CHORD ELECTRONICS DAVE
Aug 6, 2017 at 4:29 AM Post #8,971 of 25,901
I build my own semi rigid bnc cables, proper shielding, accurate impedance used in military applications
Would you do me a favor and try your 1 meter length see if there is a difference and report back? I,m limited to 5' lengths but don't want a long length unless there is a sonic advantage
Best
Marc

Ummn, I haven't had time for the last couple of months and I suspect it might need a few hours of listening. Don't expect a report soon. There is also no pressing need as I am very happy with the sound. Higher up on my 'to do' list was to design and make a set of speaker cables that I was happy with. That has been making much biggger sound gains.

If you build your own bnc how about you build two pairs and report back?
 
Aug 6, 2017 at 4:40 AM Post #8,972 of 25,901
Ummn, I haven't had time for the last couple of months and I suspect it might need a few hours of listening. Don't expect a report soon. There is also no pressing need as I am very happy with the sound. Higher up on my 'to do' list was to design and make a set of speaker cables that I was happy with. That has been making much biggger sound gains.

If you build your own bnc how about you build two pairs and report back?
I could do that but was hoping for someone who had done the experiment
BTW I'm using Spectral amps they respond well to Kimber 8tc speaker cable
 
Aug 6, 2017 at 7:34 AM Post #8,973 of 25,901
Assuming that we are not of the subjective "whatever power conditioner sounds best" in my system school (which is totally legitimate), I have read that there are two schools of thought on what influences sound the most with power products. One school is that incoming power is noisy so you need a power conditioner (like Torus) to clean up the power (and maybe give it a voltage boost). The downside is to make sure your conditioner has enough power to drive all your products. Another school (with John Swenson, designer of microRendu & LPS-1) says the more important factor is actually leakage currents from ground loops. This is low level high frequency noise that gets from one component to another. Proper galvanic isolation can help reduce this kind of noise but is never perfect. The solution is to make sure your power cables are of the lowest possible impedance and to have all your connected equipments connected to the same power bar so that the impedance between components' power supplies are of the lowest impedance. By keeping the impedance low, the voltage of this leakage current from ground loops would remain as low as possible so you get less noise moving from component to component. Any power conditioner that accepts multiple inputs would generally increase the impedance. Swenson's ideal solution would be to have a humongous torroid transformer like Torus as the power source and then you plug in a simpler power bar to this Torus and all your components are plugged into this same power bar to keep the impedance low. But if we can't all do that so his argument is that for high-end products like DAVE, the power supply noise filtering is already excellent so leakage currents from ground loops plays a much more important role than AC power noise.

I personally owned a 5A Torus and everything is plugged into it except my amplifier and subwoofers. After trying out Swenson's LPS-1, I had a change of heart. I removed the Torus, and got a Nordost QB8 (which is basically a ridiculously overpriced power bar) and simply plug everything including my amplifier and subwoofers into it. And in my mind, I think the sound is better through a simple power bar. Obviously, I would love to be able to install a 20-40A Torus unit so that I can plug the power bar into that unit to get the cleanest possible power. But I personally think getting everything into the same power bar and using lowest impedance power cable we can afford is the better way to go for better sound. I also think it's the reason why I don't hear much difference between USB tweaks.

Obviously, your mileage may vary. And ultimately, you should buy what sounds best to you.

Thank you for the information.
One thing I did try was a power bar with a very expensive power cable the Dave system being plugged into the power bar and I had a very good result.
I ended up with the using a power conditioner as the SQ was better and I had the option of AVR ( automatic voltage control ).
I will try as you suggest a power bar with the Torus and see what happens it will be a while but will report back.
"Torus Power attenuates both Differential Mode (L-N) and Common Mode (G-N) noise" quoted from Torus, does this do the same as you suggest in the QB8 ...?
 
Aug 6, 2017 at 11:30 AM Post #8,974 of 25,901
I have 1m and 1.5m versions of the same cable and have meant to try to see if there is a difference. I just haven't got around to it and so use the 1.5m versions as there is a school of thought that longer is better to get more RF filtering. I would say get 1.5m and you can't be far wrong. And don't bother spending silly money. There is no need to spend over £50 for the pair.

What have you compared them with?
 
Aug 6, 2017 at 12:47 PM Post #8,975 of 25,901
QB8 is just Nordost AC distribution list. Nordost has a whole product line that are designed to alleviate the impact of poor quality AC.

http://www.nordost.com/qrt-power-products.php

With Torus Power Isolation Transformer you do not need more boxes. All in one.
 
Aug 6, 2017 at 9:43 PM Post #8,977 of 25,901
Just wondering if PAD Aquila is suitable for Dave? Or other alternative option, less than $1500?
Thanks.
 
Aug 7, 2017 at 2:16 AM Post #8,978 of 25,901
Just wondering if PAD Aquila is suitable for Dave? Or other alternative option, less than $1500?
Thanks.

That is 10% to 20% of the cost of a Blu2 that you are talking about for one power cable. Count up the $$ / ££ in the rest of your power cables and ask whether a Blu2 would improve the sound more. Then you can answer your own question.
:wink:
 
Aug 7, 2017 at 2:46 AM Post #8,979 of 25,901
That is 10% to 20% of the cost of a Blu2 that you are talking about for one power cable. Count up the $$ / ££ in the rest of your power cables and ask whether a Blu2 would improve the sound more. Then you can answer your own question.
:wink:
Indeed. LoL
 
Aug 7, 2017 at 2:56 AM Post #8,980 of 25,901
Indeed. LoL

Yep, and that is why I bought the Blu2 and use cheap kettle leads throughout. If I find myself looking at power leads or power conditioners or expensive USB leads etc etc I just remind myself of how far their purchase cost would go instead towards a new amplifier or whatever.

You have to keep your eye on the bigger picture instead of being attracted by glittery bling.
 
Aug 7, 2017 at 7:26 AM Post #8,981 of 25,901
Yep, and that is why I bought the Blu2 and use cheap kettle leads throughout. If I find myself looking at power leads or power conditioners or expensive USB leads etc etc I just remind myself of how far their purchase cost would go instead towards a new amplifier or whatever.

You have to keep your eye on the bigger picture instead of being attracted by glittery bling.
True but an investment in a used ps audio powerplant and some Pangea ac14 se II's pay dividends for years with changing equipment :)
 
Aug 15, 2017 at 12:57 AM Post #8,982 of 25,901
Yes, found the same problem with the network injecting noise into the system ( by accident ).

I am interested in this. Please can you elaborate ? In what way was your system improved? Presumably you couldn't hear the noise directly and it was affecting the quality of the music? If so in what way?

I am not trying to trip you up. I genuinely want to find out so I can look to my system to see if I can improve it.[/QUOTE]

I haven't looked this thread for a while so am a bit late on this point but, from my own experience, you can't hear noise or interference and you don't know that you have got it until you hear something better. When I got Blu II, I found that CD playback sounded better than files which suggested some issues around file playback that were not immediately apparent until compared directly to the Blu II CD. It wasn't the source as I was comparing ripped files vs the original CD from which the file was ripped, so the logical conclusion was that it was my Roon setup which was taking the data on a round trip though my network as well as using a PC which is hardly audio optimised. The effect of this wasn't clear though until I got the Blu II which highlighted the point. Cutting out the network and playing files directly into the DAC made a positive improvement and brought files up to the level of CD and even better with some.

For your own system, if your files sound as good as Blu II CD playback, then you're in good shape.

Edit: I'm not sure why the quote from Triode doesn't look right, probably because I shortened it a bit.
 
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Aug 15, 2017 at 1:54 AM Post #8,983 of 25,901
Edit: I'm not sure why the quote from Triode doesn't look right, probably because I shortened it a bit.

I think there was a problem with the quoting in my post which I have corrected.

Thanks for your explanation of noise and what it meant to your system. I also had been wondering how to tell if I have a problem or not. Also of course, ignorance is bliss. My system sounds great so at one level why would I go searching for a problem that I may or may not have?
 
Aug 15, 2017 at 3:23 AM Post #8,985 of 25,901
I am interested in this. Please can you elaborate ? In what way was your system improved? Presumably you couldn't hear the noise directly and it was affecting the quality of the music? If so in what way?

I am not trying to trip you up. I genuinely want to find out so I can look to my system to see if I can improve it.

I haven't looked this thread for a while so am a bit late on this point but, from my own experience, you can't hear noise or interference and you don't know that you have got it until you hear something better. When I got Blu II, I found that CD playback sounded better than files which suggested some issues around file playback that were not immediately apparent until compared directly to the Blu II CD. It wasn't the source as I was comparing ripped files vs the original CD from which the file was ripped, so the logical conclusion was that it was my Roon setup which was taking the data on a round trip though my network as well as using a PC which is hardly audio optimised. The effect of this wasn't clear though until I got the Blu II which highlighted the point. Cutting out the network and playing files directly into the DAC made a positive improvement and brought files up to the level of CD and even better with some.

For your own system, if your files sound as good as Blu II CD playback, then you're in good shape.

Edit: I'm not sure why the quote from Triode doesn't look right, probably because I shortened it a bit.[/QUOTE]

@Malcyg may i know what is the network do you have
 

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