[flyte3333]

This is deadly serious.

Always stirring the pot MK! With your million taps over there...

 

[musickid]

Beautiful air and things i've never heard before with h2/blu2 effect (my hms). listening to jazz violin with menuhin and grappelli on a dull monday is really something. what time is it down under? it's 140pm here.

 

[JaZZ]

How can that be? They're exactly the same cable save for length and termination. In fact, would a shorter run not be less likely to degrade on its way to the driver?

It's hard to tell which is the worse evil: the adapter or the unnecessary cable length. Personally I would chose the shorter cable and accept the adapter – based on my experience with HiFiMan's HE1000 cables which offer the same choice. Maybe there are some audiophile adapters around...

Adding an Amp to the Hugo 2 - Good or Bad?
Here is my take about adding a good amp** to the Hugo 2, based on my own extensive experience. This post is for users who are in a dilemma about adding an amp or are interested in knowing the alternative side to 'why add an amp to the Chord DAC?' mentality.

Spoiler

My Preferences:
Its vital to know my preferences so that you can make a sound judgement and decide if my opinion carries weight or not. My tonal preference scale tips just a touch on the warm side of neutral. Actually, I like neutral as long as it is not bright or lean. In fact I can even handle some brightness, but what I can't handle is if the mid-range lacks sufficient body. I hate peaky treble that try to artificially boost details. I like a large soundstage and am sensitive to weirdness in soundstages. Or if the the soundstage is small, it better have depth and focus like the Utopia. I find the Hugo 2 just a touch on the bright and lean side of neutral.

Loss in Transparency - A Myth?:
The Loss in Transparency thing is a bit overblown. I understand that adding an amp adds some noise and distortion, which in turn can result in reduction in transparency. While it holds true on paper, in real world experience, there are some very good transparent amps that don't adversely impact the transparency. Meaning, the low level noise and distortion that might show up on measurements, don't translate to audible loss in transparency. What you might lose in some cases is the pitch black background. But the transparency of the instrument and vocal notes itself stay intact.

Benefits of Adding an Amp:
Regardless of a tube amp or a solid state amp, I have noticed some consistent improvements in the perceived sound quality when adding an amp.
- Improved Bass Impact - Here I am NOT referring to big or bloated bass, that would give a false sense of added bass power. But I am referring to strength and impact of the bass hits and how deep the bass can be felt. With most amps, the bass notes hit harder and puncher, while remaining tight and clean. In comparison, Hugo 2's bass impact can come across as soft
- Bigger Soundstage - A larger and expansive stage is something I have noticed even when adding a good $300-$500 amp to my Hugo 2. While the $300 amps were not able to improve the depth further, it did improve upon the width and height. And with some higher-up amps in the chain, I have heard all 3 dimensions improve considerably and also have a holographic quality
- Removal of Stress in the Presentation - With certain amps in the chain the presentation felt it was received of stress and sounded more open. While it may sound like it is related to the soundstage, it is not the same. This is something that is difficult to explain. Its like until you heard a good sounding system, you didn't know what good sound actually sounds like. Similarly, you won't notice the stress in Hugo 2's presentation until you experience it with an amp that removes the stress.
- Better Drive of High-Impedance Dynamic HPs and Hard-to-Drive Planar HPs - The high-impedance dynamic headphones (300 Ohm Sennheisers, ZMFs, Beyers) and hard-to-drive planar headphones (LCD4, Abyss, HE5,6, Susvara) are the type of the headphones that benefit the most when adding a good amp in the chain. These type of headphones scale well with more openness and a more authoritative presentation with the right amp in the chain. In fact, I would go to the extent of saying that these HPs definitely need an amp in the chain
- Getting Rid of Hiss on Super-Sensitive IEMs - In the Transparency section, I mentioned the slight loss of pitch black background when adding an amp. But it kinda works the other way round for some super sensitive IEMs. IEM like the Zeus, Andromeda, SE846 etc, have a hiss out of Hugo 2's HO. Adding an amp with low noise floor has helps get rid of hiss

Tube Amps and Hugo 2:
If you find the Hugo 2 to be lean and bright sounding, adding an appropriate tube amp may help fix this. But keep in mind that not all tube amps are made the same. In fact there are tube amps that sound lean. Also some tube amps take the warmth and thickness way too far into the warmpoo territory. A good tube amp adds wetness within an acceptable range, and also imparts some other benefits. Yes, a good tube amp can offer benefits other than just the wetness. For one, they help take the edge off the treble, while retaining the articulation, detail and airiness. They also have a certain holographic character that you can't find in even TOTL solid-state amps. They can impart some body and dimension to the notes that improve the sense of realism.

Disadvantages of Amps and When Amps May Not be Worth It:
Of course I have to be fair and mention the disadvantages of adding an amp to the chain
- With some amps and depending on the headphone, you may lose that pitch black background of the Hugo 2
- The realm of amplifiers is a rabbit hole of its own and a money drainer. With the interconnects, power cables, clean power supplies and vacuum tubes and what not, it is easy to spend a fortune before you realise you have gone far down the hole
- Amps work with the power supply provided from the power socket, and the power sockets at home are not exactly built with audiophiles in mind as they can be quite noisy. So even some amps with low noise floor can pick up noise from noisy power sockets
- An amp you like might have only a 4-Pin XLR heapdhone socket, which means investing in additional cables
- If you are constantly on the move, investing in an amp may not be totally worth it
- Also, if your headphone is a easy-to-drive planar or dynamic HP, the benefit of adding the amp may not be worth it


** - I can't stress enough on the word 'good' as my post assumes that any reference to an amp, automatically means a good amp. While the term good is subjective and vague, for the sake of this post, here is my definition. A good amp is one that objectively measures well (low noise, low distortion, high slew rate with respect respect to its output power) or is agreed upon by a crowd of experienced people subjectively that the amp sounds good or both.

I absolutely respect your approach. From my own perspective it just seems a bit absurd, though, given that there is a much simpler, cheaper, more logical and more constructive method of achieving your goals in terms of tonal-balance corrections: equalizing. This if we ignore the wish for explicit euphonic colorations from respective harmonic-distortion patterns, which may very well enable an effective masking of other shortcomings in the chain, particularly the notoriously uneven amplitude responses of sound transducers.

Although I haven't auditioned every headphone amp on the planet, I can say that I haven't met one that offered better bass «control» (let's better speak of «accuracy») than the direct connection with one of the Chord DAC/amps – from Hugo to DAVE –, even with the so-called hard-to-drive HD 800 and HE1000. And when it comes to «punch», there's always Rob's «phat» coming to mind, standing for an overblown bass that pretends to be super-controlled and -dynamic. Actually it's easy to fall for this trick. As easy as increasing the low-frequency area to get a comparable effect, just with better accuracy.

I did a lot of direct-drive experiments in the past – long before the Hugo era –, which let me discover how overrated (headphone) amps are: All add a massive amount of coloration and no benefit in terms of dynamics or other audiophile attributes apart from warmth and forgivingness. This in comparison with the (low-impedance!) line outs of DACs. So from my personal view and my personal sonic ideals the merits of amps are overblown – and the harm they do to the signal (transparency!) is underrated.

 

[flyte3333]

Beautiful air and things i've never heard before with h2/blu2 effect (my hms). listening to jazz violin with menuhin and grappelli on a dull monday is really something. what time is it down under? it's 140pm here.

1am here. Late night listening session.

 

[EagleWings]

I absolutely respect your approach. From my own perspective it just seems a bit absurd, though, given that there is a much simpler, cheaper, more logical and more constructive method of achieving your goals in terms of tonal-balance corrections: equalizing. This if we ignore the wish for explicit euphonic colorations from respective harmonic-distortion patterns, which may very well enable an effective masking of other shortcomings in the chain, particularly the notoriously uneven amplitude responses of sound transducers.

Although I haven't auditioned every headphone amp on the planet, I can say that I haven't met one that offered better bass «control» (let's better speak of «accuracy») than the direct connection with one of the Chord DAC/amps – from Hugo to DAVE –, even with the so-called hard-to-drive HD 800 and HE1000. And when it comes to «punch», there's always Rob's «phat» coming to mind, standing for an overblown bass that pretends to be super-controlled and -dynamic. Actually it's easy to fall for this trick. As easy as increasing the low-frequency area to get a comparable effect, just with better accuracy.

I did a lot of direct-drive experiments in the past – long before the Hugo era –, which let me discover how overrated (headphone) amps are: All add a massive amount of coloration and no benefit in terms of dynamics or other audiophile attributes apart from warmth and forgivingness. This in comparison with the (low-impedance!) line outs of DACs. So from my personal view and my personal sonic ideals the merits of amps are overblown – and the harm they do to the signal (transparency!) is underrated.

Thanks for sharing your experience. But my findings are quite different from yours and part of that is definitely preferences. I am a big time EQ user (JRMC on Mac and Neutral Player on R6), and in my experience, EQ just can't quite achieve certain things that amps could. Not only can they NOT recreate the wetness/richness of tube amps, they also can’t provide the holographic stage of the tube amps. The same goes for treble glare.

I would never call the HD800 as hard-to-drive. Its a high impedance phone that scales well with certain amps. I have only tried the HE1000 on amps at meets, so I can't comment how efficient it is and if it will benefit from amping. But planars like the LCD-4, Abyss or HE6 benefit from adding a powerful amp in the chain. Yes, fat bass can give the effect of more impact, for example, my EC Black Widow 2 does that. But many amps can make the bass go deeper and have a stronger sense of impact while keeping it super tight, like the Mcintosh MHA150, Gilmore Lite Mk2, GSX Mk2 etc.

 

[JaZZ]

Thanks for sharing your experience. But my findings are quite different from yours and part of that is definitely preferences. I am a big time EQ user (JRMC on Mac and Neutral Player on R6), and in my experience, EQ just can't quite achieve certain things that amps could. Not only can they NOT recreate the wetness/richness of tube amps, they also can’t provide the holographic stage of the tube amps. The same goes for treble glare.

I would never call the HD800 as hard-to-drive. Its a high impedance phone that scales well with certain amps. I have only tried the HE1000 on amps at meets, so I can't comment how efficient it is and if it will benefit from amping. But planars like the LCD-4, Abyss or HE6 benefit from adding a powerful amp in the chain. Yes, fat bass can give the effect of more impact, for example, my EC Black Widow 2 does that. But many amps can make the bass go deeper and have a stronger sense of impact while keeping it super tight, like the Mcintosh MHA150, Gilmore Lite Mk2, GSX Mk2 etc.

I'm not sure if your findings are so much different from mine – after all I agree on most of yours. We just seem to have different sonic preferences. I agree on your statement that you can't reproduce all effects from headphone amps (and cables for that matter) via equalizing; where we differ is just on the desirability of such effects, which deviate from the high-fidelity ideal, even though they may involve some synergetic components.

BTW, I strongly preferred the (really «hard-to-drive») Susvara driven by the DAVE to the configuration with the HiFiMan EF1000 in the chain – a high-end amp specifically designed for it.

 

[Hooster]

It's hard to tell which is the worse evil: the adapter or the unnecessary cable length. Personally I would chose the shorter cable and accept the adapter – based on my experience with HiFiMan's HE1000 cables which offer the same choice. Maybe there are some audiophile adapters around...

I am with you on this, but he should really just listen for himself. Telling him dogmatically that A will sound better than B is not really helpful. He has both those options easily available to him so he should simply compare and see if they sound any different to him.

 

[Scrum92]

I am with you on this, but he should really just listen for himself. Telling him dogmatically that A will sound better than B is not really helpful. He has both those options easily available to him so he should simply compare and see if they sound any different to him.

I've just settled with using the 1.2mm cable with the 3.5mm jack, no adapter. I can't understand why the two would sound any different, just the the 6.3mm is undoubtedly more durable but that really is not an issue for me. Also, it's not as if a 3.5mm jack is made of pasta! I think I'd have a tough job damaging it even if I tried.

Also, the 3.5mm jack sits more flush to the 3.5mm out than if I plug into 6.3mm with the adapter. So, it looks better, I guess!

 

[Slim1970]

Adding an Amp to the Hugo 2 - Good or Bad?
Here is my take about adding a good amp** to the Hugo 2, based on my own extensive experience. This post is for users who are in a dilemma about adding an amp or are interested in knowing the alternative side to 'why add an amp to the Chord DAC?' mentality.

My Preferences:
Its vital to know my preferences so that you can make a sound judgement and decide if my opinion carries weight or not. My tonal preference scale tips just a touch on the warm side of neutral. Actually, I like neutral as long as it is not bright or lean. In fact I can even handle some brightness, but what I can't handle is if the mid-range lacks sufficient body. I hate peaky treble that try to artificially boost details. I like a large soundstage and am sensitive to weirdness in soundstages. Or if the the soundstage is small, it better have depth and focus like the Utopia. I find the Hugo 2 just a touch on the bright and lean side of neutral.

Loss in Transparency - A Myth?:
The Loss in Transparency thing is a bit overblown. I understand that adding an amp adds some noise and distortion, which in turn can result in reduction in transparency. While it holds true on paper, in real world experience, there are some very good transparent amps that don't adversely impact the transparency. Meaning, the low level noise and distortion that might show up on measurements, don't translate to audible loss in transparency. What you might lose in some cases is the pitch black background. But the transparency of the instrument and vocal notes itself stay intact.

Benefits of Adding an Amp:
Regardless of a tube amp or a solid state amp, I have noticed some consistent improvements in the perceived sound quality when adding an amp.
- Improved Bass Impact - Here I am NOT referring to big or bloated bass, that would give a false sense of added bass power. But I am referring to strength and impact of the bass hits and how deep the bass can be felt. With most amps, the bass notes hit harder and puncher, while remaining tight and clean. In comparison, Hugo 2's bass impact can come across as soft
- Bigger Soundstage - A larger and expansive stage is something I have noticed even when adding a good $300-$500 amp to my Hugo 2. While the $300 amps were not able to improve the depth further, it did improve upon the width and height. And with some higher-up amps in the chain, I have heard all 3 dimensions improve considerably and also have a holographic quality
- Removal of Stress in the Presentation - With certain amps in the chain the presentation felt it was received of stress and sounded more open. While it may sound like it is related to the soundstage, it is not the same. This is something that is difficult to explain. Its like until you heard a good sounding system, you didn't know what good sound actually sounds like. Similarly, you won't notice the stress in Hugo 2's presentation until you experience it with an amp that removes the stress.
- Better Drive of High-Impedance Dynamic HPs and Hard-to-Drive Planar HPs - The high-impedance dynamic headphones (300 Ohm Sennheisers, ZMFs, Beyers) and hard-to-drive planar headphones (LCD4, Abyss, HE5,6, Susvara) are the type of the headphones that benefit the most when adding a good amp in the chain. These type of headphones scale well with more openness and a more authoritative presentation with the right amp in the chain. In fact, I would go to the extent of saying that these HPs definitely need an amp in the chain
- Getting Rid of Hiss on Super-Sensitive IEMs - In the Transparency section, I mentioned the slight loss of pitch black background when adding an amp. But it kinda works the other way round for some super sensitive IEMs. IEM like the Zeus, Andromeda, SE846 etc, have a hiss out of Hugo 2's HO. Adding an amp with low noise floor has helps get rid of hiss

Tube Amps and Hugo 2:
If you find the Hugo 2 to be lean and bright sounding, adding an appropriate tube amp may help fix this. But keep in mind that not all tube amps are made the same. In fact there are tube amps that sound lean. Also some tube amps take the warmth and thickness way too far into the warmpoo territory. A good tube amp adds wetness within an acceptable range, and also imparts some other benefits. Yes, a good tube amp can offer benefits other than just the wetness. For one, they help take the edge off the treble, while retaining the articulation, detail and airiness. They also have a certain holographic character that you can't find in even TOTL solid-state amps. They can impart some body and dimension to the notes that improve the sense of realism.

Disadvantages of Amps and When Amps May Not be Worth It:
Of course I have to be fair and mention the disadvantages of adding an amp to the chain
- With some amps and depending on the headphone, you may lose that pitch black background of the Hugo 2
- The realm of amplifiers is a rabbit hole of its own and a money drainer. With the interconnects, power cables, clean power supplies and vacuum tubes and what not, it is easy to spend a fortune before you realise you have gone far down the hole
- Amps work with the power supply provided from the power socket, and the power sockets at home are not exactly built with audiophiles in mind as they can be quite noisy. So even some amps with low noise floor can pick up noise from noisy power sockets
- An amp you like might have only a 4-Pin XLR heapdhone socket, which means investing in additional cables
- If you are constantly on the move, investing in an amp may not be totally worth it
- Also, if your headphone is a easy-to-drive planar or dynamic HP, the benefit of adding the amp may not be worth it


** - I can't stress enough on the word 'good' as my post assumes that any reference to an amp, automatically means a good amp. While the term good is subjective and vague, for the sake of this post, here is my definition. A good amp is one that objectively measures well (low noise, low distortion, high slew rate with respect respect to its output power) or is agreed upon by a crowd of experienced people subjectively that the amp sounds good or both.

I love my Hugo 2 and think it works fantastically as DAC to some of the better amps out there. I use mine as a DAC for my Pro iCan and I love the pairing. I have power, detail, dynamics and to my ears very little lose of transparency. Like you I prefer a sound on the warmer sound of neutral woithout having to sacrifice any of the details or clarity. The Pro iCan and Hugo 2 give me just that with the ability to drive demanding cans as well.

 

[betula]

Adding an Amp to the Hugo 2 - Good or Bad?
Here is my take about adding a good amp** to the Hugo 2, based on my own extensive experience. This post is for users who are in a dilemma about adding an amp or are interested in knowing the alternative side to 'why add an amp to the Chord DAC?' mentality.

My Preferences:
Its vital to know my preferences so that you can make a sound judgement and decide if my opinion carries weight or not. My tonal preference scale tips just a touch on the warm side of neutral. Actually, I like neutral as long as it is not bright or lean. In fact I can even handle some brightness, but what I can't handle is if the mid-range lacks sufficient body. I hate peaky treble that try to artificially boost details. I like a large soundstage and am sensitive to weirdness in soundstages. Or if the the soundstage is small, it better have depth and focus like the Utopia. I find the Hugo 2 just a touch on the bright and lean side of neutral.

Loss in Transparency - A Myth?:
The Loss in Transparency thing is a bit overblown. I understand that adding an amp adds some noise and distortion, which in turn can result in reduction in transparency. While it holds true on paper, in real world experience, there are some very good transparent amps that don't adversely impact the transparency. Meaning, the low level noise and distortion that might show up on measurements, don't translate to audible loss in transparency. What you might lose in some cases is the pitch black background. But the transparency of the instrument and vocal notes itself stay intact.

Benefits of Adding an Amp:
Regardless of a tube amp or a solid state amp, I have noticed some consistent improvements in the perceived sound quality when adding an amp.
- Improved Bass Impact - Here I am NOT referring to big or bloated bass, that would give a false sense of added bass power. But I am referring to strength and impact of the bass hits and how deep the bass can be felt. With most amps, the bass notes hit harder and puncher, while remaining tight and clean. In comparison, Hugo 2's bass impact can come across as soft
- Bigger Soundstage - A larger and expansive stage is something I have noticed even when adding a good $300-$500 amp to my Hugo 2. While the $300 amps were not able to improve the depth further, it did improve upon the width and height. And with some higher-up amps in the chain, I have heard all 3 dimensions improve considerably and also have a holographic quality
- Removal of Stress in the Presentation - With certain amps in the chain the presentation felt it was received of stress and sounded more open. While it may sound like it is related to the soundstage, it is not the same. This is something that is difficult to explain. Its like until you heard a good sounding system, you didn't know what good sound actually sounds like. Similarly, you won't notice the stress in Hugo 2's presentation until you experience it with an amp that removes the stress.
- Better Drive of High-Impedance Dynamic HPs and Hard-to-Drive Planar HPs - The high-impedance dynamic headphones (300 Ohm Sennheisers, ZMFs, Beyers) and hard-to-drive planar headphones (LCD4, Abyss, HE5,6, Susvara) are the type of the headphones that benefit the most when adding a good amp in the chain. These type of headphones scale well with more openness and a more authoritative presentation with the right amp in the chain. In fact, I would go to the extent of saying that these HPs definitely need an amp in the chain
- Getting Rid of Hiss on Super-Sensitive IEMs - In the Transparency section, I mentioned the slight loss of pitch black background when adding an amp. But it kinda works the other way round for some super sensitive IEMs. IEM like the Zeus, Andromeda, SE846 etc, have a hiss out of Hugo 2's HO. Adding an amp with low noise floor has helps get rid of hiss

Tube Amps and Hugo 2:
If you find the Hugo 2 to be lean and bright sounding, adding an appropriate tube amp may help fix this. But keep in mind that not all tube amps are made the same. In fact there are tube amps that sound lean. Also some tube amps take the warmth and thickness way too far into the warmpoo territory. A good tube amp adds wetness within an acceptable range, and also imparts some other benefits. Yes, a good tube amp can offer benefits other than just the wetness. For one, they help take the edge off the treble, while retaining the articulation, detail and airiness. They also have a certain holographic character that you can't find in even TOTL solid-state amps. They can impart some body and dimension to the notes that improve the sense of realism.

Disadvantages of Amps and When Amps May Not be Worth It:
Of course I have to be fair and mention the disadvantages of adding an amp to the chain
- With some amps and depending on the headphone, you may lose that pitch black background of the Hugo 2
- The realm of amplifiers is a rabbit hole of its own and a money drainer. With the interconnects, power cables, clean power supplies and vacuum tubes and what not, it is easy to spend a fortune before you realise you have gone far down the hole
- Amps work with the power supply provided from the power socket, and the power sockets at home are not exactly built with audiophiles in mind as they can be quite noisy. So even some amps with low noise floor can pick up noise from noisy power sockets
- An amp you like might have only a 4-Pin XLR heapdhone socket, which means investing in additional cables
- If you are constantly on the move, investing in an amp may not be totally worth it
- Also, if your headphone is a easy-to-drive planar or dynamic HP, the benefit of adding the amp may not be worth it


** - I can't stress enough on the word 'good' as my post assumes that any reference to an amp, automatically means a good amp. While the term good is subjective and vague, for the sake of this post, here is my definition. A good amp is one that objectively measures well (low noise, low distortion, high slew rate with respect respect to its output power) or is agreed upon by a crowd of experienced people subjectively that the amp sounds good or both.

It's hard to tell which is the worse evil: the adapter or the unnecessary cable length. Personally I would chose the shorter cable and accept the adapter – based on my experience with HiFiMan's HE1000 cables which offer the same choice. Maybe there are some audiophile adapters around...



I absolutely respect your approach. From my own perspective it just seems a bit absurd, though, given that there is a much simpler, cheaper, more logical and more constructive method of achieving your goals in terms of tonal-balance corrections: equalizing. This if we ignore the wish for explicit euphonic colorations from respective harmonic-distortion patterns, which may very well enable an effective masking of other shortcomings in the chain, particularly the notoriously uneven amplitude responses of sound transducers.

Although I haven't auditioned every headphone amp on the planet, I can say that I haven't met one that offered better bass «control» (let's better speak of «accuracy») than the direct connection with one of the Chord DAC/amps – from Hugo to DAVE –, even with the so-called hard-to-drive HD 800 and HE1000. And when it comes to «punch», there's always Rob's «phat» coming to mind, standing for an overblown bass that pretends to be super-controlled and -dynamic. Actually it's easy to fall for this trick. As easy as increasing the low-frequency area to get a comparable effect, just with better accuracy.

I did a lot of direct-drive experiments in the past – long before the Hugo era –, which let me discover how overrated (headphone) amps are: All add a massive amount of coloration and no benefit in terms of dynamics or other audiophile attributes apart from warmth and forgivingness. This in comparison with the (low-impedance!) line outs of DACs. So from my personal view and my personal sonic ideals the merits of amps are overblown – and the harm they do to the signal (transparency!) is underrated.

I think both of these approaches are right with a lot of truth in both posts. Perhaps they are right together?

I think some sound qualities come from the DAC, some may come from the amp. The amp can only work with the signal it receives from the DAC. Therefore JaZZ is right saying no amp will improve bass control or dynamics or transient response. The amp can only keep or shadow these qualities to different extent.

EagleWings however is right saying an amp can improve bass body and impact, increase soundstage, open up the sound and make it more airy. This is not necessarily just coloration, there is something more going on here.

Folks say Mojo can drive anything, then they say Hugo2 can drive anything. Why does Hugo2 have a much better and more firm low-end extension and control then? Was that already not perfect and transparent with Mojo? (My question is a bit naive on purpose.)

My Mojo drove the LCD2C to a relatively satisfying level, but when I connected Mojo to the CMA600i the difference was night and day. Thicker, better texture, bass and treble filled up. This experience made me buy the 2Qute and then the Qutest (arriving today). Why does 2Qute and Qutest exist then if you have to pair them with an amp? Does that not degrade the ultra transparent Chord sound which we all love?

I guess the amp you pair these DACs with, matters a lot too. The 600i is a relatively neutral and very balanced amp. Current amplification gives the sound a very smooth and liquid nature. I find the pairing great with Chord DACs.

I think the conclusion a few posts above that it ultimately comes down to personal preference is correct. What are you looking for in your listening experience? Ultimate transparency and reality or a bit of ease and creamy goodness to your ears? I can't see any of these approaches to be superior/inferior to the other. Are we chasing reality or want to have some fun? Some will prefer this, some will prefer that. Perhaps one day I'd prefer Hugo2 only, another day I'd prefer it with an external amp.

Another thought. I might actually be wrong with this theory and the ultimate goal where our sonic taste improves is pure transparency. We all know our sonic taste can improve just like our taste buds on the tongue. Reviewers of fine dining restaurants most likely have more developed tasting abilities than the average restaurant goer. The same way perhaps if someone has been in this hobby for many years and plays on the level or Chord DACs eventually will value transparency higher than anything. I don't know. (If I could afford I would buy TT2 only instead of playing with DACs and amps.)

I am not an expert in any ways, just find the topic interesting.

 

[x RELIC x]

way too far into the warmpoo territory.

This should be a custom line under your avatar, lol! I actually did laugh out loud!

A well written and very considerate post of different perspectives. While I may disagree with some of your points, and that’s ok, one thing I would like to respond with is that the distortion usually discussed (but often misunderstood) isn’t heard as distortion in most cases unless we are talking about really really bad amps, which I don’t think many people are in these threads. Distortion (variance from the input) is a way to tune an amp, on purpose or unintentionally. Distortions can add a sense of space, they can add brightness, and they can certainly add warmth. If that’s what one wants then that’s great, but it goes against what the designer of the Hugo2 is after.

What I find fascinating is that Mojo sounds different compared to the Hugo2 which sounds slightly different than the DAVE (direct experience), which reportedly sounds different to a HugoTT 2, which sounds different to Qutest (no direct experience). Rob has the same goal (within limits) with all his designs but has different implementations due to design cost / form factor / etc. and while they all measure very well they all sound slightly different from one another. It just goes to show that every little thing in the design makes a difference, and there are a lot of extra elements in traditional amps to change the sound of the source.

One thing I’ve brought up before is that I find Rob’s designs to really accentuate the characteristics of the transducer, so a slightly bright headphone from some other gear could be really bright on Rob’s / Chord’s gear, while a warm and soft headphone could sound really soft. Same goes for ‘loose’ or ‘fast’ transducers, or clean vs distorted where it becomes so much easier, to me, to hear the difference played from Rob’s designs. It becomes less of a matter of listening to the source gear synergy and more a matter of hearing the headphone’s characteristics. Personally, I wonder if this is one of many contributing factors why many prefer adding yet another amplification stage to their audio chain... it may simply ‘hide’ or compliment some characteristics of the transducer... and there’s nothing wrong with that as long as one enjoys their music. Just a thought I’ve been mulling over again recently, as in, I’d choose a headphone that will not irritate me enough to need to compensate for by adding even more gear. Then again, this is Head Fi and half the fun is trying different things.

Of course YMMV, my opinion, yadda yadda.

 

[Chester Rockwell]

A great post @x RELIC x which I agree with completely. Another thought I have been having recently (slightly related I guess) is how ones brain adapts over time. I find my brain adapts over a matter of weeks and eventually I am hearing things on a new system, the way I did on a previous system, even if they sound completely different. It’s like your brain always makes adjustments in your perception, until it settles where it wants you to be.

Eventually setups all end up sounding the same to me, unless directly comparing them, or one of the systems is so awful, that even your brain can’t do anything with it!

It would be very interesting to understand how large a role our brains play in this game. From personal experience, I expect it’s much greater than anyone would have thought.

Reading that back, it’s not really related at all.... Interesting though, nonetheless.

 

[GreenBow]

Many thanks for your clarification and observations. With respect to Qutest owners I would like to add that they can in fact use the Qtest to drive headphones. This can be achieved by using the variable output of the Qutest and attaching an adapter as shown below to the RCA outputs of the Qutest. It is unlikely that any external headphone amp added to the Qutest will sound as transparent as that and if it does it is still a waste of money and space, unless of course as you mentioned you have cans that are extremely hard to drive. (That was all wrong, see below)



Scratch all the above. I just read the Qutest manual and apparently the line out level is not variable to the extent that it can be used to drive headphones. So it will need some kind of external volume control to drive headphones and power amplifiers for that matter. This is in my opinion a dumb choice by Chord and handicaps the Qutest for no good reason. (They are hardly going to be saving much if any money by omitting a properly variable output, even the Mojo has that.)

https://chordelectronics.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Qutest-Manual.pdf

You might be able to use that cable and the Qutest, if you can control the output volume of the player.

In JRiver, you can later output volume, but it might mean losing bit-perfect; not sure.

 

[Peter Hyatt]

This should be a custom line under your avatar, lol! I actually did laugh out loud!

A well written and very considerate post of different perspectives. While I may disagree with some of your points, and that’s ok, one thing I would like to respond with is that the distortion usually discussed (but often misunderstood) isn’t heard as distortion in most cases unless we are talking about really really bad amps, which I don’t think many people are in these threads. Distortion (variance from the input) is a way to tune an amp, on purpose or unintentionally. Distortions can add a sense of space, they can add brightness, and they can certainly add warmth. If that’s what one wants then that’s great, but it goes against what the designer of the Hugo2 is after.

What I find fascinating is that Mojo sounds different compared to the Hugo2 which sounds slightly different than the DAVE (direct experience), which reportedly sounds different to a HugoTT 2, which sounds different to Qutest (no direct experience). Rob has the same goal (within limits) with all his designs but has different implementations due to design cost / form factor / etc. and while they all measure very well they all sound slightly different from one another. It just goes to show that every little thing in the design makes a difference, and there are a lot of extra elements in traditional amps to change the sound of the source.

One thing I’ve brought up before is that I find Rob’s designs to really accentuate the characteristics of the transducer, so a slightly bright headphone from some other gear could be really bright on Rob’s / Chord’s gear, while a warm and soft headphone could sound really soft. Same goes for ‘loose’ or ‘fast’ transducers, or clean vs distorted where it becomes so much easier, to me, to hear the difference played from Rob’s designs. It becomes less of a matter of listening to the source gear synergy and more a matter of hearing the headphone’s characteristics. Personally, I wonder if this is one of many contributing factors why many prefer adding yet another amplification stage to their audio chain... it may simply ‘hide’ or compliment some characteristics of the transducer... and there’s nothing wrong with that as long as one enjoys their music. Just a thought I’ve been mulling over again recently, as in, I’d choose a headphone that will not irritate me enough to need to compensate for by adding even more gear. Then again, this is Head Fi and half the fun is trying different things.

Of course YMMV, my opinion, yadda yadda.

I agree with everything you said except yada yada. You’re hiding something sinister.

 

[Peter Hyatt]

1am here. Late night listening session.

4am here and I had the internet radio “Classic FM” on my iPhone with a cheeky but surprisingly soothing DJ voice telling me all was well in the world.

Next up is to hear the start & finish of individual piano notes via green filter.

Qobuz said I’ll ike Anna Fedorova.

They wouldn’t lie to me.