[GuiltyRocker]

Those are the graphs, you provided, I just resized them for easy comparison.
Forget about my previous posts for one minute, please.
The two graphs that YOU quoted, are from DAVE, done at 24/192 USB in XLR out.
They show two different noise patterns, do you agree?
All I am saying is that graphs obtained by different people on different days, may have other variables applied, that would make them different.
You can not claim, this new such a DAC has this graph, look!, look!, so it is better.
It is not as simple as that.
Remember this from Hugo2's review? , compare it to the edit Amir made on the same review a few weeks later.


Just wait till Amir sees that statement I just made, and tell me off on ASR!
God help me.

It's crazy stuff, wow.

 

[flyte3333]

They show two different noise patterns, do you agree?

Of course they are slightly different - I never said they are identical?

Both show higher noise/distortion in bass frequencies - that's my point.

Nobody is saying numbers are equivalent?

You seem to be thinking I said something different, but hopefully I cleared that up?

The plot I showed in post Post #22,466 of 22,467 shows a non-Chord DAC with much much better multitone peformance than Dave, Hugo2, Mojo2

Note Hugo TT2 shows excellent multitone performance.

 

[thePhones]

ferrites

… b b but you need them, trust me

 

[Kentajalli]

Of course they are slightly different - I never said they are identical?

Both show higher noise/distortion in bass frequencies - that's my point.

Nobody is saying numbers are equivalent?

You seem to be thinking I said something different, but hopefully I cleared that up?

The plot I showed in post Post #22,466 of 22,467 shows a non-Chord DAC with much much better multitone peformance than Dave, Hugo2, Mojo2

Note Hugo TT2 shows excellent multitone performance.

Graphs are unreliable.
That was my point.

 

[flyte3333]

Graphs are unreliable.
That was my point.

Yes, we cannot rely on graphs

 

[AnalogEuphoria]

Yes, we cannot rely on graphs

We can not rely on our ears either, this whole thing is very stressful when all it should be is about enjoying music.

 

[Icenine2]

You know when you run into someone you've not seen forever/awhile and they just monologue on and on...........and finally they ask: "well, after so long you don't have much to say.......................?" Someone let me know when this all ends.........

 

[GuiltyRocker]

True

 

[GuiltyRocker]

You know when you run into someone you've not seen forever/awhile and they just monologue on and on...........and finally they ask: "well, after so long you don't have much to say.......................?" Someone let me know when this all ends.........

Ahahahahahhahahahaha

 

[GryphonGuy]

People are obsessed with taking down the DAVE, ...

It's called the tall poppy syndrome. Some people cannot handle having one poppy in the field taller than the rest so they have to cut it down or even out. Then they feel order has returned.

I don't give a rat's a... about the measurements. My DAVE is satisfying, mesmerizing and awe inspiring to listen to. Hats off to the designer and the company willing to back its development. After all these years it's still head and shoulders above the competition (the tall poppy) and the focus of the detractors with their graphs trying to create a novel to cut it down. Knock your socks off! It won't change the sound or exemplary ownership experience of my DAVE one bit.

Regards
GG

 

[GuiltyRocker]

It's called the tall poppy syndrome. Some people cannot handle having one poppy in the field taller than the rest so they have to cut it down or even out. Then they feel order has returned.

I don't give a rat's a... about the measurements. My DAVE is satisfying, mesmerizing and awe inspiring to listen to. Hats off to the designer and the company willing to back its development. After all these years it's still head and shoulders above the competition (the tall poppy) and the focus of the detractors with their graphs trying to create a novel to cut it down. Knock your socks off! It won't change the sound or exemplary ownership experience of my DAVE one bit.

Regards
GG

That's a nice way to put it.

 

[Triode User]

.

These plots are bettered by many DACs today (APx555 measurements)

But the trouble is that those ‘many’ DACs simply do not sound as good as Dave. The ability to produce the plots is perhaps more akin to a party trick which has been mastered by the designers who wish to exploit the reliance by some on a simplistic Sinad league table.

We can not rely on our ears either, this whole thing is very stressful when all it should be is about enjoying music.

But when the graphs are a distant memory and you are sat down at home with your new dac to listen to a few albums it is only your ears which you actually can rely on to tell you if you are enjoying the music. Or do you keep having to rummage through a few graphs to reassure you that you have bought the ‘right’ dac?

Someone let me know when this all ends.........

This thread will be a better place when the graphs brigade have got bored and moved on.

 

[Malcyg]

I posted this elsewhere, but I know that ‘noise’ is something that a lot of us wrestle with so am re-posting here as well in case it is of any value to any Dave owners.

I can fully understand why people don’t believe in cables, especially power cables. I too used to think the notion of a big, chunky and expensive power cable was ridiculous. What I don’t understand is why people who think that way feel at liberty to constantly berate those who do value cables and to constantly point out the folly of their belief. It seems to me akin to an atheist standing outside a Church, Mosque or Temple and shouting at the people who go in, telling them that they are stupid and wrong in their beliefs. And doing it every single day. Why bother? And why does it bother you so much? Leave them alone and get a life.

I don’t believe anybody seriously sets out intent on spending money on power cables, certainly I was very resistant to the idea for a long while. Still am to a degree, especially at the prices of the really exotic stuff. It just seemed such a waste of money that could be better spent elsewhere.

In building and perfecting my own speaker and headphone system over the last 12 years or so, I constantly wrestled with things that I used to call ‘noise’. I had deduced that that there were different sources of this ‘noise‘ in my system and that electrical and network supply were a big factor, but also that different components played their own part in this as well - I just didn’t have the technical capability of being able to clearly define it so I lumped it all together as ‘noise’ and blindly groped around trying to resolve and improve things. I did make very good progress eventually, but a better technical understanding would have maybe made the job a lot easier and less frustrating.

When reading about power cables as well as other ‘noise’ solutions like grounding and isolation, I found way to much marketing speak and very little proper technical descriptions and I think that this is a factor that feeds the inclination to dismiss such things as snake oil. Certainly, when reviewers start quoting all the flowery audiophile terms, I switch off pretty quickly.

Anyway, one day I came across this article which I found very interesting. It highlighted all the things that I knew to be true from years of experience and experimenting and described them in a way that I could understand and that, to me, made complete sense. I’m posting it here not to promote the company that wrote the information, but just because I found it very helpful myself and hope that others may find it of some benefit too. If you think the article is ridiculous, then that’s fine too but don’t bash me for it!

https://www.gcaudio.com/tips-tricks/why-power-cables-make-a-difference/

 

[Kentajalli]

But when the graphs are a distant memory and you are sat down at home with your new dac to listen to a few albums it is only your ears which you actually can rely on to tell you if you are enjoying the music. Or do you keep having to rummage through a few graphs to reassure you that you have bought the ‘right’ dac?

+1

 

[Hubert H]

I do use the Genelec volume control which is via the GLM. That is not dependent on digital input. I use the DAVE in DAC mode and feed line out to the Genelecs. My thinking is that I get the sound I like from the DAVE so putting that analogue in to the speakers ensures the sound I get at my ears, after the GLM has done it’s part, is still the sound I like. The whole point of the Genelec speakers with GLM is to get as close to perfect transparency at your ears as possible. In other words they transfer the DAVE sound exactly as the DAVE does with headphones.

Understood but my point was that the Genelecs always digitise an analogue input using the built in ADC, therefore it’s always going to be worse than a digital signal in. They have to digitise in order to apply the volume and DSP.

It might just be worth trying digital in and comparing.

One issue I have with the Genelecs is that one ideally needs a digital interface with multiple and various inputs and possibly a volume control.