product from (online from Custom-Cable so UK) or my country at the moment of the purchase (Italy)? Sorry for the (maybe) stupid question but this confuses me a bit. Thanks

 

[329161]

Would you guys put the audio quality of the Mojo on the same level as desktop rigs such as Oppo ha1?

 

[x RELIC x]

Would you guys put the audio quality of the Mojo on the same level as desktop rigs such as Oppo ha1?

Yes. I had the HA-1 and I found the Mojo to be better to my ears. The depth, timbre, transient timing, and overall musicality was much better from the Mojo. The HA-1 sounded slightly grainy, etched, and sterile in comparison. Besides more output power I didn't find the HA-1 to be as capable. Don't get me wrong, the HA-1 was nice when I had it but the Mojo actually displaced it for me.