[Triode User]

I know some people here would disagree strongly with me as they felt power cords/supplies/computer server design affects the sound a lot more.

USB to M-scaler is galvanically isolated whereas the BNC input to M-Scaler does not have galvanic isolation. Of course, Toslink would definitely be completely galvanically isolated which means no ground loop leakage current RF noise would leak into M-Scaler/DAVE. And since pulse array DACs have a totally different level of jitter immunity compared to other non-Chord DACs, you can easily get away with feeding Chord DACs Toslink without a loss in sound quality. However, no USB galvanic isolation is perfect (unless it’s optical?) so depending on your desktop and computer network system, you can still potentially get RF noise leaking through the USB.

So ultimately, once you ask the question how does BNC compared to USB, to me, you’re really asking, how does it compare in a specific system. If you’re playing off a battery-powered iPad/laptop via USB to M-Scaler, vs a battery-power laptop into a USB to BNC converter into M-Scaller, they should (and do in my system) sound identical because there is no RF noise leaking into DAVE to negatively affect the sound. But if you’re running a noisy desktop PC with switching power supply feeding USB to M-Scaler and comparing it with a high-end CD transport with linear power supply via BNC to M-Scaler, you’ll probably find the BNC to sound better because even without the galvanic isolation, there may be less RF noise leaking from the CD transport into DAVE vs the PC into M-Scaler. With this in mind, you can really complicate your power supplies and computer system/network setup to alter the amount and type of RF noise that leaks into the DAVE if you connect via USB (and BNC).

Thats one view of the world.

@Sampajanna I have never found optical direct into my Dave or into the Mscaler to be the best, or at least it is not the sound I prefer. There is also a nagging doubt about why optical is absent from so many top streamers, eg Innuos and Antipodes which are the ones I have. I did hear an interview with Nuno some time ago saying they tried optical but it had more noise in the circuit than USB and so that is why they went with USB. My system was really set up to use USB out of the Statement and so when I got the Antipodes K50 I carried on using that until I tried BNC as suggested by a friend and now I much prefer it. Everything just seems better, tone, depth and quality of the bass, delicacy of the top end etc. There are a few threads on AS about people changing from USB to BNC on Chord Dacs and they all like it. But the best way is to try it for yourself if you can.

 

[griff500]

Yup you called it. I knew within 2 mins of listening I was gonna buy a DAVE lol

That's why I tell people that they should not demo a DAVE unless they are ready to buy.

Enjoy, it really is a fabulous DAC.

 

[DJJEZ]

That's why I tell people that they should not demo a DAVE unless they are ready to buy.

Enjoy, it really is a fabulous DAC.

I totally agree. I waited till I was in a position to afford it before I home demo'd.

 

[sm60]

I personally think that nobody should ever use the DAC mode for DAVE. It is not automatic so in theory you could be in DAC mode and have an HP plugged to the front jack and maybe damage the HP so I have never tried it. As long as your DAC is in Digital Pre mode, if the HP is plugged in, the sound only goes to HP. If there is no HP plugged in, the sound goes to the RCA and XLR at the same time. DAVE remembers a separate volume for HP & a separate volume for RCA+XLR.

My reasons for people to always keep the DAVE in Digital Pre mode are:
1) If you love DAC mode so much, you can just stay in Digital Pre mode and set the volume at -3dB. They’re identical
2) Many amplifiers clip at 2V or 1V instead of 3V. So you actually don’t want your DAVE to be in DAC mode putting out 3V if your amp is clipping at 1/2V
3) Most amplifiers with analog volume control (integrated amplifiers) have specific volumes where they perform their best, in terms of low-level linearity, SNR and channel balance. Usually, it’s around 12 o’clock on the dial. I think it’s better to just leave your analog volume control set specifically at that position and then use DAVE to adjust the volume, rather than set DAVE at 3V and then adjust your amp’s volume control if you want optimal sound.

I never keep my Dave in preamp mode unless I’m running it direct into a balanced amplifier. It’s always otherwise in DAC mode going into my Audio Research Ref tube preamp, which can handle all that the Dave can throw at it. Preamp mode is to my ears like listening to FM radio. All the dynamics that a top class preamp brings to the system vanish. This is not meant as a put down of the Dave, which is a great sounding DAC in DAC mode. Just don’t confuse it as a great preamp or a great headphone amplifier, because it is neither. I’ve owned quality DAC’s for over 25 years and the same critique applies to all of them. They make for lousy preamplifiers. There’s a reason Chord offers a range of preamplifiers in their line up, from the relatively inexpensive to the cost no object model.

 

[jlbrach]

in terms of the signal from the dave into your amp it matters not how you arrive at -3...it is exactly the same

 

[audio_1]

Yup you called it. I knew within 2 mins of listening I was gonna buy a DAVE lol

I did too. I was comparing it to the dCS Vivaldi at the time. That was without the Blu 2, Opto-dx, Farad Super3 lps and conditioned mains!

 

[audio_1]

"There’s a reason Chord offers a range of preamplifiers in their line up, from the relatively inexpensive to the cost no object model"

To make money! There is no way a pre-amp, pair of interconnects, power cord etc. can sound as good as Dave direct to a power amp in a loudspeaker system imho.

 

[mammal]

To make money! There is no way a pre-amp, pair of interconnects, power cord etc. can sound as good as Dave direct to a power amp in a loudspeaker system imho.

That assumes a person values (or optimises for) transparency. I for one, may have a different goal, where a pre-amp adds coloration my speakers may need (just an example).

 

[audio_1]

That assumes a person values transparency. I for one, may have a different goal, where a pre-amp adds coloration my speakers may need (just an example).

But you no longer have a Dave. Transparency brings, realism, depth, emotion, power, dynamics, prat, enjoyment etc. These qualities can't be brought back if lost or reduced.

 

[number1sixerfan]

To make money! There is no way a pre-amp, pair of interconnects, power cord etc. can sound as good as Dave direct to a power amp in a loudspeaker system imho.

This just isn't true. And is solely a purist point of view.

Again, this idea of an amp behind the Dave polluting the signal is nothing more than something that's been imagined on this site imho. I have not seen a single, well thought out and communicated set of impressions comparing the Dave's preamp or headphone amp to high quality dedicated headphone or speaker amps ever stating so. Just one line, vague "oh but you're ruining the Dave" imaginary fairy tell statements. I'm sorry, no offense to anybody lol.

If you want to be a purist, fine. But let's please stop being ridiculous lol. At least with headphone amps, I've thoroughly compared them and it simply is not true in the real world. But that's just my opinion, maybe my ears are broken.

 

[DJJEZ]

I did too. I was comparing it to the dCS Vivaldi at the time. That was without the Blu 2, Opto-dx, Farad Super3 lps and conditioned mains!

Im amazed you preferred the dave over vivaldi. Have you heard rossini or bartok?

 

[mammal]

But you no longer have a Dave. Transparency brings, realism, depth, emotion, power dynamics, prat, enjoyment etc, why dilute it?

I absolutely agree that you no longer have Dave, but on your second point "why dilute it", who are we to judge? You seem to prefer absolute transparency, and I respect that, but others have different ears/brains and what Dave offers straight out may not satisfy them, for whatever reason. Why is that a bad thing...

 

[ecwl]

There is also a nagging doubt about why optical is absent from so many top streamers, eg Innuos and Antipodes which are the ones I have. I did hear an interview with Nuno some time ago saying they tried optical but it had more noise in the circuit than USB and so that is why they went with USB.

This is 100% true. If you’re on Toslink, you have a lot more jitter. No amount of jitter reduction mechanisms would be able to address the problems the jitter causes on conventional DAC architecture (DSD DACs, R2R DACs or even dCS Ring DACs), even with femtosecond clocks. This is because the residual jitter would always be transmitted to the flip-flop stage to create noise floor modulation (based on my somewhat limited understanding). So yes, there would be more noise in the DAC circuit fed Toslink for non-Chord DACs. Hence, why would any top streamers add a Toslink mechanism that would only sound good on Chord DACs and sound worse on non-Chord DACs?

That said, I do agree with you there is a wide variety of opinions on the importance of power supplies, network steamers, servers, switches. Ultimately, I do think that as long as we are happy with the sound of our system, that’s what matters the most. I like mine on Toslink. Others like theirs on USB/BNC. We both love our sound from our Chord DACs so that’s all that matters.

 

[Triode User]

This is 100% true. If you’re on Toslink, you have a lot more jitter. No amount of jitter reduction mechanisms would be able to address the problems the jitter causes on conventional DAC architecture (DSD DACs, R2R DACs or even dCS Ring DACs), even with femtosecond clocks. This is because the residual jitter would always be transmitted to the flip-flop stage to create noise floor modulation (based on my somewhat limited understanding). So yes, there would be more noise in the DAC circuit fed Toslink for non-Chord DACs. Hence, why would any top streamers add a Toslink mechanism that would only sound good on Chord DACs and sound worse on non-Chord DACs?

That said, I do agree with you there is a wide variety of opinions on the importance of power supplies, network steamers, servers, switches. Ultimately, I do think that as long as we are happy with the sound of our system, that’s what matters the most. I like mine on Toslink. Others like theirs on USB/BNC. We both love our sound from our Chord DACs so that’s all that matters.

yep all agreed, cool.

 

[audio_1]

Im amazed you preferred the dave over vivaldi. Have you heard rossini or bartok?

Why are you amazed? It is not surprising due to the design of the Dave & M Scaler. Rob Watts is the only dac designer using a long tap length reconstruction filter that I know of. The Dave & M Scaler require some tweaking to sound their best, but all high end systems do.
Just because dCS components are over priced doesn't mean that they sound better. If the design philosophy is wrong or badly executed, it doesn't matter how much the component costs. External clocks, lower quality single ended outputs and computer ribbon cables carrying digital and analogue signals have no place in a high end dac imho.

I haven't heard rossini or bartok. I owned a full 4 box dCS Scarlatti before purchasing the Dave.