[Sampajanna]

Thanks for the album tip,Nick. Really enjoying it!

 

[Triode User]

Thanks for the album tip,Nick. Really enjoying it!

Glad you like it. Any one of the tracks is excellent for betraying issues with smeared bass or overemphasised percussion or string instruments but often I go to ‘Gravity‘ or ‘When I see you naked I smell the earth’ as a quick reality check on sound quality. The latter of those two tracks has a really clean bass line with lots of subtle detail elsewhere in the instruments and it instantly betrays what Roon does to sound quality. Initially the Roon version sounds great because the music is so good but when you hear how it can really sound that is when problems are revealed.

I played that track to a friend on my Mscaler + ARC6 Dave (LMS/Squeeze server/player on K50 with Material Skin track selction). He has a dCS system and he couldn’t believe how much extra there is going on in the music compared to what he hears on his system.

They (Opium Moon) have a new album out called ‘Night + Day’ but I’m finding it a bit more difficult to like that

 

[BassicScience]

Transparency of your system, blah blah blah, sometimes you don’t know something else is better until you try it, blah, blah, blah

LOL. The old "your system isn't transparent enough" chestnut. I'll put my system up against anyone's here in terms of resolution and transparency. And again, when it comes to a different program sending the same exact data to my DAC over the same interface, I don't need to try it to know how it will sound relative to Roon. If you do, that's your prerogative. Please provide complete context on how the programs were configured before asserting that X sounds better than Roon, however.

 

[gnomen]

My comparisons had Roon Core on my K50 Server with Squeezelite Audio device output on the K50Player. This was compared to Squeeze on the K50 Server and Squeezelite on the K50 Player. This was connected to an Mscaler by USB with both and then outputting to Dave by dual BNC.

Squeeze/Squeezelite was by far the best sound quality, ie no Roon. Worst of all was Roon Core plus Roon Audio output.

I still think going back to Roon with your comparison is only sensible -- and fair. If you had a problem with Chord you would go back to them. It's impossible for us on the forum to compare every permutation when we are using different systems to begin with. You paid $500 for Roon's lifetime licence, why not contact them, explain your disappointment, and tell us here? That would be more helpful and would take the discussion forward. You have contributed some really good insights in the past including, of course, your excellent cable design.

 

[alxw0w]

Agreed. I would say that is middle ground. Unfortunately I do not like the sound of the middle ground especially with albums that I know well such as Opium Moon by Opium Moon. (Try it, it is not everyones cup of tea but I love the texture and interplay of the instruments)

Damn you... I started listening to squeeze again, and now I remember how much I missed that sound.
So I'm going to part with Roon for some time (again)
And thanks for the album recommendation - I like it a lot it kinda reminds me Dead Can Dance music.

 

[Triode User]

I still think going back to Roon with your comparison is only sensible -- and fair. If you had a problem with Chord you would go back to them. It's impossible for us on the forum to compare every permutation when we are using different systems to begin with. You paid $500 for Roon's lifetime licence, why not contact them, explain your disappointment, and tell us here? That would be more helpful and would take the discussion forward. You have contributed some really good insights in the past including, of course, your excellent cable design.

Hi Robert,

I hope you are well. I think you will have gathered from the responses on here that I am far from being a lone voice in my thoughts on Roon’s sound quality. See for instance alxw0w’s reponse above. I have talked to suffient numbers of people and hifi dealers for me to be happy that what I hear is an accurate reflection and assessment of Roon sound quality compared to the alternatives.

I know that other people have tacked Roon on this issue and Roon were not interested in entering into a discourse with them. I interpreted this at the time as Roon having decided that their sound quality was ‘good enough’ for it not to affect sales to their mainstream market. Indeed the sound quality is not terrible, it just isn’t as good as other alternatives.

I am not sure there is way to take the discussion forward. If people are happy with Roon and its sound then I am happy for them. Roon is after all a fantastic product probably without equal. However I am not sure I want to waste my time trying to convince Roon that they need to do something about their sound quality when I have seen their response to that when others have tried.

I suspect I have taken the thread well and truly off topic so I will just let it rest. At least I have suggested some new music which sounds great through Dave!

 

[MarkusBarkus]

Opium Moon by Opium Moon. (Try it, it is not everyones cup of tea but I love the texture and interplay of the instruments)

...if you like this interplay and style for testing, I can recommend Yaponske Kino by the Dakh Daughters, from the "Air" album. Some very interesting bass and string lines therein. Cheers...

 

[Ciggavelli]

LOL. The old "your system isn't transparent enough" chestnut. I'll put my system up against anyone's here in terms of resolution and transparency. And again, when it comes to a different program sending the same exact data to my DAC over the same interface, I don't need to try it to know how it will sound relative to Roon. If you do, that's your prerogative. Please provide complete context on how the programs were configured before asserting that X sounds better than Roon, however.

I was just kinda joking with you, hence the "blah blah blahs."

However, I do find it strange that you are taking the position that you don't need to try something to know how it will sound. That's a bit odd to me.

 

[Ragnar-BY]

I’ve also tried LMS and it sounds different with same gear and same music files. Quite obvious and easily picked up difference on presentation.

Although, I can’t really say which sound I like better. Depends on the rest of the gear. Roon was “softer” with direct DAVE. LMS was “too nervous” when I used Headtrip.

CDs are still better than both. I wonder how good Aurender is.

 

[muski]

Agreed with Material Skin. That is what I use with LMS/Squeezelite on the K50.

Don't forget there's also iPeng for an iOS interface to LMS. Not a Roon-level UI, but workable on a phone.

 

[muski]

Speaking of DAVE/M Scaler music...

Just when I thought the world didn't need another recording of the Beethoven Symphonies, I came across this. Released in July 2020, a great performance with some remarkable audio engineering. The percussion and bass sections are very forward and powerful, all presented in a very wide great soundstage. Nos 3 & 5 are esp. wonderful.

You'll want veil-less LMS playback to fully enjoy it I'm betting a DC4 upgrade would be insane paired with this recording. Hopefully next year...

https://open.qobuz.com/album/vfgt2ve9hh4db

Enjoy,
muski

 

[sm60]

Speaking of DAVE/M Scaler music...

Just when I thought the world didn't need another recording of the Beethoven Symphonies, I came across this. Released in July 2020, a great performance with some remarkable audio engineering. The percussion and bass sections are very forward and powerful, all presented in a very wide great soundstage. Nos 3 & 5 are esp. wonderful.

You'll want veil-less LMS playback to fully enjoy it I'm betting a DC4 upgrade would be insane paired with this recording. Hopefully next year...

https://open.qobuz.com/album/vfgt2ve9hh4db

Enjoy,
muski

Huge fan of Jordi Savall — I have a fair number of recordings on SACD and also in my Quobuz/Roon playlist. Most recordings have a few pages of liner notes. JordI writes a PhD dissertation on each of major releases. I’m talking 100+ pages of copious notes. I have learned so much history just reading his liner note dissertations. He gives concerts each year at nearby UC Berkeley. This year he’s going to feature music from the film Tous Le Matin de Monde (this was a movie about the composer Marin Marias, who Jordi has extensively recorded).

 

[TheHifiBear]

I bought an Innuos Zenith for my mDave a couple of weeks ago and am truly loving it.

Because of some issues with my mDave and USB in from Zenith causing pops and cracks I have been using my Node 2i as Roon Endpoint and Zenith as Core and sometimes switched to Sense only using M Scaler on blue OP SR (as that does not cause issues).

This has let me listen to both Sense and Roon and I’m definitely hearing differences in the sound tonality, Sense being a lot thicker and richer, Roon being a bit thin in comparison.
I’m still to decide which sound is most preferred.

But I have to routes to go
1. Sense and adding a PhoenixUSB
2. Roon adding a Meridian 210 as Endpoint

Do any of you use the Meridian 210 with a Zenith or similar and can tell if it’s worth it? Does it sound better than Sense?

Any advice is appreciated.

Regarding the pop-issue I am in contact with Chord about it, it’s just progressing very slow for some reason. But hopefully that gets fixed some day.

 

[VladYR]

I bought an Innuos Zenith for my mDave a couple of weeks ago and am truly loving it.

Because of some issues with my mDave and USB in from Zenith causing pops and cracks I have been using my Node 2i as Roon Endpoint and Zenith as Core and sometimes switched to Sense only using M Scaler on blue OP SR (as that does not cause issues).

This has let me listen to both Sense and Roon and I’m definitely hearing differences in the sound tonality, Sense being a lot thicker and richer, Roon being a bit thin in comparison.
I’m still to decide which sound is most preferred.

But I have to routes to go
1. Sense and adding a PhoenixUSB
2. Roon adding a Meridian 210 as Endpoint

Do any of you use the Meridian 210 with a Zenith or similar and can tell if it’s worth it? Does it sound better than Sense?

Any advice is appreciated.

Regarding the pop-issue I am in contact with Chord about it, it’s just progressing very slow for some reason. But hopefully that gets fixed some day.

Zenith, when it works properly, is quite nice in the Dave & M Scaler ecosystem. Personally, I would steer clear of all things Meridian. They’ve been pushing that idiotic MQA format for years, which was recently exposed as totally lossy. When a firm is peddling low quality snake oil, I don’t have any confidence in their hardware. That’s besides the point that Meridian has been losing huge sums of money. That in and of itself does not bode well in terms of product longevity and long term support.

p.s.

If you’re looking to add a streamer, consider Linn Selekt DSM (preferably with the Katalyst dac) or a Naim NDX 2. Both have somewhat different sound signatures and feature sets.

 

[TheHifiBear]

Zenith, when it works properly, is quite nice in the Dave & M Scaler ecosystem. Personally, I would steer clear of all things Meridian. They’ve been pushing that idiotic MQA format for years, which was recently exposed as totally lossy. When a firm is peddling low quality snake oil, I don’t have any confidence in their hardware. That’s besides the point that Meridian has been losing huge sums of money. That in and of itself does not bode well in terms of product longevity and long term support.

p.s.

If you’re looking to add a streamer, consider Linn Selekt DSM (preferably with the Katalyst dac) or a Naim NDX 2. Both have somewhat different sound signatures and feature sets.

Thanks for the suggestion. I’m not looking for a replacement for Dave as it’s sound is exactly what I’ve been looking for for years.

Ideally I find a simple streamer product that is only that, as I’m tired of purchasing products that do more than I need.

The Meridian 210 was recommended to me by my dealer with the argument that Meridian consisted of prior Roon devolopers (or something like that), meaning Meridian knows how to integrate properly with Roon.

I agree with you on MQA, I recently switched from Tidal to Qobuz for that exact reason and actually felt that Qobuz sounded better, even for non-MQA songs.
But even though Meridian is pushing in that directing it’s the SQ that I’m pursuing. I can live with disagreeing with the company’s philosophy.