[Deftone]

Different strokes for different folks.

I can appreciate the strengths of chord DACs, but for my tastes, I find the analog stages to be lacking. This isn't unique to Chord of course, many ultra low distortion amps are often perceived as sterile. Chord DAC/Amps like the Mojo do still manage to avoid sounding sterile considering how well they measure. That's a feat on it's own. But I still find good external amplification to be more dynamically impactful and spacious.

What if chord DACs aren’t sterile, what if they’ve just stripped away all the fluff that was warming up the music and now you’ve found out that it’s actually a lot recordings are thin and sterile...

 

[Rob Watts]

Looking forward to own such a product.
However, I pay attention to small details and I'm confused about one thing.
This information was not included in the initial announcement (on this site) and I saw it added later in the Chord website:
Does the Qutest have a Class A output stage ?
@Rob Watts : Could you please clarify this information for me ?

Yes it is full Class A with discrete transistors, with a single global feedback path.

 

[agedbest]

All products are engineered to meet a target price point.

the 2qute/Qutest use external power supplies to save cost and reduce the end price to consumer, or if the provided is optimal then the extra design into something like the Dave is unnecessary. I lean toward the former.

That doesn't imply that the included supply is inherently compromised or poorly designed.

...or it will be a better choise to have a PSU in the middle range or something better than a few bucks range and performance IMO. also because it is well known

Sometimes we just like to tweak and improve things though, and I like that the Qutest leaves that option up to the consumer for better value IMO.

.....it would be good to say it and not deny it ... informing the buyer about the possibilities.

 

[Rob Watts]

As a former 2Qute owner, I went to a Teddy Pardo PSU despite the many posts by Rob Watts that it would make no difference. But it did, and it was not subtle. So I (regrettably) put Rob onto the ''emperor has no clothes' mindset.
But 18months later, I now believe (as Rob Watts indicated) that it was the AC mains noise induced by the factory PSU affected my amplifier.

So I now, apologetically, admit that the 2Qute outputs are probably identical with factory or aftermarket PSU. The audio chain is complex and we have little appreciation how noise thru metal contact affects everything.
Just my 2 cents...

Some history is important here. One of the very real benefits of following Head-Fi is the invaluable feedback of actual users - and this can, and very much has been be used to improve my designs. With the original Qute I could see lots of posters saying that external PSU's were giving much better sound quality - and because of the number of posters, I decided that this was worthy of investigation, as it indicated a sensitivity to PSU quality. Now at the time, Hugo 1 PSU had no change in performance with the charger connected ot not connected; so this implied that the inexpensive PSU was good enough. But Hugo 1 had extra stages of regulation built in from the charger circuit; so with 2 Qute I added an extra stage of regulation, plus more RF filters. Then I used the best PSU possible - a car battery as it has effectively zero impedance, no RF of LF noise, and 300A of current, and compared this to the supplied charger. With Qute I could indeed hear a huge change with the car battery sounding a lot better - richer, smoother, with better depth and instrument separation. But with 2 Qute I could hear no change at all - this validated the improved isolation within 2 Qute.

But still posters were saying that they could hear a change. The problem I have is that I can only report on what I hear - and that is within the context of my listening systems. So does that mean that posters are wrong or that I am wrong? By far the most likely explanation is that people are responding to the PSU affecting other parts of their system; some manufacturers have very little PSU isolation, and are very sensitive to RF noise from switching PSU's - and this is the most likely explanation.

But there are other factors at play, one being placebo (and yes placebo is a very important effect). Secondly, sometimes people prefer things that are actually worse (although it is difficult to imagine a linear PSU being noisier than a switcher - but a quality switcher actually can have lower levels of RF noise than a linear supply).

So it's difficult to predict whether a PSU will give better or worse sound - that's why I suggest trying a USB battery pack and trying for yourself. If that makes no difference, then a LPSU will either be the same, or will actually make the SQ worse by increasing RF noise levels. Do not assume that a LPSU is lower in RF noise....

So I will continue to post only what my experience actually tells me, even if that gets me into trouble; but that of course does not mean my observations will apply in all systems all of the time.

 

[jayz]

This is what I did - perhaps others might want to try:

* Experiment yourself - just borrow or purchase an LPS and try it within evaluation period, return it if it makes no difference to your system

* If you don't have the time - or don't want to experiment and you have the funds, just get a good LPS knowing it can do no harm to your system

* If you find that an LPS makes a difference to your system, it is not news, nothing magical, not required to argue here - all this has already been explained to us.

Note the key word referred to here is your system - Chord electronics or Rob cannot be expected to cover for every scenario, every use-case and all possible combinations of systems out there. My take is Chord electronics made a technical / strategic decision (considering their own experimental results) that giving away an LPS with every DAC is not good value for money for everyone - I for one applaud this. It takes a confident designer / company to do this - this is clever engineering at play.

At the other end, take typical audiophile brand mentality - bundle a heavy duty, over engineered, ultra super low noise LPS then double the price then everyone is happy. Or better still, start with bad internal power regulation electronics, keep improving it incrementally and charge customers for power supply upgrades every year - perhaps that would have been the solution ?

 

[jwbrent]

What’s the latest word on a release date in the US?

 

[hifipassion]

Hi Rob,

Thanks for your reply. Just want to get to the essence of your message.
Let's say we have :
1. A LPS,
2. A battery
3. A SMPS
Let's assume also, in the same order, that the ripple noise is lowest on the LPS, lower on the battery and noticeable on the SMPS.
Given identical RFI influence that would affect the three sources (*).
- You are suggesting that it will be no sound difference between the three as the filtering inside 2Qute takes care of it ?
- And the improvements we could hear are due to less RFI rather than less ripple noise?
(*) not sure how exactly RFI is finding its way inside, is but I assume it's picked up by the cable that link the source to the dac

 

[dawktah2]

Some history is important here. One of the very real benefits of following Head-Fi is the invaluable feedback of actual users - and this can, and very much has been be used to improve my designs. With the original Qute I could see lots of posters saying that external PSU's were giving much better sound quality - and because of the number of posters, I decided that this was worthy of investigation, as it indicated a sensitivity to PSU quality. Now at the time, Hugo 1 PSU had no change in performance with the charger connected ot not connected; so this implied that the inexpensive PSU was good enough. But Hugo 1 had extra stages of regulation built in from the charger circuit; so with 2 Qute I added an extra stage of regulation, plus more RF filters. Then I used the best PSU possible - a car battery as it has effectively zero impedance, no RF of LF noise, and 300A of current, and compared this to the supplied charger. With Qute I could indeed hear a huge change with the car battery sounding a lot better - richer, smoother, with better depth and instrument separation. But with 2 Qute I could hear no change at all - this validated the improved isolation within 2 Qute.

But still posters were saying that they could hear a change. The problem I have is that I can only report on what I hear - and that is within the context of my listening systems. So does that mean that posters are wrong or that I am wrong? By far the most likely explanation is that people are responding to the PSU affecting other parts of their system; some manufacturers have very little PSU isolation, and are very sensitive to RF noise from switching PSU's - and this is the most likely explanation.

But there are other factors at play, one being placebo (and yes placebo is a very important effect). Secondly, sometimes people prefer things that are actually worse (although it is difficult to imagine a linear PSU being noisier than a switcher - but a quality switcher actually can have lower levels of RF noise than a linear supply).

So it's difficult to predict whether a PSU will give better or worse sound - that's why I suggest trying a USB battery pack and trying for yourself. If that makes no difference, then a LPSU will either be the same, or will actually make the SQ worse by increasing RF noise levels. Do not assume that a LPSU is lower in RF noise....

So I will continue to post only what my experience actually tells me, even if that gets me into trouble; but that of course does not mean my observations will apply in all systems all of the time.

Rob Watts,

Rack mounted outlet strips, not a conditioner or UPS, do they have anything that would create noise in their common design? I am planning on using one after my power conditioner.

Thank you so much for this explanation. I am one that likes to do things once and leave the "tweaking" to others.

 

[aspro]

Some history is important here. One of the very real benefits of following Head-Fi is the invaluable feedback of actual users - and this can, and very much has been be used to improve my designs. With the original Qute I could see lots of posters saying that external PSU's were giving much better sound quality - and because of the number of posters, I decided that this was worthy of investigation, as it indicated a sensitivity to PSU quality. Now at the time, Hugo 1 PSU had no change in performance with the charger connected ot not connected; so this implied that the inexpensive PSU was good enough. But Hugo 1 had extra stages of regulation built in from the charger circuit; so with 2 Qute I added an extra stage of regulation, plus more RF filters. Then I used the best PSU possible - a car battery as it has effectively zero impedance, no RF of LF noise, and 300A of current, and compared this to the supplied charger. With Qute I could indeed hear a huge change with the car battery sounding a lot better - richer, smoother, with better depth and instrument separation. But with 2 Qute I could hear no change at all - this validated the improved isolation within 2 Qute.

But still posters were saying that they could hear a change. The problem I have is that I can only report on what I hear - and that is within the context of my listening systems. So does that mean that posters are wrong or that I am wrong? By far the most likely explanation is that people are responding to the PSU affecting other parts of their system; some manufacturers have very little PSU isolation, and are very sensitive to RF noise from switching PSU's - and this is the most likely explanation.

But there are other factors at play, one being placebo (and yes placebo is a very important effect). Secondly, sometimes people prefer things that are actually worse (although it is difficult to imagine a linear PSU being noisier than a switcher - but a quality switcher actually can have lower levels of RF noise than a linear supply).

So it's difficult to predict whether a PSU will give better or worse sound - that's why I suggest trying a USB battery pack and trying for yourself. If that makes no difference, then a LPSU will either be the same, or will actually make the SQ worse by increasing RF noise levels. Do not assume that a LPSU is lower in RF noise....

So I will continue to post only what my experience actually tells me, even if that gets me into trouble; but that of course does not mean my observations will apply in all systems all of the time.

I find the whole power supply issue fascinating.

When I decided to use my Hugo in the main system I bought a £150 Liv(now Innuos) Wave (Cubox based) streamer. It came with a switch mode power supply. I upgraded to their battery pack PSU which was better e.g. less grainy. I then bought an upgraded DC1 £200 linear power supply from Hifi Custom Cables. The owner Dr Sean Jacobs has worked with Innuos on their power supply design. This was better still. I then upgraded to their top DC3 model and the improvement over the DC1 was not subtle. I was pretty amazed by the experience.

The DC3 now powers an Auralic Aries Mini with solid state hard drive which nows feeds a 2Qute. I bought a DC2 for the 2Qute, admittedly for peace of mind so I don't have any switch mode PSUs in the system at all (I don't need a NAS with the Mini acting as server).

I don't doubt what Rob Watts says but if it's posssible to avoid expensive, heavy and costly linear PSUs by circuit design and filtering why is the rest of the Hifi industry so focused on linear power supplies? I have 4 of the damn things in my system (turntable,streamer, DAC and preamp).

The other thing that surprises me is the relative lack of high quality switch mode supplies on the market.

My digital player/server consistes of 4 boxes. Two admittedly are very small (Aries Mini and 2Qute) but the power supplies are much bigger.

My wish would be for a Qutest with an integral Poly (notwithstanding the teething problems) which has a user fit hard drive so it could act as a player and server like the Aries Mini. This would be a very elegant and cost effective solution. I might even resist changing the PSU that came with it!

 

[agedbest]

Then I used the best PSU possible - a car battery as it has effectively zero impedance, no RF of LF noise, and 300A of current, and compared this to the supplied charger. With Qute I could indeed hear a huge change with the car battery sounding a lot better - richer, smoother, with better depth and instrument separation. But with 2 Qute I could hear no change at all - this validated the improved isolation within 2 Qute.

Sorry Rob, where do you found a 300A 12v DC on the market? ....because if there is one, i want it also me...... may be you are refering to battery CCA capability, but is not the same.

and not useable as refence for Qutest because there is not a 5v DC battery....
nothing without an internal swich....switch can output same noise of PSU added in the box
for this reason a 5v powerbank can not be used to compare the factory PSU

 

[jcn3]

Sorry if this has been asked before, I did not find it in the thread but is the Qutest "Roon Ready" ?

the qutest is not a player/streamer -- it is a dac. players/streamers may or may not be roon ready, not dacs.

 

[rettib2001]

With units starting to make their way to customers I was wondering if anybody feels confortable enough commenting on which, between the coax input and USB, sounds the best (subjective)?

I ask because I've just opened my 'gadget draw' and I've got a Schiit Eitr, Curious Cable and Allo DigiOne with a decent BNC to BNC cable as options for output from a Raspberry Pi 3 (Roon/HQplayer Naa/Audirvana DLNA).

Which one should I use and which ones should go?

 

[jayz]

Sorry Rob, where do you found a 300A 12v DC on the market? ....because if there is one, i want it also me......

You are in luck. There is an offer currently http://www.halfords.com/motoring/bu...ear-guarantee-hb063-lead-acid-12v-car-battery

 

[AlexB73]

I have a negitive expirience using LPSU with 2qute.
I had MRCU LPS for 2qute. I did long break-in for this device.
But tonal ballance of 2qute-MRCU LPSU was horrible, untatural, non-musical.
I have more than 18 years expiriance in audiophilea and I listened a lot of diferent sources in my current system. I never heared such awful tonal ballance before.
My respect to Rob Watts good test, because 2qute has a very good tonal ballance with the wall power supply.
I believe that other LPSU can sound better with 2qute compared the wall power supply. But my experience with MRCU LPSU was very negative.
Bottom line I lost my money by reselling MRCU LPSU.

 

[agedbest]

You are in luck. There is an offer currently http://www.halfords.com/motoring/bu...ear-guarantee-hb063-lead-acid-12v-car-battery

Sorry but Startup Power: 360 Amps is Cold Cranking Amps (CCA) for a battery NOT the battery capacity - measure the discharge load in amperes that a new, fully-charged battery can deliver for 30 seconds, while still maintaining terminal voltage equal to or higher than 1.20 volts per cell in a cold environment (0°F/-18°C).

what you linked is 41A capacity battery, so you are wrong

my question to Rob Watts still remain