Jan 27, 2019 at 11:58 AM Post #2,956 of 7,168
Thanks @Triode User @Hummer25 @Windseeker , some very useful and interesting observations. As we have all agreed, the only real way to know if it adds enough for me personally is via a demo. That’s what I shall do.

@Christer I don’t think @Rob Watts minds being quoted, so long as the quote is accurate and in context. I’m sure we’re all the same in that respect.
 
Jan 27, 2019 at 1:04 PM Post #2,957 of 7,168
It's been a while, so here is an update:

The Qutest is the lynchpin of my system. Never before has my imagination left me blanked as to how something could even conceivably sound better. Of course it could sound better, but thats not the point. The point is, I have never heard better, can't imagine better, and am quiet happy, for now. I give equal parts credit to a Mr. Vandersteen for the accuracy, realism and spatial coherency of well placed 3a's. I have little experience as an audiophile in other brands, but I believe that Rob Watts philosophy of Taps and Timing are a magical fit with Mr. Vandersteen's philosophy of Phase and Time coherency.

Experimenting with the Qutest is very revealing, and as I get closer to the perfect sound, it becomes possible to revisit past comparisons and see an even more obvious difference when substituting pieces of the puzzle.

1. Power:

Forgive me for starting out with a well worn subject, but its crucial in the order of operations for my system and for this post to first talk about the power supplying everything.
My best results have been with a single cord out of the wall, into a Furman Elite 15i Powerline conditioner. Any additional connections to the Mains of the house reduce sound quality. Period. These additional connections include plugging the Amplifier directly into the wall, plugging Qutest directly into the wall, or plugging the laptop into the wall.

For best sound, the Qutest gets plugged into the Furman, and the laptop runs on battery. (Also tried Qutest into battery pack, not as good, but I didn't have the proper 5v pack as recommended by Rob, so I will simply say the Furman is better than direct into the wall) The Amp also gets plugged into the Furman.
-Things I did not try: Plugging the Synology into the wall, plugging the router into the wall. Will try this later, but I don't believe this is the proper path to Nirvana. Once I find Nirvana, I will go back and see if I can find it again out of the NAS and Router. Of course I could break these two components apart, but the point is this combo would allow wireless operation. Take out the Wireless Router and I still have to plug my laptop in. I can still have the NAS and Router running, and the laptop can retrieve music from it, and the NAS and wireless router can be on an entire different outlet in the house. So the point is moot, either its wireless or its not, and going wireless only complicates the chain, and I hear no improvement, and anecdotally believe it is worse.

2. Transport:
I have tried running Roon on a New Synology 918+ with a solid state drive, as well as running Roon on my laptop from an NVME m.2 2280 SSD.
Observations:
-On the laptop, everything works well, and I get the best experience so far. +1 for Qutest's Galvanic Isolation (Dell XPS 15, 8th gen i7, NVME SSD, USB 3.1 Gen 1)
-For now, the Synology doesn't perform at the level of my laptop. Why not? I'm not sure yet, I'm still tweaking the room and cables, then I will revisit the issue. As mentioned above, I also don't care to get the NAS performing at the level of the laptop unless it also pairs with the wireless router to go wireless. So first things first, make the best system sound wise, then see if I can get the same sound but with the additional two components making the system wireless.

3. Cables:
I used to be a firm believer that all the cable talk was for idiots. The truth was that I had never had a revealing system until the Qutest got dropped in the equation. and I had never spent more than $75usd on a cable, much less A/B'ed multiple cables. The local audio store was nice enough (or as you will see, evil enough) to send me home with some cables to try. The purpose of this is not to vouch for any cables, but to say that the Qutest is revealing enough that cables absolutely do make a difference. I tried the Audioquest Red (Cinnamon?) which sounded ok. Then the Chord Vee3 Cobra. After that I went back to the store and said the Cobra sounded better, so lets go a step up and see if I still get better sound. So the guy sent me home with what I thought were the next two levels, Chord Chameleon Vee3, and Chord Anthem Reference. I spent a whole day with the Chameleons, and thought they were awesome! I thought for sure they would be the ones, what could I be missing, its just a cable...... Then I plugged in the Anthem References. I can't describe the change well, but if I tried, I would say this: the music radiated from smaller points in space (pinpoint accuracy), and as such waves of sound did not build upon themselves and overpower the listener. Instead the music seemed to have a larger soundstage with all the available sounds able to exist in the same physical space without becoming two waves of water meeting to drown he listener. The next day I went back to the audio store and the guy told me to "forget about the white cable", its actually a few steps up in the line and like $800USD. I told him to screw off, its staying right where it is, I'll come up with the cash.

Anyway, enough cable talk, It seems dumb. I will however say I believe this improvement to be from the silver used in the Chord Odyssey 4 Biwire cable and Anthem Reference RCAs. Until I hear with my ears otherwise, that's the best explanation that fits my worldview (silver having 105% the conductivity of copper)

4. Without a good listening room and proper speaker placement (even down to the 16th of an inch), little of the above would be relevant.

5. My opinion so far on two talked about Rob Watts statements:

In regards to the stock power supply: Yes, the stock power supply is sufficient as Rob has stated. Yes, you can potentially do better as users have attested to, but only if all the other pieces work as well (example, plug the laptop into the wall and the benefits of the DAC using linear power supply disappear OR plug the amp into the wall and the benefits of the LPS disappear). It seems from my limited experience that power supply and conditioning are an all or nothing proposition that also require a streamlined approach to minimize the chain of equipment and electrical noise. The benefits seen will vary widely. I now understand why LPS is such a contentious and talked about issue. Both sides are correct. It takes a bad power source, or a well thought out electrical chain before a LPS will make a difference.

In regards to the Qutest having a "Galvonically Isolated" USB connection and the source not mattering, I can't say for sure, but I tend to agree. I don't plan on buying a network streamer anytime soon. I believe that the Galvonic Isolation works, and that I probably get most of the benefit of an expensive network streamer by running a 14nm lithography processor and m.2 2280 SSD through a pretty new USB 3.1 port ON BATTERY POWER. One thing I might try in the future is a USB-C data cable for Qutest. This could use the USB 3.1 gen 2 port on my laptop. (Current is full sized USB 3.1 gen 1). This could be worse though with more internal things connected to the multi-use USB C port. Or, most likely, it would be the same since the Galvanic Isolation on the Qutest theoretically renders this issue moot.


Thanks for listening, Flame Away!
 
Jan 27, 2019 at 1:54 PM Post #2,958 of 7,168
It's been a while, so here is an update:

The Qutest is the lynchpin of my system. Never before has my imagination left me blanked as to how something could even conceivably sound better. Of course it could sound better, but thats not the point. The point is, I have never heard better, can't imagine better, and am quiet happy, for now. I give equal parts credit to a Mr. Vandersteen for the accuracy, realism and spatial coherency of well placed 3a's. I have little experience as an audiophile in other brands, but I believe that Rob Watts philosophy of Taps and Timing are a magical fit with Mr. Vandersteen's philosophy of Phase and Time coherency.

Experimenting with the Qutest is very revealing, and as I get closer to the perfect sound, it becomes possible to revisit past comparisons and see an even more obvious difference when substituting pieces of the puzzle.

1. Power:

Forgive me for starting out with a well worn subject, but its crucial in the order of operations for my system and for this post to first talk about the power supplying everything.
My best results have been with a single cord out of the wall, into a Furman Elite 15i Powerline conditioner. Any additional connections to the Mains of the house reduce sound quality. Period. These additional connections include plugging the Amplifier directly into the wall, plugging Qutest directly into the wall, or plugging the laptop into the wall.

For best sound, the Qutest gets plugged into the Furman, and the laptop runs on battery. (Also tried Qutest into battery pack, not as good, but I didn't have the proper 5v pack as recommended by Rob, so I will simply say the Furman is better than direct into the wall) The Amp also gets plugged into the Furman.
-Things I did not try: Plugging the Synology into the wall, plugging the router into the wall. Will try this later, but I don't believe this is the proper path to Nirvana. Once I find Nirvana, I will go back and see if I can find it again out of the NAS and Router. Of course I could break these two components apart, but the point is this combo would allow wireless operation. Take out the Wireless Router and I still have to plug my laptop in. I can still have the NAS and Router running, and the laptop can retrieve music from it, and the NAS and wireless router can be on an entire different outlet in the house. So the point is moot, either its wireless or its not, and going wireless only complicates the chain, and I hear no improvement, and anecdotally believe it is worse.

2. Transport:
I have tried running Roon on a New Synology 918+ with a solid state drive, as well as running Roon on my laptop from an NVME m.2 2280 SSD.
Observations:
-On the laptop, everything works well, and I get the best experience so far. +1 for Qutest's Galvanic Isolation (Dell XPS 15, 8th gen i7, NVME SSD, USB 3.1 Gen 1)
-For now, the Synology doesn't perform at the level of my laptop. Why not? I'm not sure yet, I'm still tweaking the room and cables, then I will revisit the issue. As mentioned above, I also don't care to get the NAS performing at the level of the laptop unless it also pairs with the wireless router to go wireless. So first things first, make the best system sound wise, then see if I can get the same sound but with the additional two components making the system wireless.

3. Cables:
I used to be a firm believer that all the cable talk was for idiots. The truth was that I had never had a revealing system until the Qutest got dropped in the equation. and I had never spent more than $75usd on a cable, much less A/B'ed multiple cables. The local audio store was nice enough (or as you will see, evil enough) to send me home with some cables to try. The purpose of this is not to vouch for any cables, but to say that the Qutest is revealing enough that cables absolutely do make a difference. I tried the Audioquest Red (Cinnamon?) which sounded ok. Then the Chord Vee3 Cobra. After that I went back to the store and said the Cobra sounded better, so lets go a step up and see if I still get better sound. So the guy sent me home with what I thought were the next two levels, Chord Chameleon Vee3, and Chord Anthem Reference. I spent a whole day with the Chameleons, and thought they were awesome! I thought for sure they would be the ones, what could I be missing, its just a cable...... Then I plugged in the Anthem References. I can't describe the change well, but if I tried, I would say this: the music radiated from smaller points in space (pinpoint accuracy), and as such waves of sound did not build upon themselves and overpower the listener. Instead the music seemed to have a larger soundstage with all the available sounds able to exist in the same physical space without becoming two waves of water meeting to drown he listener. The next day I went back to the audio store and the guy told me to "forget about the white cable", its actually a few steps up in the line and like $800USD. I told him to screw off, its staying right where it is, I'll come up with the cash.

Anyway, enough cable talk, It seems dumb. I will however say I believe this improvement to be from the silver used in the Chord Odyssey 4 Biwire cable and Anthem Reference RCAs. Until I hear with my ears otherwise, that's the best explanation that fits my worldview (silver having 105% the conductivity of copper)

4. Without a good listening room and proper speaker placement (even down to the 16th of an inch), little of the above would be relevant.

5. My opinion so far on two talked about Rob Watts statements:

In regards to the stock power supply: Yes, the stock power supply is sufficient as Rob has stated. Yes, you can potentially do better as users have attested to, but only if all the other pieces work as well (example, plug the laptop into the wall and the benefits of the DAC using linear power supply disappear OR plug the amp into the wall and the benefits of the LPS disappear). It seems from my limited experience that power supply and conditioning are an all or nothing proposition that also require a streamlined approach to minimize the chain of equipment and electrical noise. The benefits seen will vary widely. I now understand why LPS is such a contentious and talked about issue. Both sides are correct. It takes a bad power source, or a well thought out electrical chain before a LPS will make a difference.

In regards to the Qutest having a "Galvonically Isolated" USB connection and the source not mattering, I can't say for sure, but I tend to agree. I don't plan on buying a network streamer anytime soon. I believe that the Galvonic Isolation works, and that I probably get most of the benefit of an expensive network streamer by running a 14nm lithography processor and m.2 2280 SSD through a pretty new USB 3.1 port ON BATTERY POWER. One thing I might try in the future is a USB-C data cable for Qutest. This could use the USB 3.1 gen 2 port on my laptop. (Current is full sized USB 3.1 gen 1). This could be worse though with more internal things connected to the multi-use USB C port. Or, most likely, it would be the same since the Galvanic Isolation on the Qutest theoretically renders this issue moot.


Thanks for listening, Flame Away!

Thanks for sharing! I’d really like to try a good power conditioner at some point. From my experience with the 2qute (which also has the galvanic isolation) you likely would get further big improvements by optimizing source (and source power supply).
 
Jan 27, 2019 at 2:50 PM Post #2,959 of 7,168
It's been a while, so here is an update:

The Qutest is the lynchpin of my system. Never before has my imagination left me blanked as to how something could even conceivably sound better. Of course it could sound better, but thats not the point. The point is, I have never heard better, can't imagine better, and am quiet happy, for now. I give equal parts credit to a Mr. Vandersteen for the accuracy, realism and spatial coherency of well placed 3a's. I have little experience as an audiophile in other brands, but I believe that Rob Watts philosophy of Taps and Timing are a magical fit with Mr. Vandersteen's philosophy of Phase and Time coherency.

Experimenting with the Qutest is very revealing, and as I get closer to the perfect sound, it becomes possible to revisit past comparisons and see an even more obvious difference when substituting pieces of the puzzle.

1. Power:

Forgive me for starting out with a well worn subject, but its crucial in the order of operations for my system and for this post to first talk about the power supplying everything.
My best results have been with a single cord out of the wall, into a Furman Elite 15i Powerline conditioner. Any additional connections to the Mains of the house reduce sound quality. Period. These additional connections include plugging the Amplifier directly into the wall, plugging Qutest directly into the wall, or plugging the laptop into the wall.

For best sound, the Qutest gets plugged into the Furman, and the laptop runs on battery. (Also tried Qutest into battery pack, not as good, but I didn't have the proper 5v pack as recommended by Rob, so I will simply say the Furman is better than direct into the wall) The Amp also gets plugged into the Furman.
-Things I did not try: Plugging the Synology into the wall, plugging the router into the wall. Will try this later, but I don't believe this is the proper path to Nirvana. Once I find Nirvana, I will go back and see if I can find it again out of the NAS and Router. Of course I could break these two components apart, but the point is this combo would allow wireless operation. Take out the Wireless Router and I still have to plug my laptop in. I can still have the NAS and Router running, and the laptop can retrieve music from it, and the NAS and wireless router can be on an entire different outlet in the house. So the point is moot, either its wireless or its not, and going wireless only complicates the chain, and I hear no improvement, and anecdotally believe it is worse.

2. Transport:
I have tried running Roon on a New Synology 918+ with a solid state drive, as well as running Roon on my laptop from an NVME m.2 2280 SSD.
Observations:
-On the laptop, everything works well, and I get the best experience so far. +1 for Qutest's Galvanic Isolation (Dell XPS 15, 8th gen i7, NVME SSD, USB 3.1 Gen 1)
-For now, the Synology doesn't perform at the level of my laptop. Why not? I'm not sure yet, I'm still tweaking the room and cables, then I will revisit the issue. As mentioned above, I also don't care to get the NAS performing at the level of the laptop unless it also pairs with the wireless router to go wireless. So first things first, make the best system sound wise, then see if I can get the same sound but with the additional two components making the system wireless.

3. Cables:
I used to be a firm believer that all the cable talk was for idiots. The truth was that I had never had a revealing system until the Qutest got dropped in the equation. and I had never spent more than $75usd on a cable, much less A/B'ed multiple cables. The local audio store was nice enough (or as you will see, evil enough) to send me home with some cables to try. The purpose of this is not to vouch for any cables, but to say that the Qutest is revealing enough that cables absolutely do make a difference. I tried the Audioquest Red (Cinnamon?) which sounded ok. Then the Chord Vee3 Cobra. After that I went back to the store and said the Cobra sounded better, so lets go a step up and see if I still get better sound. So the guy sent me home with what I thought were the next two levels, Chord Chameleon Vee3, and Chord Anthem Reference. I spent a whole day with the Chameleons, and thought they were awesome! I thought for sure they would be the ones, what could I be missing, its just a cable...... Then I plugged in the Anthem References. I can't describe the change well, but if I tried, I would say this: the music radiated from smaller points in space (pinpoint accuracy), and as such waves of sound did not build upon themselves and overpower the listener. Instead the music seemed to have a larger soundstage with all the available sounds able to exist in the same physical space without becoming two waves of water meeting to drown he listener. The next day I went back to the audio store and the guy told me to "forget about the white cable", its actually a few steps up in the line and like $800USD. I told him to screw off, its staying right where it is, I'll come up with the cash.

Anyway, enough cable talk, It seems dumb. I will however say I believe this improvement to be from the silver used in the Chord Odyssey 4 Biwire cable and Anthem Reference RCAs. Until I hear with my ears otherwise, that's the best explanation that fits my worldview (silver having 105% the conductivity of copper)

4. Without a good listening room and proper speaker placement (even down to the 16th of an inch), little of the above would be relevant.

5. My opinion so far on two talked about Rob Watts statements:

In regards to the stock power supply: Yes, the stock power supply is sufficient as Rob has stated. Yes, you can potentially do better as users have attested to, but only if all the other pieces work as well (example, plug the laptop into the wall and the benefits of the DAC using linear power supply disappear OR plug the amp into the wall and the benefits of the LPS disappear). It seems from my limited experience that power supply and conditioning are an all or nothing proposition that also require a streamlined approach to minimize the chain of equipment and electrical noise. The benefits seen will vary widely. I now understand why LPS is such a contentious and talked about issue. Both sides are correct. It takes a bad power source, or a well thought out electrical chain before a LPS will make a difference.

In regards to the Qutest having a "Galvonically Isolated" USB connection and the source not mattering, I can't say for sure, but I tend to agree. I don't plan on buying a network streamer anytime soon. I believe that the Galvonic Isolation works, and that I probably get most of the benefit of an expensive network streamer by running a 14nm lithography processor and m.2 2280 SSD through a pretty new USB 3.1 port ON BATTERY POWER. One thing I might try in the future is a USB-C data cable for Qutest. This could use the USB 3.1 gen 2 port on my laptop. (Current is full sized USB 3.1 gen 1). This could be worse though with more internal things connected to the multi-use USB C port. Or, most likely, it would be the same since the Galvanic Isolation on the Qutest theoretically renders this issue moot.


Thanks for listening, Flame Away!
Thanks for the post. Its quite amazing when you reach that level of transparency and every component in your chain makes a difference. I also enjoy a Furman Elite 15 powerfactor for my Amp coupled with some high quality solid (not plated) silver interconnects. With my Qutest, I have tried almost every power source imaginable. Linear power supplies (big downgrade in sound, adds too much noise), Ultra Cap LPS 1.2, ifi ipower, various power packs, etc. and I've settle with my top two. 1. Pocket Juice 20,000mah 2. Chord's stock psu. The Pocket Juice has the best clarity and least amount of noise and its a significant upgrade to stock, well worth the money.

If you want to dive into even deeper territory try replacing your Power receptacle with upgraded "audiophile quality" one. I have the AudioQuest NRG Edison, it was by far the biggest bump in sound quality compared to the rest of my components in power chain ex. Cables, Furman Elite 15PF
 
Jan 28, 2019 at 2:22 AM Post #2,960 of 7,168
Hello Hummer.
I have been using my Qutest with an MScaler for roughly two months on an almost daily basis. And I can definitely say that it makes a BIG difference compared to Qutest on its own.
For me there is absolutely NO going back to Qutest on its own.
Qutest on its own is as I have said before an improvement over what came before it from Chord in the same or similar price range but it is NOT close to DAVE on its own imo.
It is far from perfect on its own.
I know Rob is not always happy when I quote him, but I think even he said that without Mscaling H2 or whichever dac he was using without Mscaling temporarily, sounding" pretty awful."

I am also quite difficult to please and DAVE was the first and ONLY DAC from Chord that had me really impressed with digital in most aspects except DSD which it did not excel at imo.

And good as the Qutest /MScaler combo sounds to me via headphones only so far, DAVE /MScaler is even better if as close as possible to how acoustic music actually sounds live is one's ultimate goal.
Acoustic music in general and large scale western classical in particular, still remains my one and only reference point.
I have not yet been able to A/B DAVE on its own with Qutest/MScaler under ideal conditions .
But in some respects Qutest /MScaler will beat DAVE on its own imo.
With DSD it does to my ears. And with 16/44.1 as well.
I am not sure how much the 1M taps matter with actual high sample native rates from 24/96 and higher.
But since the 164000 or whatever number of taps DAVE works at on its own, are not used anyway with an M Scaler into the equation, the main advantages of a Dave with an MScaler might entirely depend on more advanced/better analouge parts PSU and such used in it, than parts used in cheaper dacs like Qutest?
One thing that I don't understand at all is the "elements" 10 versus 20 in DAVE often mentioned by Rob.
Would increasing elements be as important as increasing the number of taps?
If so, why not make a dac with 100 elements or a 1000+ Or 1000000 elements?
Cheers Controversial Christer

Thanks for your reply Christer. From what you have said the Qutest with m-scaler maybe a bargain when you consider the price of DAVE and M-scaler. I was mightily impressed with Qutest in my system and really ought to try it with an m- scaler. The next generation of Chord DACs could be very interesting indeed but difficult to speculate where the performance upgrades are going to come from. Better PSU, more taps, m-scaler 2 or maybe there are areas Rob Watts is looking into that we have yet to know about. Obviously the next Hugo,Mojo and Qutest can all be moved closer to DAVE but where does DAVE go to?
 
Jan 28, 2019 at 12:33 PM Post #2,963 of 7,168
So.... my experience with the Qutest was ummmm 50/50 I'd say.

Reading the various reviews and hype about the Qutest it leads you to believe your listening experience is due to become magical, with extra detail, and overall better sound.

However, this wasn't the case for me and the hype disappointed me somewhat!

Don't get me wrong my personal experience with the this DAC was pleasant in the fact that it feels like a quality device and was easy to set up and use. Whether it bought any magic to my ears? I honestly could not say as I really couldn't hear any difference between the DAC in my pre AMP and the Qutest DAC.

Now I'm no audio expert I'm just your regular enthusiast who spends a little part of my disposable income on technology.

If anyone is looking to get one, I would strongly recommend a home trial. Hope this helps.
 
Last edited:
Jan 28, 2019 at 12:41 PM Post #2,964 of 7,168
So.... my experience with the Qutest was ummmm 50/50 I'd say.

Reading the various reviews and hype about the Qutest it leads you to believe your listening experience is due to become magical, with extra detail, and overall better sound.

However, this wasn't the case for me and the hype disappointed me somewhat!

Don't get me wrong my personal experience with the this DAC was pleasant in the fact that it feels like a quality device and was easy to set up and use. Whether it bought any magic to my ears? I honestly could not say as I really couldn't hear any difference between the DAC in my pre AMP and the Qutest DAC.

Now I'm no audio expert I'm just your regular enthusiast who spends a little part of my disposable income on technology.

If anyone is looking to get one, I would strongly recommend a home trial. Hope this helps.
Which amp?
 
Jan 28, 2019 at 12:53 PM Post #2,966 of 7,168
What speakers and amplifier do you use?
Or do you use headphones?
If setup is not transparent enough, the difference between different DACs will be small.
 
Jan 28, 2019 at 12:56 PM Post #2,968 of 7,168
I doubt that they sound similar,seeing this preamp cost.

Have you used optical input?As our fellow above says,is your system revealing enough?
 
Jan 28, 2019 at 1:13 PM Post #2,970 of 7,168
I doubt that they sound similar,seeing this preamp cost.

Have you used optical input?As our fellow above says,is your system revealing enough?

Strangely when I went back to the preamp DAC, my system sounded more lively... my accommodating wife thought I lost the plot due to my level of concentration and trying to hear that magical difference over the last few weeks.

I tried both the optical and BNC inputs and connecting to the laptop too.

Other sources I tried was a Bluesound Node 2i, Cyrus Stream X Signature and Cyrus CDt CD transport.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top