[BassicScience]

And the other thing which is rarely discussed is the software used for playback. For many of us, experience has shown that sound quality is often not the same for different digital player (and server) software.

Agreed that there are many variables in play that affect sound quality. My post was simply to point out that a new digital format cannot be a magic bullet to reducing those variables. If @Ards doesn't want to attend to a lot of details, maybe buy something like a Tambaqui and connect an Ethernet cable and a couple of interconnects to an amp to it. I can assure you he'll be getting well beyond "decent" sound and hearing everything that's on the CD, stream, etc.

If people choose to experiment with cables, power supplies, etc., that again has zero to do with digital format.

 

[burbster]

There’s nothing fundamentally wrong with current digital formats (note plural), and there's also no such thing as a format immune "to any and all issues". Getting "decent" sound from current digital formats is reasonably trivial. What's being discussed (somewhat hyperbolically) here is pushing the state of the art.

EOM.

I agree there is nothing broken With the format itself, in fact my recent experience is indicating that even redbook cd is capable of incredible things, so the analogue to digital process works very well! The issue lies in the digital to analogue conversion. It appears it is very difficult and currently very expensive to do this aspect well, and like triode user states, even the way playback software is coded effects the sound, i Don’t think the industry explicitly lied when they marketed Digital audio, ’perfect sound for ever’ they just failed to mention how bloody difficult it would be to once again extract that perfect Sound!

 

[Triode User]

Agreed that there are many variables in play that affect sound quality. My post was simply to point out that a new digital format cannot be a magic bullet to reducing those variables. If @Ards doesn't want to attend to a lot of details, maybe buy something like a Tambaqui and connect an Ethernet cable and a couple of interconnects to an amp to it. I can assure you he'll be getting well beyond "decent" sound and hearing everything that's on the CD, stream, etc.

If people choose to experiment with cables, power supplies, etc., that again has zero to do with digital format.

But digital format can have an influence on what comes out of the other end of the DAC. It is also not always a given that one can hear everything that is on the CD or stream even with a DAC that is 'well beyond decent sound'. I listened to one such dac recently and the stroked cymbals I knew to be there were masked by other sounds coming from the DAC output.

I see that you do not have a Dave and perhaps some of the wonderful sounds we hear are not therefore available to you. Perhaps your participation in the Dave thread is because you are considering a Dave?

Seriously though, it would be interesting to compare one of our Daves to your EMM Labs DA2 V2. I am currently at a very happy place with my Dave and it is difficult to imagine anything better hence wondering about your DA2.

 

[BassicScience]

I agree there is nothing broken With the format itself, in fact my recent experience is indicating that even redbook cd is capable of incredible things, so the analogue to digital process works very well! The issue lies in the digital to analogue conversion. It appears it is very difficult and currently very expensive to do this aspect well, and like triode user states, even the way playback software is coded effects the sound, i Don’t think the industry explicitly lied when they marketed Digital audio, ’perfect sound for ever’ they just failed to mention how bloody difficult it would be to once again extract that perfect Sound!

I don't really want to get too far OT here, but will simply say that a novice reading Head-Fi could certainly get the impression that achieving superb digital playback is very complicated and costly, but in 2021 I don't believe that to be true on either count. While a consumer must educate himself (herself) to make informed choices, the engineers behind the products have already done the heavy lifting. As a child of the analog era, I have to laugh when people complain about the (relative) challenges of digital audio!

 

[BassicScience]

But digital format can have an influence on what comes out of the other end of the DAC. It is also not always a given that one can hear everything that is on the CD or stream even with a DAC that is 'well beyond decent sound'. I listened to one such dac recently and the stroked cymbals I knew to be there were masked by other sounds coming from the DAC output.

I see that you do not have a Dave and perhaps some of the wonderful sounds we hear are not therefore available to you. Perhaps your participation in the Dave thread is because you are considering a Dave?

Seriously though, it would be interesting to compare one of our Daves to your EMM Labs DA2 V2. I am currently at a very happy place with my Dave and it is difficult to imagine anything better hence wondering about your DA2.

No, I'm not considering purchasing a DAVE. I've heard it on several occasions and while it's a very fine DAC, I never found it to be sui generis. If you do, there's no real point in arguing subjective impressions. I was simply reading the thread and saw a post (tangentially related to DAVE) that I felt needed a response. If that violates some protocol here, please accept my apology.

 

[Ards]

And the other thing which is rarely discussed is the software used for playback. For many of us, experience has shown that sound quality is often not the same for different digital player (and server) software.

It's this sort of experience that convinces me that digital audio, as we experience it, is fundamentally "broken". So many things we need to attend to in order to get decent from the format. Somebody needs to start over and design a digital format immune to any and all issues

 

[Triode User]

It's this sort of experience that convinces me that digital audio, as we experience it, is fundamentally "broken". So many things we need to attend to in order to get decent from the format. Somebody needs to start over and design a digital format immune to any and all issues

You can get decent sound already from the format. We are taking here about incremental improvements for those who search them out as opposed to fixing a ‘broken’ technology.

 

[iDesign]

It's this sort of experience that convinces me that digital audio, as we experience it, is fundamentally "broken". So many things we need to attend to in order to get decent from the format. Somebody needs to start over and design a digital format immune to any and all issues

It depends on your definition of digital audio. If you’re referring to streaming music from services like TIDAL or Qobuz, that is very much down a dirt road.

 

[801evan]

Hi,
Wanna share my findings on testing the Dave over a bit of a different setup:

Transport: phone
Chain, dual ipurifier, dual idefender plus, cosemi usb cable, src dx
Filter: 80x lt3045, dual line conditioner
Cables: all 20awg silver occ
Ranking:
1. Hi-res 192 wav Onkyo player
2. Mqa onkyo (no unfolding)
3. Hi-res 192 wav uapp
4. Mqa uapp (unfolding to 96khz)
5. PGGB 768,20bit,512m onkyo
6. 768 sinc mx lns15 onkyo

768 and 384 is 0dbfs as -3dbfs kills too much transparency.

For PGGB, 20 bit was better than 24 bit and I picked the best PGGB render over the top 5.

I may try 20 bit depth for HQplayer? But I'm not holding my breath it'll catch up. 768 is definite improvement over 384 but the vocals got mumbly. Maybe a transport thing since it's a phone buy that's the ranking for now.

I used HQplayer pro to render out oversampled files and stored to my phone to reduce the factor of a noisy PC and busy cpu processing.

Tomorrow I'll go back on my zen stream powered by custom o-core sparkos psu + dxpwr and do another shoot out with the top 2.

 

[VladYR]

Has anyone here try the Innuos Zen Mini MK3? I’ve got one loaned to me for around 2 weeks and so far the experience is somewhat underwhelming. It’s connected to my Linn Selekt through usb. Previously my source was a Netgear Nighthawk router with an ssd usb drive with high res files. For some reason this sounds better to me than the Zen. Kind of weird given that the router goes for a little over $200 and the Zen coats $1400.

 

[jlbrach]

I have the zenith 3 and think it is marvelous FWIIW

 

[Ciggavelli]

Has anyone here try the Innuos Zen Mini MK3? I’ve got one loaned to me for around 2 weeks and so far the experience is somewhat underwhelming. It’s connected to my Linn Selekt through usb. Previously my source was a Netgear Nighthawk router with an ssd usb drive with high res files. For some reason this sounds better to me than the Zen. Kind of weird given that the router goes for a little over $200 and the Zen coats $1400.

The PhoenixUSB is a necessarity with that I think. I had the MK3 and the Phoenix together, and it definitely sounded great. I had the Phoneix first, which made a big difference. Then I added the MK3 and it was a more subtle improvement.

 

[Sampajanna]

I have asked this before, but am hoping to get advice from those who are currently doing this or who have tried: My Dave is connected directly to my amps via XLR and I use it to control volume. I want to simultaneously go from the RCA to an active subwoofer. Someone told me this works. Any other advice? Warnings?
Thanks

 

[adrianm]

Has anyone here try the Innuos Zen Mini MK3? I’ve got one loaned to me for around 2 weeks and so far the experience is somewhat underwhelming. It’s connected to my Linn Selekt through usb. Previously my source was a Netgear Nighthawk router with an ssd usb drive with high res files. For some reason this sounds better to me than the Zen. Kind of weird given that the router goes for a little over $200 and the Zen coats $1400.

I haven't tried it because my dealer recommended the Mind2 over it and the zenith, but i do prefer coax out of everything i've heard. That said, playing local files vs streaming is also part of the equation.
Never mind i guess you're using it as a local server

 

[VladYR]

I haven't tried it because my dealer recommended the Mind2 over it and the zenith, but i do prefer coax out of everything i've heard. That said, playing local files vs streaming is also part of the equation.
Never mind i guess you're using it as a local server

Yes, that was the idea. I generally liked the Zen MK3 but I had it hooked up the the M Scaler while the Selekt was getting fixed. This is a cheaper model that’s a fraction of the cost and size. The latter is a plus. I thought it would sound better than a laptop running Audirvana or a router acting as a source. Contrary to expectations, it sounds worse for some reason.