CHORD ELECTRONICS DAVE

[DJJEZ]

Why are you amazed? It is not surprising due to the design of the Dave & M Scaler. Rob Watts is the only dac designer using a long tap length reconstruction filter that I know of. The Dave & M Scaler require some tweaking to sound their best, but all high end systems do.
Just because dCS components are over priced doesn't mean that they sound better. If the design philosophy is wrong or badly executed, it doesn't matter how much the component costs. External clocks, lower quality single ended outputs and computer ribbon cables carrying digital and analogue signals have no place in a high end dac imho.

I haven't heard rossini or bartok. I owned a full 4 box dCS Scarlatti before purchasing the Dave.

Interesting

 

[Sampajanna]

Thats one view of the world.

@Sampajanna I have never found optical direct into my Dave or into the Mscaler to be the best, or at least it is not the sound I prefer. There is also a nagging doubt about why optical is absent from so many top streamers, eg Innuos and Antipodes which are the ones I have. I did hear an interview with Nuno some time ago saying they tried optical but it had more noise in the circuit than USB and so that is why they went with USB. My system was really set up to use USB out of the Statement and so when I got the Antipodes K50 I carried on using that until I tried BNC as suggested by a friend and now I much prefer it. Everything just seems better, tone, depth and quality of the bass, delicacy of the top end etc. There are a few threads on AS about people changing from USB to BNC on Chord Dacs and they all like it. But the best way is to try it for yourself if you can.

@Triode User I would love to try bnc. I’m still rockin a Statement, though. Been eyeing the K50, but seems mostly lateral and bnc may not be worth all the switching. I appreciate and value your thoughts, though.

 

[Ciggavelli]

@Triode User I would love to try bnc. I’m still rockin a Statement, though. Been eyeing the K50, but seems mostly lateral and bnc may not be worth all the switching. I appreciate and value your thoughts, though.

My K50 arrived today. I still need time to evaluate it fully, but first impressions are great. Blacker backgrounds, better bass, what seems like a bit of an increase in the soundstage width. I'm using Roon Server to Roon Player at the moment. I'll try Squeezelite Player tomorrow to see if it is better. So, long story short, the K50 is better than the Innuos Zenith Mk3 + Phoenix that used to have. I haven't tried using the Innuos Phoenix USB with my K50, but I will try it out soon.

 

[Darkliner]

Talking about interconnects, to all the Dave owners pairing with balanced amplifier, do you prefer XLR or RCA connection to amp? From reading both Dave and WA33, I see Rob Watts of Chord recommending RCA out and Woo Audio recommending XLR in for WA33 due to balanced design.

I did some testing with the WA33 in my own setup, and I prefer the RCA connection. While I feel XLR provides slightly bigger soundstage / space, there is bit of harshness introduced somehow to my ears and sounds less engaging. Not an expert in all the audiophile terms so that's my impression. Also have to say it's not a fair apples to apples test, as the RCA cables I have on hand is 3x the retail price of the XLR. But they are all below USD <$1000. So not talking crazy cables.

Would be keen to get other's experience!

I use rca connection to the wa33 from the dave. I tested both the xlr and rca connections using the same grade of cable awhile back. I preferred the rca connection as it offered me greater transparency.

 

[ObjectiveSubjectivist]

Again, this idea of an amp behind the Dave polluting the signal is nothing more than something that's been imagined on this site imho.

Nope it's not imagined. You will always lose transparency/immediacy (as many other things) of the sound when using preamp/hp amp.
But on the other hand it doesn't change your subjective perception of sound and how you like your system to sound.
Some people prefer RAW uncolored sound (even though for some folks it may look like it's dull, lacking dynamics, lacking soundstage etc)
And some people prefer a bit more lively wider sounding music - so they choose to add preamp (maybe some tubes) or hp amp.

Nobody shouldn't tell you how you should listen to your music/system - a real gentelman doesn't do that , but we can and we should exchange our views. As in longer run everybody will benefit from expanding his horizons or just analysing different point of view.

 

[Triode User]

@Triode User I would love to try bnc. I’m still rockin a Statement, though. Been eyeing the K50, but seems mostly lateral and bnc may not be worth all the switching. I appreciate and value your thoughts, though.

And of course with the Statement you get to use the new Innuos 2.0 app which has a great user interface.

A number of Chord owners have been using the AudioWise SRC-DX usb to bnc convertor and there is a thread on AS discussing this.

 

[The Jester]

Nope it's not imagined. You will always lose transparency/immediacy (as many other things) of the sound when using preamp/hp amp.
But on the other hand it doesn't change your subjective perception of sound and how you like your system to sound.
Some people prefer RAW uncolored sound (even though for some folks it may look like it's dull, lacking dynamics, lacking soundstage etc)
And some people prefer a bit more lively wider sounding music - so they choose to add preamp (maybe some tubes) or hp amp.

Nobody shouldn't tell you how you should listen to your music/system - a real gentelman doesn't do that , but we can and we should exchange our views. As in longer run everybody will benefit from expanding his horizons or just analysing different point of view.

What a nice refreshing post
Too many threads here tend to descend into “lively discussion” ….
With the Dave I’d guess there’s the minimum of components in the signal path, and even less in pure DAC mode, but with say a good quality tube preamp there could be less components as the design is quite simple enough to allow point to point wiring and no PCB or semiconductor ground substrate, but as you say in the end it’s up to the preference of each individual, and the quality of the recording and engineering to attempt to get transparency back to the original performance …
Maybe no coincidence that Rob Watts has turned his attentions towards a pro ADC ?

 

[Sampajanna]

And of course with the Statement you get to use the new Innuos 2.0 app which has a great user interface.

A number of Chord owners have been using the AudioWise SRC-DX usb to bnc convertor and there is a thread on AS discussing this.

I’ll look into that!

 

[DaveRedRef-III]

Got to share this experience when recently purchasing a pair of RCA cables.

On Thursday night 22:00 I ordered online a couple of RCA cables for a pair of Subwoofers I am expecting to arrive shortly. Upon reading up about the merits (or not) of bothering to buy expensive cables for Subwoofers I opted for a fairly highly rated cheap cable the LC-1 from Blue Jeans based in Seattle. So at 01:00 that same night I received an email from Blue Jeans to confirm the products were made and had been despatched to FedEx. Later that morning FedEx sent an email saying they would deliver today, Monday. The products arrived at 13:00 today.
That is, by a country mile, the best service I have experienced for any electrical product on an overseas order. UK customs alone can normally be relied upon to hold electrical goods up for at least a week. Anyway, bloody well done Blue Jeans and FedEx. Impressed.

 

[number1sixerfan]

Nope it's not imagined. You will always lose transparency/immediacy (as many other things) of the sound when using preamp/hp amp.
But on the other hand it doesn't change your subjective perception of sound and how you like your system to sound.
Some people prefer RAW uncolored sound (even though for some folks it may look like it's dull, lacking dynamics, lacking soundstage etc)
And some people prefer a bit more lively wider sounding music - so they choose to add preamp (maybe some tubes) or hp amp.

Nobody shouldn't tell you how you should listen to your music/system - a real gentelman doesn't do that , but we can and we should exchange our views. As in longer run everybody will benefit from expanding his horizons or just analysing different point of view.

Yes, I understand that. The point is in the real world, is it quantifiable or significant (not talking charts)? My answer to that is barely, if at all, with quality components. I've not told anyone what to do with their system, and certainly we can acknowledge that we all hear different, but when you have people saying a "Dave is no longer a Dave" when used with an amp, you enter a certain realm of ridiculousness imho. I've seen newer members in this thread adopt the idea that the Dave can't and shouldn't be used with an amp, and it's bit silly, so yea I think it's valuable to state so.

Again, I'd very much love to see well thought out impressions and comparisons vs. vague blanket, recycled statements.

 

[ObjectiveSubjectivist]

Again, I'd very much love to see well thought out impressions and comparisons vs. vague blanket, recycled statements.

My view is based on such comparisons.
Dave direct vs Dave and headphone amplifier (Ive also made similar comparisons using TT 1 directly driving power amplifier vs TT1 using preamp between an power amp also with hugo2 and Dave but in different systems). And there was noticable difference. Some people would say it was small some would say it was big. That always a personal thing. To me the choice was fairly obvious I prefer headphones to be directly driven by the Dave.
When I state my opinion I always make sure that it's based on my experience not on some deluded information heard on the internet. (If I don't have personal experience I'll always try to mark that)

Oh and one more thing I'm not telling that everybody should like the same things that I like. But the statement that the difference is negligible is just plain false.

 

[number1sixerfan]

My view is based on such comparisons.
Dave direct vs Dave and headphone amplifier (Ive also made similar comparisons using TT 1 directly driving power amplifier vs TT1 using preamp between an power amp also with hugo2 and Dave but in different systems). And there was noticable difference. Some people would say it was small some would say it was big. That always a personal thing. To me the choice was fairly obvious I prefer headphones to be directly driven by the Dave.
When I state my opinion I always make sure that it's based on my experience not on some deluded information heard on the internet. (If I don't have personal experience I'll always try to mark that)

I'm not questioning your view. I was talking broadly when I stated that I simply have not seen such comparisons well stated/documented.

Oh and one more thing I'm not telling that everybody should like the same things that I like. But the statement that the difference is negligible is just plain false.

To you. And that's totally fine. We just disagree here and it's totally subjective. But as you said in your prior post, I agree with encouraging people to explore and determine for themselves. I understand that it could be a larger difference to someone else, and I'm totally fine if someone feels that way. I just think it's important to push back against the purist, hard stances that repeatedly resurface (again, that's not at all how you've posted, I'm specifically talking about sentiment such as "the dave isnt the dave...").

 

[saudio7]

My view is based on such comparisons.
Dave direct vs Dave and headphone amplifier (Ive also made similar comparisons using TT 1 directly driving power amplifier vs TT1 using preamp between an power amp also with hugo2 and Dave but in different systems). And there was noticable difference. Some people would say it was small some would say it was big. That always a personal thing. To me the choice was fairly obvious I prefer headphones to be directly driven by the Dave.
When I state my opinion I always make sure that it's based on my experience not on some deluded information heard on the internet. (If I don't have personal experience I'll always try to mark that)

Oh and one more thing I'm not telling that everybody should like the same things that I like. But the statement that the difference is negligible is just plain false.

Not with all amps, you are generalizing, one example is Niimbus US4+, you don’t lose anything.

 

[ObjectiveSubjectivist]

Not with all amps, you are generalizing, one example is Niimbus US4+, you don’t lose anything.

Haven't heard nimbus, but if you say so.

 

[omniweltall]

My view is based on such comparisons.
Dave direct vs Dave and headphone amplifier (Ive also made similar comparisons using TT 1 directly driving power amplifier vs TT1 using preamp between an power amp also with hugo2 and Dave but in different systems). And there was noticable difference. Some people would say it was small some would say it was big. That always a personal thing. To me the choice was fairly obvious I prefer headphones to be directly driven by the Dave.
When I state my opinion I always make sure that it's based on my experience not on some deluded information heard on the internet. (If I don't have personal experience I'll always try to mark that)

Oh and one more thing I'm not telling that everybody should like the same things that I like. But the statement that the difference is negligible is just plain false.

Your observation is actually quite common. I noted similar observations, but with Hugo 1 and 2. A friend of mine noted similar findings with the Dave.

Not sure why though. Chord is unique in this way, I guess. We tried quite a number of good amps, especially my friend who has really good amps. And no, we haven't tried ALL the amps in the universe.