[Momogi]

Hello everyone, first time poster but long time reader here.

I'am also torn apart on Romaz vs Rob opinion about source.
So generally I trust user opinion more than any word from manufacturer, especially report from a respected member like Romaz.
On the other hand, my listening sessions over the years has revealed that my ear prefer the 'dull and flatter' sound rather than the more dynamic, detail, toe tapping one. Because those livelier sound, to my ear, usually come with a price, that is brightness, which lead to fatigue.
So I think I'm with Rob on this one. Also, this makes me so happy because 1) This turn out to be the correct path, at least according to Rob, 2) I can save money, as there is no need to add various component to make Dave better.

Now I don't dispute the improvement that many member reported by using various chains & gears. But as Romaz pointed out, people have different sensitivity and preference, and my ears probably more sensitive to this brightness and fatigue issue.

 

[Triode User]

On a different note while rolling a few power cables on the Dave I noticed a strange effect.
With some of them when touching the metal chassis of the DAC I could feel like micro currents flowing through my hands.
It happened to me in the past when I was using a dimmable bedside table lamp.
I don't have this with the Ice Age Silver I am using but I have it with the Ice Age Copper and the stock cable.
Any ideas what it is?

I'm slightly guessing but it might be the stray electro magnetic field from the power cord creating a small voltage through your hands which then goes to ground on the DAC chassis (which is grounded) and that is what you are feeling. A properly shielded power cord (with the shield connected to earth) should minimise or or avoid this.

 

[delirium]

Unless there are people sat listening in the same room at the same time it is very difficult to have these conversations. One person might decide that your sound stage is a false creation added by noise from the extra piece of kit. Or alternatively they might be convinced by your sound and set about trying to find out why it is better. It might not be the actual clocking that is altering the sound if Dave really is immune from reclocked sources.

Until then I think your stance of keeping with what you have got because you prefer the end result is entirely legitimate and I would

 

[delirium]

Adding a master clock to my sCLK-EX clocking board makes a big difference in sound stage from DAVE. Without the master clock, the sound stage collapses compared to with. Width/separation is what is effected. I'm not the only one hearing this, as confirmed by others. How it is that DAVE can be effected by these external clocking changes is beyond my technical understandings. I can only hear the results. And they are pleasing to my experience with DAVE.

I am starting to belive you on this..

 

[Hifi Boy]

I feel relieved, thanks!

What can I say. While I was reading your post, I felt a genuine enjoyment radiating from it, just as I'd expect from someone who owns a Dave.

Please keep enjoying it!

 

[jayz]

Interesting/different take on active speakers by Andrew Jones.

Feed these via Rob's DAC's analogue outputs and the analogue signal stays analogue.

I totally agree when Andrew says with active you can reach levels not possible easily with passive. Easily is the key word there meaning alternative solutions possible but at a significant cost or with limitations e.g. crossover-less single driver solutions.

He is also right to offer a pure analog path into the speakers because most manufacturers make the mistake of cramming digital processing into actives which prevents owners benefiting from advances in digital processing technology. One thing to note however is Andrew/Elac is late to that market. My Qutest feeds actives and the result is nothing short of stunning.

I've loved all of the Andrew Jones speakers I've ever heard

The more recent Elac ones are okay (for the asking price) but I have heard his TAD Compact reference 1s on several occasions and wasn't impressed. The TAD top-end drivers are dual co-centric designs and the crossover crosses right within the highest sensitivity region with low order crossovers slopes result being the breakup of drivers is readily audible as harshness. Of course if you place them in a large ballroom 15 feet away from walls and listen from another 20 feet away (which is how they are usually demoed) maybe that might not appear to be an issue but for the asking price - thanks but no thanks.

 

[elviscaprice]

Hello everyone, first time poster but long time reader here.

I'am also torn apart on Romaz vs Rob opinion about source.
So generally I trust user opinion more than any word from manufacturer, especially report from a respected member like Romaz.
On the other hand, my listening sessions over the years has revealed that my ear prefer the 'dull and flatter' sound rather than the more dynamic, detail, toe tapping one. Because those livelier sound, to my ear, usually come with a price, that is brightness, which lead to fatigue.
So I think I'm with Rob on this one. Also, this makes me so happy because 1) This turn out to be the correct path, at least according to Rob, 2) I can save money, as there is no need to add various component to make Dave better.

Now I don't dispute the improvement that many member reported by using various chains & gears. But as Romaz pointed out, people have different sensitivity and preference, and my ears probably more sensitive to this brightness and fatigue issue.

No fatigue here, can listen all day to my sCLK EX/master clocked server feeding DAVE via USB. I am very sensitive to any digital noise. Have spades of detail within a wide stage. Can't wait to hear what a M-Scaler brings to the table, which will be my next big upgrade. You can save money by building your own optimized server.

 

[Momogi]

No fatigue here, can listen all day to my sCLK EX/master clocked server feeding DAVE via USB. I am very sensitive to any digital noise. Have spades of detail within a wide stage. Can't wait to hear what a M-Scaler brings to the table, which will be my next big upgrade. You can save money by building your own optimized server.

I believe you, that is also why I'm confuse. I have been following you, austinpop, romaz over at CA forum, and the majority there seem to agree about the improvement. Only thing stopping me to try your approach is time and money.

I just want to share that there are peope like me who prefer 'duller & flatter' sound. I'am open to try things, like many in here i have upgraditis, if the server and clock combo turn out to be good, I'm willing to change stance, but until that happen I'll stay with Rob's opinion.

By the way, i also use something similar to your low power server, an sd card player actually (i am not technical enough to build custom server like yours), using it's optical out and powered by 9v battery, to my ears, it beats my Aurender N100h. More fatigue free than the aurender.

Agree on the M-Scaler. But it's expensive, and the lead time seems to be forever, my friend ordered it since November last year, still hasn't arrived now.

 

[elviscaprice]

By the way, i also use something similar to your low power server, an sd card player actually (i am not technical enough to build custom server like yours), using it's optical out and powered by 9v battery, to my ears, it beats my Aurender N100h. More fatigue free than the aurender.

Agree on the M-Scaler. But it's expensive, and the lead time seems to be forever, my friend ordered it since November last year, still hasn't arrived now.

That is a smart alternative, low cost approach with the optical/battery low power server. To upgrade from there, even DIY, can get far more expensive, but not at the nose bleed levels of custom servers.
I will wait for the non transport m-scaler, no rush, enjoying the sound as is.

 

[flyte3333]

My Qutest feeds actives and the result is nothing short of stunning.

Nice. Which actives?

I assume you use the digital volume control of your playback software?

 

[doraymon]

I'm slightly guessing but it might be the stray electro magnetic field from the power cord creating a small voltage through your hands which then goes to ground on the DAC chassis (which is grounded) and that is what you are feeling. A properly shielded power cord (with the shield connected to earth) should minimise or or avoid this.

@Rob Watts Have you had any experience with this with your Daves? Slight "current flowing" feeling when touching Dave's chassis? Can the reason be the one mentioned by @Triode User above?

 

[Rob Watts]

Yes and I have posted on it before - it happens too with my lap-top, and it's because the gear is not earthed. Un-earthed equipment has a leakage current, and when you touch a anodized surface, much of the time it is isolated; but occasionally, the anodizing is not fully isolated, so the leakage current discharges through your finger giving you the tingle; if you touch a grounded contact it discharges the stray capacitance immediately and does not tingle. It's perfectly safe, as Dave's PSU is a medical grade PSU with low leakage.

 

[doraymon]

Yes and I have posted on it before - it happens too with my lap-top, and it's because the gear is not earthed. Un-earthed equipment has a leakage current, and when you touch a anodized surface, much of the time it is isolated; but occasionally, the anodizing is not fully isolated, so the leakage current discharges through your finger giving you the tingle; if you touch a grounded contact it discharges the stray capacitance immediately and does not tingle. It's perfectly safe, as Dave's PSU is a medical grade PSU with low leakage.

Thanks, but this doesn't explain why it happens with some power cords and not with others.
Or maybe is a matter of where I touch the chassis?

 

[Rob Watts]

Maybe some power cords are grounded some not? It's only anodized surfaces that tingle, such as Dave's chassis. Fully conductive surfaces are fine. I only get the issue in some hotels in Japan or USA, when earthing is not available. And it's the leakage current from my whole mobile rig - chargers, M scalers, Dave, and lap-top PSU's.

 

[AndrewOld]

Maybe some power cords are grounded some not? It's only anodized surfaces that tingle, such as Dave's chassis. Fully conductive surfaces are fine. I only get the issue in some hotels in Japan or USA, when earthing is not available. And it's the leakage current from my whole mobile rig - chargers, M scalers, Dave, and lap-top PSU's.

M Scalers? In your mobile rig? There is hope!!