[flyte3333]

Wow, thanks for sharing! Have you gotten any response back from Chord?

Still in progress.

 

[jscmd2000]

Still in progress.

That was more than 2 weeks ago... still no response or are they working on a solution?

 

[flyte3333]

That was more than 2 weeks ago... still no response or are they working on a solution?

As things are still progress it's not fair for me to go into the details while things are still in progress at the moment.

 

[audio_1]

Like you said, the supplied toslink optical cable does play 24/192 files but with lots of static... and the display also flickers erratically. Then I realized I was not inserting the other upgrade toslink cables fully into the Dave (thank you!). The AQ vodka and supernova 7 toslink cables do seems to play 24/192 files but with the same static and flickering of display. It seems like the static and flickering are coming from bad connection at the Dave optical input slot since manipulation at that connection can improve or worsen the static/flickering... just not reliably. I cannot play to the listenable level.

I remember reading in this thread that there is a known problem with the optical input design on the Dave... seems absurd that the Hugo 2 that costs only a fraction of the Dave doesn't have this problem but the Dave does. Is there any remedy for fixing this problem? Do you think this is something I should ask Chord for help on? I only purchased it 4-5 months ago.

The easiest solution is to get a toslink cable with a small connector, like the one supplied with the Dave. If the cable supplied with Dave is not long enough, I would ask Chord who manufactured it and is it guaranteed to 24/192. It is then just a matter of getting a longer cable from the same manufacturer.

 

[Jawed]

DAVE has two optical inputs. Presumably you guys having problems have tried both inputs?

 

[jscmd2000]

Yes, both inputs with identical problem.

 

[flyte3333]

DAVE has two optical inputs. Presumably you guys having problems have tried both inputs?

Yes both for me too.

 

[Jawed]

I borrowed a friend's Hugo 2 to see if my cheap 2m optical cable (which won't work with more than 96KHz audio) works better in Hugo 2. It was ever so slightly better:

• on DAVE with 192KHz sample rate music playing, there's about a second of clicks followed by silence
  
• on DAVE with no music playing and 192KHz sample rate as the last attempted playback there's a fury of static (display rapidly flickering through various data rates and "no input"), which changed as I manipulated the cable. Unplugging the cable and then re-plugging it, stopped the fury of static.
• on Hugo 2 there were no clicks or static, just silence. Music never played with the sample rate set to 192KHz.

It seems to me that DAVE is slightly less well behaved with a poor quality optical connection than Hugo 2: it attempts to lock, fails, and produces clicks and static for as long as it attempts to lock on.

I was wondering if Hugo 2 would play 192KHz music from this bad cable, showing significantly more tolerance, but no.

I don't have my Mojo at home to try as another data point.

Now playing: Haux - All We've Known

 

[flyte3333]

I borrowed a friend's Hugo 2 to see if my cheap 2m optical cable (which won't work with more than 96KHz audio) works better in Hugo 2. It was ever so slightly better:

• on DAVE with 192KHz sample rate music playing, there's about a second of clicks followed by silence
  
• on DAVE with no music playing and 192KHz sample rate as the last attempted playback there's a fury of static (display rapidly flickering through various data rates and "no input"), which changed as I manipulated the cable. Unplugging the cable and then re-plugging it, stopped the fury of static.
• on Hugo 2 there were no clicks or static, just silence. Music never played with the sample rate set to 192KHz.

It seems to me that DAVE is slightly less well behaved with a poor quality optical connection than Hugo 2: it attempts to lock, fails, and produces clicks and static for as long as it attempts to lock on.

I was wondering if Hugo 2 would play 192KHz music from this bad cable, showing significantly more tolerance, but no.

I don't have my Mojo at home to try as another data point.

Now playing: Haux - All We've Known

With my 2 ft glass fiber TOSlink cable I never had a click or pop or static or silence with Mojo for >12 months and Hugo2 for >6 months at 192kHz.

Flawless the whole time with Mojo and Hugo2 at 192kHz.

 

[Jawed]

Yes, the 1m optical cable that came with my DAVE is also perfect at 192KHz. Though I hardly use it since I've optimised my USB connection and used optical as a reference for sound quality only.

 

[tunes]

Is there a way to play the same FLAC file via different sources one using USB input and the other optical and compare AB rapidly to assess differences e.g. with ferrites and different USB cables????

 

[flyte3333]

An update. I had no issue reporting the issue I was having but there is a reason I didn't want to complain too much about background disciussions. Obviously it's always best to let 'the process' play out behind the scenes before jumping the gun and kicking up a fuss publicly.

Initially I saw some correspondence from Chord to the dealer about how I have things wrong about TOSlink sounding best and that USB is the best because it's galvanically isolated and allows for higher sample rates... I didn't say anything but sorry no, I'm not changing my personal input preference of TOSlink (which I've enjoyed with Mojo for 12 months and Hugo2 for 6 months) for all the reasons that many of us have discussed here with Rob...

Anyway I was more interested in having them reproduce the issue at their end than getting advice on which input I should listen to....

After some time they said they had 24/192 working and I got a photo showing 192kHz working. Naturally the next question I had is what source was used because my source (and entire chain from software to source to TOSlink cable) worked flawless at 192kHz with Mojo and Hugo2. They mentioned a Bluesound Node 2 and Oppo player was used and with the STOCK plastic cable that comes with Dave.

I'm a pretty fair and reasonable guy so the fair thing for me to do is get the unit back and obviously try different sources, especially the same sources they tested. I wouldn't have any issues buying a Bluesound Node 2 (used) if that solved the issue - since they are RoonReady endpoints.

In the mean time I started to think about why the source may work with multiple DACs at 192kHz but fail with Dave. I know there's been mentions of the TOSlink input connectors being a little more fussy than Mojo and Hugo2 and some people have had to modify their TOSlink cable connectors to work with Dave at 192kHz. I had tried that with a Lifatec cable to no available, which doesn't rule out the fussiness but there's only so much hacking/mods I can do with TOSlink cables. More importantly, the dealer had the stock TOSlink cable that came with Dave working at 192kHz with those sources.

So I thought maybe it's also signal integrity (SI) thing. Maybe the SI of my USB to TOSlink converter isn't strong/good enough for Dave (it also perhaps ties in with the connector fitting issues, perhaps?). So maybe with a better/strong optical source (better SI), as the dealer tested, things would work better.

I remembered I had a Pi2Design/Rasberry Pi Roon endpoint that features a pair of low jitter NDK oscillators, TX179 TOSLINK Transmitter and all powered by an ultra low noise LT3042.

http://www.pi2design.com/502dac.html

I hadn't tested this with Dave before because it's been hidden in a drawer for a long while but this should be a high quality optical source with great signal integrity.

So before getting a used Node 2 I thought why not setup this Pi3 Roon endpoint and try and see if a better quality TOSlink source works better with Dave.

The answer is yes!

So while a Hugo2 and Mojo work fine with the USB to TOSlink converter that I had at 192kHz, Dave's TOSlink input being more fussy needed an even better optical source.

Now using this source I tested the other TOSlink cables I had, just for some more personal information/datapoints. The glass fiber Lifatec still doesn't work at 192kHz and I think this is related to the connector not going deep enough into Dave. RIP to my Lifatec cable with Dave sadly.

My Analysis Plus $50 plastic fiber Toslink cable works at 192kHz with Dave. It has big metal protective shells on the ends but they un-screw (threaded connector) so I just un-screwed enough to get it the inside connector clicking into Dave. It's working nicely. It's apparently 'medical grade plastic fiber' whatever that means. Most importantly, it's not too expensive and works flawlessly at 192Hz with Dave.

I'll get a SysConcept higher strand plastic fiber which is also well regarded, soon. They're reasonably priced and look slim and thin. You can order without a shell too, which is probably smart for use with Dave.

I don't really want to spend money on more expensive USB to TOSlink converters because they're still a risk of not working, unless someone has one that they can confirm works, even with Dave's stock plastic TOSlink cable?

So I'm using both of Dave's TOSlink inputs - #1 for my Pi3 Roon endpoint and #2 is my existing USB-to-TOSlink converter which is fine up to 96kHz (#2 is just for directing Mac audio output to Dave, for watching movies on Netflix etc).

I'll probably still get a used Node 2, since that has some other cool features that I could play with. I'll report back if that works but the dealer had it working so it should work.

It will be nice for us here, to share which Toslink sources work with Dave at 192Khz, that works with the stock plastic cable that comes with Dave. There would be many combinations of sources that work with some cables and not other cables, but keeping the stock plastic TOSlink cable that Dave comes with is probably a good reference/control.

I can confirm the Pi2Design/PI3 unit works as Roon and UPnP endpoints (running Moode OS) and I'll test a (used) Bluesound Node 2 and confirm later.

I don't know if any of my technical reasoning above has any validity but I can say with absolutely certainty that just having a TOSlink source (and complete chain) that works at 192kHz with Mojo and Hugo2 (and 3 other DACs I tested) isn't a guarantee to work with Dave.

Anyway after some stress and worry with my brand new expensive purchase I'm loving Dave again and very happy with TOSlink performance

Hope this helps others out there.

 

[ray-dude]

Is there a way to play the same FLAC file via different sources one using USB input and the other optical and compare AB rapidly to assess differences e.g. with ferrites and different USB cables????

Yes. When I was doing my massive mojo vs Hugo2 vs Dave comparisons, I used Roon and set up a zone for different usb outputs to each device. I then could quickly swap headphones between them (remembering to set the volume the same on all)

If you’re testing multiple inputs you can do the same if your source supports it. For example, my older Mac laptops had optical out and multiple usb out. You could quickly switch between these as the same song is playing

A quick note: if you’re testing something that isolates noise, you need to make sure you do t have multiple things plugged in. That is, if you’re testing optical, don’t have usb plugged in as same time. Any noise from usb will still be there, even if you’re listening to optical input.

 

[Rob Watts]

An update. I had no issue reporting the issue I was having but there is a reason I didn't want to complain too much about background disciussions. Obviously it's always best to let 'the process' play out behind the scenes before jumping the gun and kicking up a fuss publicly.

Initially I saw some correspondence from Chord to the dealer about how I have things wrong about TOSlink sounding best and that USB is the best because it's galvanically isolated and allows for higher sample rates... I didn't say anything but sorry no, I'm not changing my personal input preference of TOSlink (which I've enjoyed with Mojo for 12 months and Hugo2 for 6 months) for all the reasons that many of us have discussed here with Rob...

Anyway I was more interested in having them reproduce the issue at their end than getting advice on which input I should listen to....

After some time they said they had 24/192 working and I got a photo showing 192kHz working. Naturally the next question I had is what source was used because my source (and entire chain from software to source to TOSlink cable) worked flawless at 192kHz with Mojo and Hugo2. They mentioned a Bluesound Node 2 and Oppo player was used and with the STOCK plastic cable that comes with Dave.

I'm a pretty fair and reasonable guy so the fair thing for me to do is get the unit back and obviously try different sources, especially the same sources they tested. I wouldn't have any issues buying a Bluesound Node 2 (used) if that solved the issue - since they are RoonReady endpoints.

In the mean time I started to think about why the source may work with multiple DACs at 192kHz but fail with Dave. I know there's been mentions of the TOSlink input connectors being a little more fussy than Mojo and Hugo2 and some people have had to modify their TOSlink cable connectors to work with Dave at 192kHz. I had tried that with a Lifatec cable to no available, which doesn't rule out the fussiness but there's only so much hacking/mods I can do with TOSlink cables. More importantly, the dealer had the stock TOSlink cable that came with Dave working at 192kHz with those sources.

So I thought maybe it's also signal integrity (SI) thing. Maybe the SI of my USB to TOSlink converter isn't strong/good enough for Dave (it also perhaps ties in with the connector fitting issues, perhaps?). So maybe with a better/strong optical source (better SI), as the dealer tested, things would work better.

I remembered I had a Pi2Design/Rasberry Pi Roon endpoint that features a pair of low jitter NDK oscillators, TX179 TOSLINK Transmitter and all powered by an ultra low noise LT3042.

http://www.pi2design.com/502dac.html

I hadn't tested this with Dave before because it's been hidden in a drawer for a long while but this should be a high quality optical source with great signal integrity.

So before getting a used Node 2 I thought why not setup this Pi3 Roon endpoint and try and see if a better quality TOSlink source works better with Dave.

The answer is yes!

So while a Hugo2 and Mojo work fine with the USB to TOSlink converter that I had at 192kHz, Dave's TOSlink input being more fussy needed an even better optical source.

Now using this source I tested the other TOSlink cables I had, just for some more personal information/datapoints. The glass fiber Lifatec still doesn't work at 192kHz and I think this is related to the connector not going deep enough into Dave. RIP to my Lifatec cable with Dave sadly.

My Analysis Plus $50 plastic fiber Toslink cable works at 192kHz with Dave. It has big metal protective shells on the ends but they un-screw (threaded connector) so I just un-screwed enough to get it the inside connector clicking into Dave. It's working nicely. It's apparently 'medical grade plastic fiber' whatever that means. Most importantly, it's not too expensive and works flawlessly at 192Hz with Dave.

I'll get a SysConcept higher strand plastic fiber which is also well regarded, soon. They're reasonably priced and look slim and thin. You can order without a shell too, which is probably smart for use with Dave.

I don't really want to spend money on more expensive USB to TOSlink converters because they're still a risk of not working, unless someone has one that they can confirm works, even with Dave's stock plastic TOSlink cable?

So I'm using both of Dave's TOSlink inputs - #1 for my Pi3 Roon endpoint and #2 is my existing USB-to-TOSlink converter which is fine up to 96kHz (#2 is just for directing Mac audio output to Dave, for watching movies on Netflix etc).

I'll probably still get a used Node 2, since that has some other cool features that I could play with. I'll report back if that works but the dealer had it working so it should work.

It will be nice for us here, to share which Toslink sources work with Dave at 192Khz, that works with the stock plastic cable that comes with Dave. There would be many combinations of sources that work with some cables and not other cables, but keeping the stock plastic TOSlink cable that Dave comes with is probably a good reference/control.

I can confirm the Pi2Design/PI3 unit works as Roon and UPnP endpoints (running Moode OS) and I'll test a (used) Bluesound Node 2 and confirm later.

I don't know if any of my technical reasoning above has any validity but I can say with absolutely certainty that just having a TOSlink source (and complete chain) that works at 192kHz with Mojo and Hugo2 (and 3 other DACs I tested) isn't a guarantee to work with Dave.

Anyway after some stress and worry with my brand new expensive purchase I'm loving Dave again and very happy with TOSlink performance

Hope this helps others out there.

The TX 179 from Toshiba were very good TX, and the matching RX were also v good - you could throw any cable on it, and it would work at 192k.

Unfortunately, around 3 or 4 years ago, Toshiba stopped making Toslink... The replacements RX and TX although rated at the same bit rate are not as good; this is the reason why most DAC companies (AP as well) has withdrawn support for 192k, as conventional SPDIF RX can't cope with the fact that the new parts have asymmetric rise and fall edges. My SPDIF rx, built into the FPGA, means that I can allow for this, as it auto compensates for this.

So we can get 192k to work, but everything has to be in good condition, particularly the optical TX, for which we have no control over.

Its a huge shame that Toshiba have stopped making these parts...

 

[flyte3333]

The TX 179 from Toshiba were very good TX, and the matching RX were also v good - you could throw any cable on it, and it would work at 192k.

Unfortunately, around 3 or 4 years ago, Toshiba stopped making Toslink... The replacements RX and TX although rated at the same bit rate are not as good; this is the reason why most DAC companies (AP as well) has withdrawn support for 192k, as conventional SPDIF RX can't cope with the fact that the new parts have asymmetric rise and fall edges. My SPDIF rx, built into the FPGA, means that I can allow for this, as it auto compensates for this.

So we can get 192k to work, but everything has to be in good condition, particularly the optical TX, for which we have no control over.

Its a huge shame that Toshiba have stopped making these parts...

Cheers Rob and all is good now.

But what's the reason a few of us are reporting bit perfect 192kHz optical playback working fine with Mojo and Hugo2 but the exact same chain fails with Dave?

That's the only thing puzzling.

What's with Dave's RX fussiness? Does Dave use a different RX to Mojo and Hugo2?