[x RELIC x]

If you take upsampling and taps out of the equation with the M Scaler, what is the effective difference between a Hugo TT2 and a DAVE? ie what does the DAVE have that the TT2 doesn’t and/or vice versa.

And is a DAC imaginable. say in a M Scaler case, that just does the DAC bit and leaves the unpsampling to the M Scaler? In other words no redundant cores doing upsampling, and no redundant inputs.

TT2 has 98,304 TAPs, supercaps, huge power output, and 10e Pulse Array DAC.

DAVE has 164,000 TAPs, 20e Pulse Array DAC.

Measurably the DAVE is still the best DAC but the TT2 has a lot going for it. Need more impressions and comparisons to get a big picture of subjective sound impressions.

The M scaler would level the playing field somewhat, but the 20 element Pulse Array in the DAVE is a key factor after the M scaler.

 

[AndrewOld]

TT2 has 98,304 TAPs, supercaps, huge power output, and 10e Pulse Array DAC.

DAVE has 164,000 TAPs, 20e Pulse Array DAC.

Measurably the DAVE is still the best DAC but the TT2 has a lot going for it. Need more impressions and comparisons to get a big picture of subjective sound impressions.

The M scaler would level the playing field somewhat, but the 20 element Pulse Array in the DAVE is a key factor after the M scaler.

Could you put the 20 element pulse array DAC of the DAVE in a box and feed it from an MScaler? If you have an M Scaler you don’t need any of the inputs of the DAVE, or the upscaler. The extra power output of the TT2 is of no interest to anyone with active speakers or a power amp - it will just overload a subsequent amplification stage.

 

[ecwl]

Could you put the 20 element pulse array DAC of the DAVE in a box and feed it from an MScaler? If you have an M Scaler you don’t need any of the inputs of the DAVE, or the upscaler.

No. But in many ways, the power pulse array amplifiers are probably going to be that box you speak of. After receiving signals from an M-Scaler, assuming it’s 768kHz or 705.4kHz, DAVE still uses another level of a WTA filtering to up sample to 256fs. And then, there’s standard filtering to upsample to 104MHz. And then there is noise shaping to the signal and then conversion to play the sound back using the 20-element pulse array. I see a lot of people just comparing Hugo 2 and DAVE in terms of number of elements but people are forgetting that the noise shapers in DAVE, Hugo TT 2 and Hugo 2 are different.

 

[ecwl]

I see a lot of people just comparing Hugo 2 and DAVE in terms of number of elements but people are forgetting that the noise shapers in DAVE, Hugo TT 2 and Hugo 2 are different.

I actually went back to Rob Watts Powerpoint presentations and comments. In terms of noise shaper orders:
Hugo: 5th order noise shaper
Hugo 2: 11th order noise shaper
Hugo TT 2: 12th order noise shaper
DAVE: 17th order noise shaper

 

[wswbd]

Perhaps Chord should make a Dave 2 with the new million taps and TT2 's output power (and yes in one chassis.

 

[audio_1]

Perhaps Chord should make a Dave 2 with the new million taps and TT2 's output power (and yes in one chassis.

This will be the Davina which also has an ADC until the Dave 2 is released.

 

[AndrewOld]

No. But in many ways, the power pulse array amplifiers are probably going to be that box you speak of. After receiving signals from an M-Scaler, assuming it’s 768kHz or 705.4kHz, DAVE still uses another level of a WTA filtering to up sample to 256fs. And then, there’s standard filtering to upsample to 104MHz. And then there is noise shaping to the signal and then conversion to play the sound back using the 20-element pulse array. I see a lot of people just comparing Hugo 2 and DAVE in terms of number of elements but people are forgetting that the noise shapers in DAVE, Hugo TT 2 and Hugo 2 are different.

Thanks. Looking ahead, can you see a way for this technology to support active speakers?

 

[ecwl]

Thanks. Looking ahead, can you see a way for this technology to support active speakers?

Not sure. Speakers as you know requires either passive or active crossovers. It is obviously possible to have an amplifier tech drive any passive crossover speakers but then why make the active speakers to begin with. But once one is committed to an active crossover, that means you’d either need an M-Scaler to get to 16fs and then use that signal to split into your 2-way or 3-way or 4-way signals to be sent to the 2-4 sets of power pulse array amplifiers. Alternatively, I guess you could run the active crossover at the original signal frequency say 44kHz first and then send the 2-4 way signals each into its own M-Scaler and then into its own power pulse array amplifier. That sounds more suboptimal. Either way sounds like a lot of complexity and could get pricey. But then maybe not. I guess once you’ve built a circuit and if it can handle the thermal aspects and noise isolation aspects, maybe it’s possible. Really not sure. But it’s not clear that’s the direction Chord wants to go in.

 

[Rob Watts]

It looks like it takes a 15v DC input. I wonder how many amps is required?

It depends upon the music input and is typically 12W whilst playing.

I notice it also says “Auto video and Source selection”. How does it know to auto select video?

And it also says “When partnered with either of Chord Electronics’ 768kHz-capable dual-BNC-input DACs, the Hugo M Scaler sets an astonishing technical benchmark”. Is that right? Aren’t there more than two dual BNC input Chord DACS?

You can have manual video mode (off 1M taps 0.63 S delay, white 2/3M taps 0.1S delay) or auto (48kHz input - cyan - is assumed to be video and all other sample rates is assumed to be not video - yellow)

You're basing things on an assumption since the Blu2 CD player works? We're not talking about that product and Chord themselves (so far at least) has in fact stated the Hugo M Scaler does not work to full potential with the Hugo 2. They may be wrong, but we should not assume so until we get the official word, or they update their specs for it.

It does indeed work to full 1M taps 768k with Hugo 2.

I'm still confused about exactly what the M Scaler does in conjunction with the Hugo 2. I don't raise this as a criticism; I just want to know if the M Scaler brings the exact same benefits to the Hugo 2 as it does to the DAVE, Hugo TT and the Qutest. And if it does not, how does it differ?

The press release from Chord re: the M Scaler says:

Hugo M Scaler uses the world’s most advanced filter technology to upscale standard 44.1kHz digital audio up to 705.6kHz (16x CD’s 44.1kHz native resolution), ready to be passed to a suitable DAC; Hugo M Scaler extends its upscaling performance to 768kHz (from 96kHz input data) for dual-BNC-input Chord Electronics DACs: DAVE, Qutest and the new Hugo TT 2.

And later in the same document:

Hugo M Scaler’s outputs include optical, S/PDIF and galvanically isolated dual BNC, the latter of which enable upscaling to the maximum resolution (768kHz from 96kHz data) for direct connection to the 768kHz-capable dual BNC digital inputs featured on the DAVEDAC/pre/headphone amp, the recently announced (High End 2018, Munich) Hugo TT 2 DAC/pre/head amp and the new Qutest standalone DAC.

I've read the back and forth above about this, but to me Chord's Press Release seems to state that there is in fact a difference between what the M Scaler can do for the Hugo 2 and the Hugo TT 2, et al. The M Scaler will take 96kHz input data and output 768kHz on a Hugo TT 2. By not mentioning the Hugo2, twice, it seems that Chord is saying that the M Scaler will not output 768mHz to a Hugo2.

Does the fact that the Press Release does not expressly say that the M Scaler can output 768kHz to the Hugo 2 mean that the M Scaler doesn't do this?

I think the answer is one of the following:
The M Scaler will not output 768kHz data through a Hugo 2;
The M Scaler can output 768kHz data through a Hugo 2, and it was an oversight by Chord to not mention the Hugo 2 in the Press Release; or
The M Scaler can output 768kHz data through a Hugo 2 but only with some kind of dual BNC to coaxial converter.
Also, I would also like to know if the Hugo 2 is a "suitable DAC" to take advantage of the M Scaler's ability "to upscale standard 44.1kHz digital audio up to 705.6kHz (16x CD’s 44.1kHz native resolution)."

The answers to these questions will help me decide if I want to get an M Scaler to pair with my Hugo 2, to get an M Scaler with a Hugo TT 2, or to do nothing. Of course those answers won't be determinative--what will ultimately matter are the extent of any qualitative differences between the sound of the Hugo2 and the Hugo TT2 on their own, and between those DACS with and without an M Scaler. Those answers can only be answered when the Hugo TT 2 and the M Scaler are available.

I hope Chord will please clarify this issue when they get a chance.

Yes Hugo 2 gets exactly the same benefits as Qutest, TT2, and Dave. Frankly it has transformed my usage of Hugo 2... I can't be without it.

 

[Raghu6446]

Hi rob watts
Does the new mscaller with dave have an advantage over blu dave?
Will there be problem pairing dave to Hugo mscaller as it is meant for Hugo series not the choral series.

Thanks

 

[Rob Watts]

No it's absolutely fine with Dave. The benefits over Blu2 is not having to worry about ferrites on the BNC cables - but remember the whole issue of ferrites was always the top layer of icing on the cake!

 

[Raghu6446]

Thanks rob
When these shipping

 

[Raghu6446]

Rob
Does the new m scaller have the same fpga as the blu2 or is it more advanced?
Which filter has been used in new mscaller as blu2 has 16fs filter?
As dual bnc is galvanically isolated the BNC connectors does it matter to buy an expensive bnc cable?

Thanks

 

[Arpiben]

It depends upon the music input and is typically 12W whilst playing.



You can have manual video mode (off 1M taps 0.63 S delay, white 2/3M taps 0.1S delay) or auto (48kHz input - cyan - is assumed to be video and all other sample rates is assumed to be not video - yellow)

It does indeed work to full 1M taps 768k with Hugo 2.



Yes Hugo 2 gets exactly the same benefits as Qutest, TT2, and Dave. Frankly it has transformed my usage of Hugo 2... I can't be without it.

I do really appreciate the DIY Digital BNC cable in the picture.
To some extent, it may show how well EMI is reduced in MSCaler.

 

[Staxton]

Yes Hugo 2 gets exactly the same benefits as Qutest, TT2, and Dave. Frankly it has transformed my usage of Hugo 2... I can't be without it.

Thanks very much, Rob for the clarification. I was hoping that was the case. It looks like I have an M Scaler in my future!