CHORD ELECTRONICS DAVE

[hibo2]

I agree with your comments. I justified the purchase of Dave because of its sound and that it was both Dac and Pre. Would I pay twice as much for a Dave with incrementally improved sound? No. It may be convenient for Chord to bung an M scaler into CD transports sitting on the shelf, the kill two birds with one stone philosophy, but not what most customers want. They would sell many more M scalers if the price was more realistic. Sure this is cutting edge tech now but for how long. I've been wondering how this tech relates to Hq player. Does anyone have experience of how redbook sounds upsampled through HQ player to a T+A Dac compared to upsampling through M scaler to Dave?

Martin.

 

[miketlse]

That's a good point. It kind of implies that the marginal cost of the M Scaler is £1500. So, as you say, add a (simpler) box ... (simpler) power supply ...

Might it not be really sensible for Chord to consider the stand alone M Scaler soon, given the way Brexit is pushing prices up and other factors seem to be pushing component deliveries out.

At the end of the day if someone could give me a single good engineering reason why an M Scaler should be bundled with a cd mechanism I will buy a Blu2.

Until then, I live in hope. Surely good sense will prevail.

Have you ever paused to think that it could well have been cheaper to introduce the M Scaler as part of the Blu2 (taking advantage of the already designed casework and power supply, etc) product, rather than design a separate M Scaler case? That would seem to be a single good engineering reason to me.

I am sure that if you keep protesting for a few more years, then John Franks will eventually offer to provide you with the M Scaler kit of parts. You can then drill a few holes in an old tobacco tin, and assemble everything together, and proudly show the resulting photos on Head-Fi.
I confidently predict that the overall cost will exceed £1500.

Now keep your promise and buy a Blu2.

 

[rkt31]

HQ player not even close to mojo or hugo. I have tested HQ player with best setting ie sinc setting and upsampled to maximum rate 768 khz feeding to mojo. a redbook file straight to mojo sounded lot smoother and clearer. HQ player is no match to m scalar

 

[Clive101]

Have you ever paused to think that it could well have been cheaper to introduce the M Scaler as part of the Blu2 (taking advantage of the already designed casework and power supply, etc) product, rather than design a separate M Scaler case? That would seem to be a single good engineering reason to me.

I am sure that if you keep protesting for a few more years, then John Franks will eventually offer to provide you with the M Scaler kit of parts. You can then drill a few holes in an old tobacco tin, and assemble everything together, and proudly show the resulting photos on Head-Fi.
I confidently predict that the overall cost will exceed £1500.

Now keep your promise and buy a Blu2.

The Blu Mk2 does have a different box that is why the Blu mk 1 cannot be upgraded see the earlier posts so it seems Andrew still can sit on the fence. The £1500 includes this modification..!

£1500.00 plus box plus profit etc yes more but how much if its ever produced..?

I am still on the fence enjoying Dave and found other improvements for Dave. Will I purchase a new Blu MK2 ..?

 

[Malcyg]

That's a good point. It kind of implies that the marginal cost of the M Scaler is £1500. So, as you say, add a (simpler) box ... (simpler) power supply ...
.

Hmmm, I'm guessing that you have no experience of running a business?

I don't deny the attraction of a standalone M Scaler, and that would have been my preference. In fact, when Blu II was first announced with BNC input only, I had no interest in it at all. Once USB was added, it became viable for me and, presumably, several others, but I totally understand those who have no interest in CD. It is probably 5% or less of my playing time.

But a standalone M Scaler will need more inputs and a more mature operating system than Blu II to accommodate that. It will likely come in a case like the Dave and also, possibly have a screen similar to Dave in order to give clear information as to which inputs are playing at what resolution etc. Given that it uses a chipset which is more advanced than Dave and the fact that Chord have to recover their development costs, why do you believe that a standalone unit will cost any less than Dave? And how much is Dave? About the same as Blu II. I think a cut price M Scaler is just wishful thinking, especially given the narrow range of its target market.

By the way, you can easily switch input sources on the Dave with the remote control, so I don't understand your point on that. I find it to be the perfect way to make A/B comparisons because you can switch sources seamlessly whilst playing the same music on different sources.

 

[Triode User]

Hmmm, I'm guessing that you have no experience of running a business?

I don't deny the attraction of a standalone M Scaler, and that would have been my preference. In fact, when Blu II was first announced with BNC input only, I had no interest in it at all. Once USB was added, it became viable for me and, presumably, several others, but I totally understand those who have no interest in CD. It is probably 5% or less of my playing time.

But a standalone M Scaler will need more inputs and a more mature operating system than Blu II to accommodate that. It will likely come in a case like the Dave and also, possibly have a screen similar to Dave in order to give clear information as to which inputs are playing at what resolution etc. Given that it uses a chipset which is more advanced than Dave and the fact that Chord have to recover their development costs, why do you believe that a standalone unit will cost any less than Dave? And how much is Dave? About the same as Blu II. I think a cut price M Scaler is just wishful thinking, especially given the narrow range of its target market.

By the way, you can easily switch input sources on the Dave with the remote control, so I don't understand your point on that. I find it to be the perfect way to make A/B comparisons because you can switch sources seamlessly whilst playing the same music on different sources.

I agree with everything that MalcyG has said (sorry Malc for attributing your post to someone else).

I would expect a stand alone MScaler with more inputs etc to be at or near Dave price.

Having had my Blu2 for about 3 weeks now I would say that price would also equate to the improvement in sound.

Guys, dream on if you think Chord will do a cheap MScaler.

 

[AndrewOld]

Hmmm, I'm guessing that you have no experience of running a business?

Not running one, but I do have over 25 years experience working for a high-end consumer electronics company for whom a DAVE level price would represent a mid-priced product,
so I do have some non-trivial knowledge and insight into how electronics pricing and manufacture work. What is your experience of high-end consumer electronics manufacture?

But a standalone M Scaler will need more inputs and a more mature operating system than Blu II to accommodate that. It will likely come in a case like the Dave and also, possibly have a screen similar to Dave in order to give clear information as to which inputs are playing at what resolution etc. Given that it uses a chipset which is more advanced than Dave and the fact that Chord have to recover their development costs, why do you believe that a standalone unit will cost any less than Dave? And how much is Dave? About the same as Blu II. I think a cut price M Scaler is just wishful thinking, especially given the narrow range of its target market.

The Blu2 already has displays and controls for the CD mech, as well as a complex hinged lid and case. Dropping all this must, imo, make a substantial saving on the BOM cost. Adding another input or two should make very little difference. The price of the Blu2 did not go up when a USB input was added late in the day. And without a CD mech and all the associated electronics, power supplies, and clocking complexity there is surely a reasonable expectation of squeezing a little more performance from the M Scaler in a stand-alone configuration.

And as for recovering development costs, a stand alone M Scaler would enable the development costs of the M Scaler to be spread over more units, since there are many people who would buy it but won't buy a Blu2.

By the way, you can easily switch input sources on the Dave with the remote control

No you can't. There is no button on the remote that will immediately select, say, the USB input, or Opt1. You have to know what state the DAVE is in - which is not at all obvious if you use Display Mode 4 - and then you need to arrow through the inputs which depends on knowing what order they are in and possibly getting annoyed by sound coming from an unwanted intervening input. The Blu2 doesn't seem to have directly selectable inputs either - in fact, can you even scroll through them, or are you just dependant on some priority strategy? How acceptable is that for the money being asked?

 

[AndrewOld]

Guys, dream on if you think Chord will do a cheap MScaler.

So the M Scaler inputs on the Hugo2 are for what? An £8.5k CD player? Dream on yourself!

 

[Malcyg]

Not running one,

That does show to be honest.

Just a suggestion, but why not start a fresh thread headed 'Standalone M Scaler - we want it now and we want it cheap' and expound your views on that? Anyone else who is interested in comments about either Dave or Blu II can continue here without being interrupted by your whinging and cristiscism of Chord and their development strategy - which I'm sure I can't be alone in finding unnecessary and slightly offensive.

I think that it is refreshing and a privilege that Rob and John give us the benefit of their wisdom and insight on this forum and they must have much cooler heads than me the way that they let some of the constant sniping pass and continue to contribute.

 

[Crgreen]

These issues have been debated on previous occasions, with no consensus having been reached. I think it likely that if Chord was starting from a clean slate, a stand-alone M-scaler would have been the logical choice. But as we know, that isn't how the product development happened, and the real issues are, given that, whether an m-scaler will be made available as a seperate product, and how long are you prepared to wait? It probably will happen at some point, but the waiting involves weighing financial and other considerations, and issues currently unknowable, to which each individual can only provide an answer. Some can't wait, others can. The rest is silence.

 

[Triode User]

So the M Scaler inputs on the Hugo2 are for what? An £8.5k CD player? Dream on yourself!

Well initially a Blu2 can be connected to the Hugo2. No doubt in due course a version of the MScaler or something similar might be available in the Hugo2 lineup but a best guess will be that that this will not be in the same league as the Blu2 MScaler just in the same way that Hugo2 is not in the same league as a Dave.

 

[Malcyg]

Crgreen and Triode are both probably quite close to the truth.

 

[jlbrach]

the blu 2 is what is being brought to market and that is taking long enough.....for the time being it is silly to continue to discuss something that isn't even on the horizon...lets wait to receive the blu 2 before we speak of its successor

 

[Triode User]

the blu 2 is what is being brought to market and that is taking long enough.....for the time being it is silly to continue to discuss something that isn't even on the horizon...lets wait to receive the blu 2 before we speak of its successor

But but but I HAVE it!!!!!

 

[Hummer25]

Having listened to the Blu2 m-scaler with DAVE I would not say the improvement is subtle. It is almost as big a jump as DAVE was when it was first launched.

The soundstage is massive and the depth with instrument,vocal placement is enhanced considerably. Overall there is a super smooth, fatigue free analog feel to the sound.

Very impressive.