[Hooster]

A new Chord chat and lounge thread i have started over on the members lounge section. It's an area to just relax a little if anyone is interested. Hooster h2 is built like a tank?!!!

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chord-electronics-lounge-and-chat-area.892658/

Your very kind, MK, considering you had 3 defective units.

 

[musickid]

It was 2 bad ones because with one unit when my iem didn't fit perfectly i returned the hugo2 thinking it was faulty.... due to lack of experience on my side. My new silver hugo2 is working brilliantly and i'll miss it when i upgrade to tt2.

 

[111MilesToGo]

Please, I am seeking help here regarding DSD playback on the Hugo 2 when fed by a Linux system, be that a full-size Linux OS on a computer or a trimmed-down Linux system on a server (e.g. Intel NUC or ROCK with Roon Linux Core).

I am using MPD (Music Player Daemon, with clients Cantata or others as GUI front-end) on my laptop, going to the Hugo 2 via USB. I have two Linux operating systems in use, openSUSE Tumbleweed and Manjaro. Both have the same MPD configuration. All PCM replay (from FLAC files, tested up to 24/192) works fine.

Under Linux, DSD to Chord DACs can be transported only as DoP (from DSF files, I have DSD64, DSD128 and DSD256). Works fine, but with one exception: When playing a DSD256 file and then pausing or stopping the replay, an audible high-frequency "tone" is produced. Awful! (Not too loud to destroy headphones or IEMs, though.)

I went through a lot of trials and tribulations to find the reason, and as of now it seems to point to the Linux MPD doing something flawed when it should output digital silence in DoP. However, before submitting a bug report to MPD, I would like to collect my Hugo 2 comrades' experience, since the MPD developer/maintainer is quite strict in dismissing feedback that is not really serious and proven in the soundest way.

The tests done up to now are:

1. Use two independent Linux systems (cf. above, Tumbleweed and Manjaro), identical MPD configs
   - Same awful flaw on both!
2. Use two different MPD clients on Linux, Cantata and GMPC (Gnome Music Player Client)
   - Same flaw with both!
   
3. Check with Roon under Windows 8.1: Use Chord WASAPI and Chord ASIO audio drivers with all their respective capabilities (both WASAPI and ASIO doing DoP, only ASIO does native DSD)
   - No flaws observed!
   
4. Check with foobar2000 version 1.4 under Windows 8.1: Use foo_input_sacd.fb2k_component version 1.1.0 (AFAIK, it reads the DSD audio file into DoP format), and send that to Chord WASAPI and Chord ASIO drivers for DoP playback, or via the dsd_transcoder 1.0.10 as native DSD to the Chord ASIO driver
   - No flaws observed!

This is the audio portion from my MPD config file:

#### Chord Hugo 2
audio_output {
    type                "alsa"
    name                "Hugo2 - USB Audio"
##    device              "hw:2,0"
    device              "hw:CARD=Hugo2,DEV=0"
    auto_resample       "no"
    auto_format         "no"
    auto_channels       "no"
    dop                 "yes"
    replay_gain_handler "none"
    mixer_type          "none"
}
#### end of Chord Hugo 2

#### AudioQuest DragonFly Red
audio_output {
    type                "alsa"
    name                "Dragonfly Red - USB Audio"
##    device              "hw:2,0"
    device              "hw:CARD=v10,DEV=0"
    auto_resample       "no"
    auto_format         "no"
    auto_channels       "no"
    dop                 "no"
    replay_gain_handler "none"
    mixer_type          "none"
}
#### end of AudioQuest DragonFly Red

#### general settings for all output devices
resampler {
    plugin              "libsamplerate"
    type                "0"
}
replaygain                  "off"

Admittedly, it's more than the portion relevant to the issue described here, which is the Hugo 2 audio_output section only. I am showing more since (1) I also have an AudioQuest DragonFly Red, so I have two audio_output sections which can be switched from the MPD clients, and (2) the Dragon Fly has limited bitrate capabilities and thus needs downsampling. Of course, I did check that the presence of the DragonFly stuff and the resampler is NOT the cause for the Hugo 2 DSD256 issue described here.

Thanks in advance for providing your insight, experience and help.

EDIT: In case I am mistaken on anything here, please let me know - very grateful for any help!

 

[happy hopping]

What about these "reasons"?

- https://headfonics.com/2017/09/the-hugo-2-by-chord-electronics/

- https://www.headfonia.com/review-chord-electronics-hugo-2-ruler-of-sound/

- https://darko.audio/2017/09/top-of-the-pops-chord-electronics-outstanding-hugo-2/

Instead of hearing with the others ears why don't you give CH2 a try and decide by yourself?

I love to. In particular an A-B test compares to the Sony PHA-3 that I own. There is no dealer in town, and this is a special order item, so how do you guys get a trial test on the unit?

 

[111MilesToGo]

Another post on the previous topic^^^, running the Hugo 2 under Linux.

As I said, the only way to replay DSD under Linux to Chord DACs is DoP. There is no difference SQ-wise, unless the increased bit overhead and CPU load become detrimental.

However, with Linux being run on so many dedicated servers like Intel NUCs, Roon ROCKs, Raspberries a.o. and on many desktop systems, it would be a major step forward to get native DSD replay from Linux to those Chord DACs which are capable of it. AFAIK, it takes amendment(s) to the Linux Kernel https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/master/sound/usb/quirks.c, something which has been mentioned in a number of web places, e.g. https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/38154-chord-qutest/?do=findComment&comment=871414.

Is there anybody here at Head-Fi who (1) might know more why Chord hasn't done anything towards native DSD under Linux - yes, they simply rely on DoP as on the Mac, (2) might know how we as Hugo 2 / Chord DAC owners could convince Chord to cooperate, i.e. have contacts to some person(s) at Chord who are open for Linux, or (3) might know himself what code to put into quirks.c?

I think that there would be many others out there with the same desire to get the full functionality from Chord DACs also under Linux, given the large number of potential users (Linux music servers, deskptop systems). Maybe we could start a petition to Chord ...

I would be grateful for your knowledge and opinions.

EDIT: In case I am mistaken on anything here, please let me know - very grateful for help!

 

[silvahr]

I love to. In particular an A-B test compares to the Sony PHA-3 that I own. There is no dealer in town, and this is a special order item, so how do you guys get a trial test on the unit?

I went to the nearest dealer that had a trial unit (about 70km from where I live). Tested CH2 and bought one in the same day . Was easy .

 

[flyte3333]

When playing a DSD256 file and then pausing or stopping the replay, an audible high-frequency "tone" is produced. Awful!

Is this only an issue with MPD? Or with a direct connection to Roon ROCK for you also?

If you only get a HF noise with MPD and not with Roon and the rest of the chain is the same, then it may be an issue with MPD - not Hugo2 and not Roon.

Roon ROCK and DoP256 is no problem with my Hugo2 over USB, even when I pause or stop the music...

 

[111MilesToGo]

Is this only an issue with MPD? Or with a direct connection to Roon ROCK for you also?

If you only get a HF noise with MPD and not with Roon and the rest of the chain is the same, then it may be an issue with MPD - not Hugo2 and not Roon.

Roon ROCK and DoP256 is no problem with my Hugo2 over USB, even when I pause or stop the music...

Thanks a lot!

Yes, it is an issue only with MPD on Linux. So, the conclusion is ... Still, I‘d like to find somebody who runs the very same setup, Linux MPD into H2.

No, I don‘t have Roon ROCK, just an all-in-one Roon under Windows; this is working correctly.

Looking forward to more feedback!

 

[flyte3333]

Thanks a lot!

Yes, it is an issue only with MPD on Linux. So, the conclusion is ... Still, I‘d like to find somebody who runs the very same setup, Linux MPD into H2.

No, I don‘t have Roon ROCK, just an all-in-one Roon under Windows; this is working correctly.

Looking forward to more feedback!

No problem.

When you said: "I am seeking help here regarding DSD playback on the Hugo 2 when fed by a Linux system, be that a full-size Linux OS on a computer or a trimmed-down Linux system on a server (e.g. Intel NUC or ROCK with Roon Linux Core)." - I thought you had also tested Roon ROCK. Apologies I misunderstood there.

I hope someone here can help you with the MPD issue.

 

[111MilesToGo]

... I thought you had also tested Roon ROCK. Apologies I misunderstood there.

Oh, entirely my fault. I apologize.

 

[514077]

Within the topic: How does one ensure that FB2K is sending out DSD in native form? I'm using Foo_Input_SACD V1.1.0. I'd just like to be sure.

 

[stereog]

Hi everybody,
few points I have observed regarding DSD playback on Hugo2 while i did very careful A/B between Hugo 2 and Hugo 1
(mine results and decision which one to keep will come later, maybe not all here will like it, but be prepared
back to DSD.. i used fiio player connected to both Hugo by coax cable SPDIF Out:
Fiio can handle DSD play back in two mode D2P (DSD to PCM) and DoP (DSD over PCM)
DoP is a direct stream without resampling (white code LED)
DTP resampling to PCM and after out (yellow code led)
So, doing this two mode test:
in DoP - Hugo 2 have big problem, soundstage is completely crew out, and it make strange steop up in volume.
I mean if both Hugo v1 and v2 set to volume green lets say, Hugo 2 start to play much loder and destorted.
in DTP mode bot play very well with the same volume level.
Now Hugo1 have no difference Dop vs DTP, all perfect and sweet
Hugo 2, can handle well only PCM stream, while native DoP beter stay away.

More of my observations comming... (but some of you better don't read..)

PS if you upgrade from Hugo 1 to Hugo 2, please.. PLEASE not sale your old Hugo for a while.

 

[514077]

Hi everybody,
few points I have observed regarding DSD playback on Hugo2 while i did very careful A/B between Hugo 2 and Hugo 1
(mine results and decision which one to keep will come later, maybe not all here will like it, but be prepared
back to DSD.. i used fiio player connected to both Hugo by coax cable SPDIF Out:
Fiio can handle DSD play back in two mode D2P (DSD to PCM) and DoP (DSD over PCM)
DoP is a direct stream without resampling (white code LED)
DTP resampling to PCM and after out (yellow code led)
So, doing this two mode test:
in DoP - Hugo 2 have big problem, soundstage is completely crew out, and it make strange steop up in volume.
I mean if both Hugo v1 and v2 set to volume green lets say, Hugo 2 start to play much loder and destorted.
in DTP mode bot play very well with the same volume level.
Now Hugo1 have no difference Dop vs DTP, all perfect and sweet
Hugo 2, can handle well only PCM stream, while native DoP beter stay away.

More of my observations comming... (but some of you better don't read..)

PS if you upgrade from Hugo 1 to Hugo 2, please.. PLEASE not sale your old Hugo for a while.

You are aware, of course, that Hugo1 does DoP while Hugo2 does native? At least, that's my understanding from @Rob Watts.

 

[stereog]

You are aware, of course, that Hugo1 does DoP while Hugo2 does native? At least, that's my understanding from @Rob Watts.

ok, good. That makes sense.
Hope Hugo 2 do native DSD well. (can't check it anymore..)
But who stream DSD from device with only DoP and D2P options, be aware, DoP not good for Hugo 2. Your choice is D2P, so converted, or use native whenever you can.

DoP = Native DSD (so Hugo 1 is fine)
https://www.northstar.it/dsd-native-vs-dop/

 

[514077]

ok, good. That makes sense.
Hope Hugo 2 do native DSD well. (can't check it anymore..)
But who stream DSD from device with only DoP and D2P options, be aware, DoP not good for Hugo 2. Your choice is D2P, so converted, or use native whenever you can.

DoP = Native DSD (so Hugo 1 is fine)
https://www.northstar.it/dsd-native-vs-dop/

Just FYI, Rob stated that the implementation of DSD in Hugo2 is an improvement over the DAVE's DSD processing.