Chord Electronics - Hugo 2 - The Official Thread

[rkt31]

 
It is correct that DoP means DSD over PCM but is it not PCM, nor it is native DSD. I am a heavy user of DSD and i quite like the way Mojo or Hugo handles DSD. Mojo handles version 1.1 of DoP while Hugo handles version 1.0 with Audirvana. I f you have only an Apple Mac like me, we do not have drivers to output Native DSD, we can only output DoP at best from a Mac. I believe for Windows it is different and you can have a driver that you need to load to manage native DSD.

dop is dsd encoded into pcm. you can also save dop files as pcm flacs in j river and play through any dap to external dac which reads this dsd encoded pcm. if the external dac is not compatible it will play the dsd encoded pcm but will output white noise. prior to my fiio x3 2nd gen latest update, i encoded many dsd files over pcm in j river and saved as flac and played through fiio x3 to mojo. mojo easily recognized the stream just like real time dop. now since fiio updated its firmware to support real time dop streaming, i no longer need to save dop flacs via j river. however fiio x3  is limited to dsd64 only.

 

[rkt31]

Regarding DSD, my question is, if it decimates it, or not?

as far as i know all chord dacs use some kind of processing with dsd data. hugo,mojo, tt all decimates the dsd data. dave does not exactly decimates but still uses heavy processing ( even pcm is heavily processed to upsample and noise filtering ) with dsd. i have not used dacs which handle dsd natively. ( dsd native handling may even mean for some that the dac takes dsd input in native form instead of dsd as dop and that's what chord mean for hugo 2 ) but experts say that simply analog low passing the dsd stream ( as claimed by native dsd dacs) is not the greatest idea specially for dsd64. dsd128 and above though benefit with additional information but still limited by the 1 bit resolution of the stream. rob watts has explained it a number of times, why dsd needs to processed indigital domain to get the best out of it. i have used mojo and hugo for dsd64 to dsd256(mojo only ) and not found wanting both the dacs in any area. in fact i compared dsd and pcm version of same file and the impression was same as reported by many that dsd sound softer while pcm has better depth and imaging.

 

[TG04]

I'm with you you, I also don't need mobile or streaming.  So let's take inventory, before all this computer audio started, where were we?  Spinning CD's as I best recall (or maybe even LPs if you're that lucky).  So let's keep that in perspective and ponder the $64k question: why is that ripped albums sounds so good on the computer/headphone setup yet a conventional CD outperforms by a good margin in the "big rig" -- and please don't tell me I need to get a $10,000 DAC // TG

 

[514077]

Does anyone know what advantage native DSD will provide over the DSD capabilities of the original Hugo and Mojo? Is it mainly to allow higher res DSD?

Don't know.  But I hope it will elliminate the PITA frustration of setting up with FB2K.
I believ, to inaccurately quote Questyle, Native means less processing.  Several reviewers have stated that Q., rates highly with it's DSD results.
I happen to like my DSD content, and if H2 improves ease of access, great!

 

[Christer]

  I'm with you you, I also don't need mobile or streaming.  So let's take inventory, before all this computer audio started, where were we?  Spinning CD's as I best recall (or maybe even LPs if you're that lucky).  So let's keep that in perspective and ponder the $64k question: why is that ripped albums sounds so good on the computer/headphone setup yet a conventional CD outperforms by a good margin in the "big rig" -- and please don't tell me I need to get a $10,000 DAC // TG

Sorry to disagree but imho, you would rather need a  10K CD player and still be behind what basically any good DAC does.
Now LPs and direct cut LPs are of course something completey different. In some respects digital still struggles to sounds as good as those at their best.
As far as computer audio is concerned  that is where  probably ALL your music recordings if you are too young to know LP at its best, originates from, ie with HI RES master files and a good DAC you have every chance to hear the closest approach to the  actual master quality heard at sessions.
You may not like it but that is another matter.
RBCD  at best comes  third in this race.

 

[rkt31]

performance of any digital recording be it native or made from analog master depends upon the adc. even the best dacs like Dave can't rectify the anomalies created during the analog to digital conversion by an adc. so in that way lps cut directly from analog master have some advantage . may be chord Davina is able to change all that. so analog master/ live feed to Davina to Dave is the closest you get to the live performance ( better than LPs cut from analog master or even playback of analog master itself )

 

[Deftone]

Hugo 2 looks very nice indeed

Now I need to sell a kidney, anyone feel free to pm me about a potential buyers in the black market.

 

[music4mhell]

Hugo 2 looks very nice indeed

Now I need to sell a kidney, anyone feel free to pm me about a potential buyers in the black market.

Other Kidney can be used for Hugo 2 Wifi/SD card Addon "Joly" in future !

 

[TG04]

Thank you, Christer and rkt31 for bringing analogue into the discussion. A year or two back I read an op-ed type of article in Stereophile and the author (probably Art Dudley, but am not sure) argued that LPs sound better because of the actual motion involved both at the source and the loudspeaker, especially direct-to-disc.  The idea is that somehow the fact that you have a mechanical object (i.e. the needle) vibrating in space which converts into an electrical signal that's pushed through wires & electronics generating the corresponding mechanical vibration in the loudspeaker cone and that the two are connected, like the action/reaction type of thing.  The author seems to feel that some of that physical energy can be recreated even if cutting vinyl from a digital transfer (of an analogue tape) which is why even a newly minted LP outperforms its CD/download compadres.
 
Well, I just hope I'm not misrepresenting his concepts but clearly this is an aspect gone missing in computer audio. Personally, I'm a sucker for that sort of almost metaphysical thinking but let's just file that one under "esoteric notions" for now. // TG

 

[TG04]

 
I wonder the same as you.
But does HUGO 2 really do DSD natively?
If so, it would be the first ever  Chord DAC to do so.I interpreted the presentation covering DSD as more refined filtering employed. But still the same decimating approach as before?
Another thing that now seems clarified via a response from Rob over at the DAVE thread is that HUGO 2 will NOT have galvanic isolation. Bummer. That is one area where my Benchmark DAC2 HGC is vastly  superior to my HUGO. The Benchmark is  super smooth and full bodied compared to HUGO´s suceptibility to RF  ground loops or whatever has caused it to sound unlistenable in my home system far too often apart from those flimsy bad RCA connections.
This means I would still have to buy an Intona or similar proper galvanic isolator for home use.
Moreover Rob claims the reason for this lack of galvanic isolation even on HUGO 2 is that it is mainly intended for" planes,trains and automobiles."
I never listen to music  on planes although I too am a frequent flyer.
I don´t own any noise cancelling headphones and there are no such phones that I consider good enough for the classical music I almost always listen to.
Besides I don´t think that my fellow travellers would appreciate my taking out my baton and conducting along to what I would be listening to at such times.
Unfortunately  I rarely get to  fly 1st class or business class anyway.
The same applies to trains although they are generally a bit less noisy.
And when I drive my car I partly go into creative mode but keep the main part  of my attention on the road ahead and the traffic around  me.
I would be a  real traffic danger if listening to Mozart or Beethoven while driving.
Classical music is intoxicating!
I simply don´t get this obsession of listening to music while doing something completely different while doing so.
Music as a background to something else except dancing, is basically just noise to me.
It sounds promising though, if HUGO 2  actually sounds fuller and with more body than sometimes thin and wiry HUGO.
One of the most underestimated things in audio engineering these days is the need for LOTS AND LOTS of power especially at loud climaxes in symphonic music.
At home my amp reaches peaks of 300- 400 hundred watts on a regular basis. Sometimes more.
HUGO doesn´t do Mahler  very well for example.With good headphones there is simply not enough power from HUGO. 
If  warmth ,fullnes and power are  done without compromise and colourations that could actually be an indication of more resolution and better more realistic SQ.
With few exceptions as for example some  bad venues acoustic music actually sounds both warmer and fuller than via HUGO and most  other digital for that matter. The only exception being DSD which actually has a tendency to almost always sound warmer and softer than the real thing. No digititis with DSD. But at the expense of lower resolution. At least with standard  DSD 64.
With this  new information coming I will probably not really be in rush to buy HUGO 2. I will carefully compare it to competitor´s products in the same price range first and according to some here and over at Computer Audiophile there might be some interesting alternatives which might give HUGO 2 a good run for its money.
And one thing that confuses me is the M scaler  everybody seems obessed about,which to me seems to be some kind of upsampler and according to some other experts upsampling could be done in software  both cheaper and better than in
"überexpensive hardware".
Anyway hopefully Rob doesn´t do his serious  testlistening on "planes, trains or automobiles".

Hello again, Christer.  Question: is it the consensus view that Chord DACs aren't as outstanding on DSD as they are on PCM?  I know RW advocates 16/44.1 and feels the Mojo will make up for the difference and so far I tend to agree. Don't have very many DSD files, though.  There was a voucher in my Mojo box for a free sampler download at NativeDSD and it left me unimpressed.  So I downloaded some more but remain unimpressed, even with the quad-DSD test tracks they offer.  The best I found sofar have been by Opus3 Records (available at DSDfile.com) and by Proprius Records/Naxos 2xHD (available at NativeDSD.com) and a few tracks by a fellow named David Elias (courtesy of Oppo Digital).  Incidentally, I can hear no difference btw DoP 2.8 and 11.2, guess I just have tin ears - or is it tinnitus from listening on earphones?  Do you think converting to PCM would improve the sound (I believe 24-88.2 would occupy similar disk space as DSD64)?

 

[Peter Hyatt]

I know you're a big fan of the Mojo, are you considering this as well Peter? How about the poly?

I am buying poly.

I will be in Geneva the first week of April so Pily should be available there even if US dealers don't have it on yet.

I want Hugo 2.

If finances allow, I'd love to be on the long flight from Maine to Switzerland with Hogo, a power bank and feeling tired but amazed.

If reviews place Hugo 2 close to Dave than Mojo, I'll struggle not to buy it!

 

[TG04]

Ah, Geneva in the Spring! Lovely, just don't eat the lake fish.  Also, with USD/CHF basically at parity (was nearly 2-for-1 in early 2000's), it is doubtful you will be happy when you get the credit card statement.  After Brexit, on the other hand, with Pound Sterling falling some 20% you may be better off changing planes in London and picking it up in the tax-free zone at Heathrow.  Would probably require some advance planning, though.  In any case, have a safe trip! // TG

 

[rkt31]

@TG04, I am not expert but over the years after reading in many forum imho the biggest difference between all analog and digital chain is the fact the even after heavy processing in all analog chain the basic nature of the sound wave remains same ie it remains continuous wave. so in a way in the end transients remains 'true to the flavour of processing '. while once the continuous analog wave is converted into discrete values ( even those discrete values may not be exact representative of original wav due to adc's limitations) , any processing afterwards in digital domain will only degrade the original transient information because we are dealing with discrete values instead of continous analog wave ( all digital processes algorithm may not use very high samples before and after) and degradation of transient is the biggest reason why digital is still trying to catch up with analog master. though Davina to Dave combo may set new standards in preserving those transients from start to end ( except those are not disturbed by some other digital processing algorithm for eq, gain etc in between the Davina to Dave )

 

[ismewor]

Hello again, Christer.  Question: is it the consensus view that Chord DACs aren't as outstanding on DSD as they are on PCM?  I know RW advocates 16/44.1 and feels the Mojo will make up for the difference and so far I tend to agree. Don't have very many DSD files, though.  There was a voucher in my Mojo box for a free sampler download at NativeDSD and it left me unimpressed.  So I downloaded some more but remain unimpressed, even with the quad-DSD test tracks they offer.  The best I found sofar have been by Opus3 Records (available at DSDfile.com) and by Proprius Records/Naxos 2xHD (available at NativeDSD.com) and a few tracks by a fellow named David Elias (courtesy of Oppo Digital).  Incidentally, I can hear no difference btw DoP 2.8 and 11.2, guess I just have tin ears - or is it tinnitus from listening on earphones?  Do you think converting to PCM would improve the sound (I believe 24-88.2 would occupy similar disk space as DSD64)?

I couldn't agree 100%, some dsd file isn't that great because it is just up sampling from 44.1/ however there are some that sound really awesome out there too.
Also the digital transport that you play the file will determine how good the sound can be. Always fix the sources than the dac can do its job.

 

[jlbrach]

I am buying poly.

I will be in Geneva the first week of April so Pily should be available there even if US dealers don't have it on yet.

I want Hugo 2.

If finances allow, I'd love to be on the long flight from Maine to Switzerland with Hogo, a power bank and feeling tired but amazed.

If reviews place Hugo 2 close to Dave than Mojo, I'll struggle not to buy it!

I have the ave and the Mojo and will be getting the HUgo 2...I am quite sure it will be closer to the Mojo than the Dave