CHORD ELECTRONICS DAVE
Aug 29, 2022 at 2:29 PM Post #22,306 of 25,857
I got worried when he kept mentioning 100k in the context of the Ultimata Reference dac!
Well this forum has shown enough people are buying Chord's marketing about them being better than everyone else. People are also willing to spend 4-5x Dave's cost to "improve it", so why wouldn't they charge upwards of 50k? The big question is, will it also have a 15$ power supply? or will Chord finally tacitly admit their shortcomings.
Hell, can't wait to see the Ultima M-scaler's price. Might even be a market for Ultima Wave cables soon :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye: .
 
Aug 29, 2022 at 3:32 PM Post #22,307 of 25,857
Well this forum has shown enough people are buying Chord's marketing about them being better than everyone else. People are also willing to spend 4-5x Dave's cost to "improve it", so why wouldn't they charge upwards of 50k? The big question is, will it also have a 15$ power supply? or will Chord finally tacitly admit their shortcomings.
Hell, can't wait to see the Ultima M-scaler's price. Might even be a market for Ultima Wave cables soon :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye: .
Hahahahahahahahahaha
 
Aug 29, 2022 at 10:52 PM Post #22,309 of 25,857
What's amazing is what Rob has said for years, if you chop off the transients it gets very hard to tell what the instrument is, Rob has said that over and over.

The importance of transients from perception/psychoacoustics POV has been in the text books for many decades. This isn't new - my small contribution is the realisation that interpolation filters muck up the timing of transients dynamically (that is transients sometimes being early sometimes being late) and that the ear/brain is hugely sensitive to these errors.

Any new info on the choral Mscaler? Still coming out this year?

No news on the delivery of the next prototypes. Problems getting parts, and the subcontractor delays in having staff to program and run the pick and place machines. Sadly it won't be this year.

I got worried when he kept mentioning 100k in the context of the Ultima Reference dac!

That wasn't in the context of the Ultima DAC, but in the pricing of other DACs. I don't know what the retail price will be - the design BOM is just performance driven, not on parts cost.

Luckily the R&D that goes into many “ultimate” projects filter down into more “affordable” gear ?

Absolutely. I can't forget things, not after all the time and effort that's gone into discovering things that turn out to be subjectively important.

Having said that, some of the things I have discovered require huge amounts of gates to implement - that means bigger FPGAs, which in turn will increase retail price.

Check this video out, talks about time domain.

@Rob Watts, I think this video talks about many of the things you say.



Great video - he talks about the importance of timing and transients for the perception of timbre. Of course, transients are also vital for sound-staging (left to right using the interaural delays) and perception of bass pitch, as the brain infers bass from transients, due to the limited number of hairs in the cochlea for bass pitch.

He talks about fixed delays, with sensitivity of transient timing to uS. But the problem we have with interpolation filters are the delays are program dependent and constantly changing - transients being either to early or too late. If it was just a uS problem, you would not be able to hear much of a difference from 100k taps WTA to 1M taps. My own listening tests suggests that any transient timing error, no matter how small, if it's a program dependent varying error, will be very much more audible - indeed any error, no matter how small, seems audible.

I have always thought that the audibility of transient timing errors was independent of age, and it's good to see that view supported too. Even with HF hearing loss, you still need perfect transient timing reconstruction to give the illusion of music sounding real.
 
Aug 29, 2022 at 11:35 PM Post #22,310 of 25,857
Also from that video of the Cochlea receiving low frequencies slightly behind the high frequencies is interesting,
As well as the absolute accuracy of smaller signals involved, a slight shift in arrival time between low and high frequencies could be how the auditory system perceives distance or depth ?
 
Aug 30, 2022 at 12:21 PM Post #22,311 of 25,857
I am getting ready to list my Chord DAVE and Sean Jacobs ARC6 DC4 power supply as a turn-key system. Both units are black and in pristine condition. Handled once for installation and will be handled a second time for the sale.

The fully maxed out ARC6 DC4 is configured with the Mundorf silver/gold wire upgrade. These are rarely found on the used market, and Sean Jacobs does not discount them. Given the 3 to 4 months burn-in time on the ARC6 DC4 and the nearly 2 months lead time on a new unit, purchasing this system is definitely beneficial.

If anyone is interested please send a PM.

Gerry
 
Aug 30, 2022 at 12:45 PM Post #22,312 of 25,857
Can you dumb this down some more? I have a router downstairs and use a power line adapter to get Ethernet in my room. What would you recommend to clean up the Ethernet? Does it make a difference?

Can you find a way of making a direct connection and get rid of the power line? Or even use Wifi instead?

Years back when I first started playing music files seriously through my main system, I used power line to get around physical difficulties of connecting Ethernet. It took me a lot of time and frustration - not to say expense - until I discovered that you will never get a good sound using power line. Harsh, but true ime. I know it’s been several years now, but I doubt that very much has changed.
 
Aug 30, 2022 at 12:47 PM Post #22,313 of 25,857
Can you find a way of making a direct connection and get rid of the power line? Or even use Wifi instead?

Years back when I first started playing music files seriously through my main system, I used power line to get around physical difficulties of connecting Ethernet. It took me a lot of time and frustration - not to say expense - until I discovered that you will never get a good sound using power line. Harsh, but true ime. I know it’s been several years now, but I doubt that very much has changed.
As soon as I buy a home I will work on getting Ethernet wired up and will ask the clan for advice :)
 
Aug 30, 2022 at 2:27 PM Post #22,316 of 25,857
For a long while, I was really interested in hearing the digital power amps designed for Dave. I waited quite a while for them, but I gave up in the end and moved on.

Are they a thing yet and, if so, has anyone heard them? It was expected to be like a direct speaker connection to Dave - like some people already do with sensitive speakers, but allowing for use with a much wider range of conventional speakers. I’m referring to this from 1/11/2015 which seemed like a potential game changer to me.

Dave has 705/768 kHz DX digital outputs to go with my digital power amps. These are non-switching, but still retain the analogue simplicity of two resistors and 2 capacitors plus a single global feedback path. But power output will be from 20W to at least 200W. I just finished testing the DX outputs today.

The first DX power amp will be available next year and will initially be 20W RMS with a 70W mono-block option.

Rob
 
Aug 30, 2022 at 3:27 PM Post #22,317 of 25,857
For a long while, I was really interested in hearing the digital power amps designed for Dave. I waited quite a while for them, but I gave up in the end and moved on.

Are they a thing yet and, if so, has anyone heard them? It was expected to be like a direct speaker connection to Dave - like some people already do with sensitive speakers, but allowing for use with a much wider range of conventional speakers. I’m referring to this from 1/11/2015 which seemed like a potential game changer to me.
Yes during that period shortly after DAVE launched @Rob Watts was optimistic that the digital amps were only a year away. These sort of posts were then followed by posts from @Mojo ideas indicating that these digital amps were several years away, and would not be delivered in the short-term.
Ultimately @Mojo ideas is the customer for Rob, so he decides the product development budget available to Rob.

Several years later and post-covid individuals/buyers expect a bit more transparency, so in good faith it would be good for @Mojo ideas to provide a few clues about the future.
@Mojo ideas I believe that transparency is good for Chord, but if you disagree you can always PM me, and ask me to ****. :wink: Don't worry i won't be offended. :slight_smile:
 
Aug 30, 2022 at 4:17 PM Post #22,318 of 25,857
For a long while, I was really interested in hearing the digital power amps designed for Dave. I waited quite a while for them, but I gave up in the end and moved on.

Are they a thing yet and, if so, has anyone heard them? It was expected to be like a direct speaker connection to Dave - like some people already do with sensitive speakers, but allowing for use with a much wider range of conventional speakers. I’m referring to this from 1/11/2015 which seemed like a potential game changer to me.
I run my DAVE directly into Genelec 8331A/7360A so pretty much exactly what you mention. Using GLM and near field listening at about 1.5 m it is ridiculously good. If the D’s do exist it would be a great option.
 
Aug 31, 2022 at 4:17 AM Post #22,319 of 25,857
Yes during that period shortly after DAVE launched @Rob Watts was optimistic that the digital amps were only a year away. These sort of posts were then followed by posts from @Mojo ideas indicating that these digital amps were several years away, and would not be delivered in the short-term.
Ultimately @Mojo ideas is the customer for Rob, so he decides the product development budget available to Rob.

Several years later and post-covid individuals/buyers expect a bit more transparency, so in good faith it would be good for @Mojo ideas to provide a few clues about the future.
@Mojo ideas I believe that transparency is good for Chord, but if you disagree you can always PM me, and ask me to ****. :wink: Don't worry i won't be offended. :slight_smile:

Thanks for clarifying, I must have missed that. I am only an occasional visitor and there are too many pages to read through everything.

It came to my attention because it is on a page that I have set as a shortcut to the Headfi website. I set the link years ago because of a wealth of useful information posted at the time by Roy (Romaz). I’ll copy it here for any newer Dave owners who haven’t gone back in time through the full thread. The post in question is the last one on the page.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chord-electronics-dave.766517/page-94
 
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