[Triode User]

You guys are correct is saying that at this level it is really down to personal preference. I have not heard the Naim but I have heard a lot of top end gear and I own a Dave. For me the Dave is the best I have heard and I am not particularly bothered if others do not score it more highly. Accuracy is a difficult thing to pin down but I have long ago learned to trust my own ears and to go with what seems best to me. It is my money after all. Maybe I just prefer the Dave sound rather than it being better. Who knows.

 

[organicmac]

As a recent subscriber to HiFi Critic and a very happy DAVE owner, I find much of what appears in HiFi Critic to be entertaining but highly idiosyncratic and with a very strong NAIM preference. I did not feel their 'review' of DAVE was careful or showed much serious attempt to analyse its capabilities fairly so I won't take it too seriously.

 

[Crgreen]

It's also very expensive. It's USP appears to be that there's no advertising, which is reflected in the price. I imagine most people would be happy paying less and skimming over the advertising pages.

 

[JaZZ]

I think these might be two slightly different senses of "timing". In respect of Naim gear, it's an emphasis on rhythm and phrasing, in the past possibly at the expense of other hi-fi factors like timbre and depth. I get the impression that Rob's talking about something rather more technical, although it does have an effect on such features, but also timbral accuracy and layering. Timing is something for which Martin Colloms has provided a sepertate rating for some years now. It's also possible that prolonged exposure to Naim kit will mean that most other brands don't quite match in that respect. As to which is more "accurate", that's another issue.

 
I think your description is spot on. Rob's timing refers to instant starts and stops of transients thanks to the multi-tap WTA filter with greatly reduced smearing effects in the audio band, whereas the accentuated timing attributed to Naim DACs has more to do with the classic «pace, rhythm and timing» (PRAT).

 

[music1st]

   
I think your description is spot on. Rob's timing refers to instant starts and stops of transients thanks to the multi-tap WTA filter with greatly reduced smearing effects in the audio band, whereas the accentuated timing attributed to Naim DACs has more to do with the classic «pace, rhythm and timing» (PRAT).

 
OK What is the technical difference between the WTA implementation and the "exaqgerated" PRAT that seem ubiquitous in all Naim Gear.
 
By the way, it would not surprise me if the Naim gear does ultimately exaggerate pace rhythm and timing. although I have never heard their gear in anything but show conditions.
 
One would think that by now, it would have occurred to those that review audio, that the famous Naim P.R.A.T which is virtually unique to the brand yet shared by almost none of their competitors, might be artificial in nature.
 
What's in a Naim indeed.

 

[Mojo ideas]

OK What is the technical difference between the WTA implementation and the "exaqgerated" PRAT that seem ubiquitous in all Naim Gear.

By the way, it would not surprise me if the Naim gear does ultimately exaggerate pace rhythm and timing. although I have never heard their gear in anything but show conditions.

One would think that by now, it would have occurred to those that review audio, that the famous Naim P.R.A.T which is virtually unique to the brand yet shared by almost none of their competitors, might be artificial in nature.

What's in a Naim indeed.

Indeed what is in a Naim I've been in this business a long time and I have a long memory,I can recall many years ago a particular well respected but rather pompous and enfactic reviewer. I won't name, giving a simply glorious review to a particular rather nondescript black box power amplifier. there was some talk at the time as to his involvement in the project . I had a chance to ask him directly. He denied any involment at all. However years passed and one day years later he offered for me to buy from him secondhand an Audio precision test system along with a rather old computer to control it. However on that computer lay some long forgotten files in them was the complete design for that same amplifier, he'd praised and reviewed so lavishly. I'm not saying he was totally corrupt and should never be trusted but it did make me think at that time to be wary of that particular reviewer all reviewers are not the same some work to the highest standards of integrity others unfortunately do not.

 

[514077]

Just wondering:  PRAT?

 

[Mediahound]

  Just wondering:  PRAT?

See:
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/371771/what-is-prat

 

[JaZZ]

 

  I think your description is spot on. Rob's timing refers to instant starts and stops of transients thanks to the multi-tap WTA filter with greatly reduced smearing effects in the audio band, whereas the accentuated timing attributed to Naim DACs has more to do with the classic «pace, rhythm and timing» (PRAT).

 
OK What is the technical difference between the WTA implementation and the "exaqgerated" PRAT that seem ubiquitous in all Naim Gear.
 
By the way, it would not surprise me if the Naim gear does ultimately exaggerate pace rhythm and timing. although I have never heard their gear in anything but show conditions.
 
One would think that by now, it would have occurred to those that review audio, that the famous Naim P.R.A.T which is virtually unique to the brand yet shared by almost none of their competitors, might be artificial in nature.
 
What's in a Naim indeed.

 
To be honest, I don't think I've ever heard Naim gear. And if I had, I'd still have no idea what the cause of the specific Naim PRAT is. I don't even know if it's indeed an exaggeration.

 

[514077]

 

  Just wondering:  PRAT?

See:
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/371771/what-is-prat

Thanks for that.  Think I'll stick with Chord.  From what I got from that thread, it seems like a slippery term.

 

[Christer]

   
To be honest, I don't think I've ever heard Naim gear. And if I had, I'd still have no idea what the cause of the specific Naim PRAT is. I don't even know if it's indeed an exaggeration.

Imho what really matters is RESOLUTION, at all levels, and in all aspects of the term, ie how well a product resolves all the information captured at the recording sessions.
PRAT is simply yet another "hyped term" invented by reviewers who are mainly listening to pop /rock music and bears little reference to real acoustic music and the most accurate reproduction of complex symphonic and full scale operatic music which again imho is still the ONLY material that will REALLY be able to  sort "the wheat from the chaff".
In NAIM's defence I have to say that although mainly focussed on pop/rock they have also made some pretty good recordings of acoustic music, at least in the days of  analogue recordings.
Like for example MF and Gryphon ,they have also grasped the importance of all the  power needed to accurately reproduce large scale acoustic music and make some of the most powerful amps in the business.
But Dave is one of  few consumer DACs I have auditioned that comes very close to mic feed via headphones directly connected to it.

 

[7ryder]

Indeed what is in a Naim I've been in this business a long time and I have a long memory,I can recall many years ago a particular well respected but rather pompous and enfactic reviewer. I won't name, giving a simply glorious review to a particular rather nondescript black box power amplifier. there was some talk at the time as to his involvement in the project . I had a chance to ask him directly. He denied any involment at all. However years passed and one day years later he offered for me to buy from him secondhand an Audio precision test system along with a rather old computer to control it. However on that computer lay some long forgotten files in them was the complete design for that same amplifier, he'd praised and reviewed so lavishly. I'm not saying he was totally corrupt and should never be trusted but it did make me think at that time to be wary of that particular reviewer all reviewers are not the same some work to the highest standards of integrity others unfortunately do not.

While I'm not sure what this has to do with Naim and PRAT, given that reviewers and manufacturers know each other so well and there is the old boys network in your industry, I'm not surprised

 

[rkt31]

prat is mainly related with signature of sound and it has nothing to do with correct starting and stopping of notes. chord dacs have that correct timing of notes courtesy WTA ( watts time aligned algorithm) using large number of taps . take an example of mojo which has that correct timing of notes which you can instantly feel through a well recorded piano piece of music , still the overall sound signature of mojo is on warmish side. so prat in a way a sound signature which may or may not have correct timing of notes but has a bit specific sound signature which mimics a slight smily EQ sound, slightly less mid bass and slightly accentuated high frequencies.

 

[x RELIC x]

WTA= Watts Transient Aligned

 

[tunes]

Presumably because Chord plan to release the 2Go module, which will do for the Hugo 2, what the Poly will do for the Hugo 2. Would have to have at least 400GB of storage and ideally run from SD cards and not a hard drive.

There have already been posts requesting that the 2Go includes, SD cards, and SSD memory, so you might as well request any functionality that you want included, whilst the 2Go is still on the drawing board.
Chord listened to the feedback after CES, and do regard these headfi threads as a valuable source of feedback, that benefits their product designs.

Until the Hugo poly comes out, what is the best portable solution to send FLAC files from a DAP type device with at least 400 GB of storage preferably on solid state microSD cards and optical out to the Huho2. It would have to have a user friendly interface like iTunes and be rechargable. If the HUGO 2 sounds much better than my QP1R then no point keeping it just as a storage device. Anyone have any ideas. If it could have Wifi for streaming TIDAL to the HUGO2, even better.