CHORD ELECTRONICS DAVE
Jan 8, 2017 at 3:01 PM Post #6,631 of 25,883
 
Sorry for the stupid question, but I want to be sure that I understand well: when using a music server, I will get better sound with music server > blu2>DAVE than just music server>DAVE ? Correct ?

How the sound will be changed ? Even more details ( IMO DAVE already provides enough details) or better musicality and more "be there" ? What to expect from this 1 million taps ?


​+1
Excellent question.

We have run a few dems at CES here, and there have been a few choice words on the first 3 seconds of plugging the M scaler in. Very exciting!
 
It is not small, and absolutely everything improves.
 
Rob
 
Jan 8, 2017 at 3:01 PM Post #6,632 of 25,883
  As too Moore's law - hmm it's running out of steam, so the rate of progress is  much slower now.
 
Rob

 
 
Running out of steam?
 
Sounds more like Murphy's Law, to me!
 
 
Oh well, I'll guess everyone will just have to make do with a mere 1million taps, for the timebeing.
 
It's a hard life
biggrin.gif

 
Jan 8, 2017 at 3:15 PM Post #6,633 of 25,883
We have run a few dems at CES here, and there have been a few choice words on the first 3 seconds of plugging the M scaler in. Very exciting!

It is not small, and absolutely everything improves.

Rob


I predict that from now on, Chord or Blu2 to Digital, would be what Linn or the Linn Sondek was to analogue ... extracting the most information out of an old or tired format and making the world of music all the better for it!

I may be jumping the gun here, but well done, Chord!

:clap::clap::clap:
 
Jan 8, 2017 at 3:19 PM Post #6,634 of 25,883
  We have run a few dems at CES here, and there have been a few choice words on the first 3 seconds of plugging the M scaler in. Very exciting!
 
It is not small, and absolutely everything improves.
 
Rob

 
thanks Rob, but can you elaborate on "very exciting".   More details & precision ? more soul ? more musicality ? more intimate....
 
May be I will be banned from this forum to say this, but as of today, I prefer NAGRA & VITUS sound to DAVE because, despite the fact that DAVE may offer more details & precision, I find NAGRA & VITUS sound to be TO MY EARs more enjoyable, bringing more soul and presence to my music, with a more intimate presentation.
 
So... will Blu2 Mscaller move the DAVE sound more in the direction that I like (for me), which is definitively not a need for even more precision/details, but more...soul ?
 
Jan 8, 2017 at 3:31 PM Post #6,635 of 25,883
   
May be I will be banned from this forum to say this, but as of today, I prefer NAGRA & VITUS sound to DAVE because, despite the fact that DAVE may offer more details & precision, I find NAGRA & VITUS sound to be TO MY EARs more enjoyable, bringing more soul and presence to my music, with a more intimate presentation.


Heresy. Light the torches XD
 
Jan 8, 2017 at 3:44 PM Post #6,636 of 25,883
When Rob says that everything improves, I don't take him to mean that everything changes to the same degree. Obviously, these things are relative and recording dependent. I'm wondering how DAVE can be improved, but I'm prepared to take his word for it. In my (limited) experience, you don't know how things can be improved, until you hear them. Which is probably just as well, as otherwise you'd live in a permanent state of dissatisfaction and your audio system wouldn't be doing its job properly.
 
Jan 8, 2017 at 4:11 PM Post #6,638 of 25,883
Jan 8, 2017 at 4:29 PM Post #6,639 of 25,883
  Good news:
 

 
(see last line in last slide)
 
But maybe my excitement was premature. Three lines later:
 
The USB M scaler is actually Davina.

 
So Rob, can you comment? No separate WTA M scaler apart from Davina?

 
 
 
Last Summer and Autumn has been an incredibly exciting and busy journey for me; and I couldn't talk about it. Now that the Blu mk2 has been launched, I now am at liberty to talk about it - its been somewhat frustrating not being able to talk about it, as the improvements have been very exciting for me.
 
Here are the slides from the technical presentation I put together for the press, together with some extra notes explaining things more. Firstly apologies - this is complicated stuff, and not easy to get across.
 
 

 

 
OK this slide should be familiar to anybody that is aware of the WTA filter. What I am trying to say here is that a DAC job is not about reproducing the sampled digital data - but about recovering the signal before it was sampled, i.e. the original analogue signal in the ADC. The interpolation filter has the job of recovering the original analogue signal, as it is at the heart of the process of converting from a sampled signal back to a continuous signal. I am also talking about how essential that timing of transients is too the ear and brain; if there are errors in the timing of transients (a signal's transient edge maybe too early or too late compared to the rest of the signal) then this error has massive consequences for the brain to understand the audio, and this affects the ability for us to perceive the starting and stopping of notes, the perception of sound-stage, timbre and even bass pitch (transients are used as a cue to perceive bass pitch for example - timing errors on transients mean you can not follow or perceive the bass tune).
 

 
So here I am talking about sampling theory. Basically, if you use an interpolation filter that had a sinc impulse response, then you would perfectly reconstruct the bandwidth limited waveform before it was sampled - so the sampled data would have all the missing bits in between perfectly represented - there would be absolutely no difference whatsoever from the original. So it would not matter whether you were sampling at 22 uS, or 22 fS, the bandwidth limited signal would be absolutely identical in both cases.
 
But to do this we of course need the analogue signal to be perfectly bandwidth limited (that's the job of the ADC - and this actually is not technically difficult to do, Davina for example will have > 200 dB of bandwidth limiting), but from the DAC's point of view we need an interpolation filter that infinitely oversamples and has infinite ringing. To do this we would need a sinc FIR filter that had an infinite number of taps; something clearly impossible to do. So to cope with a limited number of taps, I found that changing the algorithm (this determines the values of the coefficients, and that sets the shape of the impulse response, or how the ringing is defined). So hence how and why the WTA filter was created.
 
So I can see that maybe you are asking the question - the ideal filter rings and rings and rings for an infinite period of time, and it looks nothing like the original impulse, which is zero, a pulse, then zero. So how can one possibly say that this filter returns the original signal completely unchanged? After all everybody says ringing is bad and unnatural.
 
So how do we answer this paradox? Its easy - the original impulse is NOT a legal signal as it is not bandwidth limited. An impulse for CD has exactly the same level at 22.05 kHz as at DC - but sampling theory absolutely demands that the signal be bandwidth limited, and this means that at exactly 22.05 kHz and above the signal has exactly zero output - not the full output that a impulse supplies. So all this talk about ringing is fundamentally mistaken as you are basing a prejudice on a signal which a competent ADC would never be capable of supplying.
 
Here is the key idea - take an ideal impulse, then bandwidth limit it, so that for CD the level at 22.05 kHz and above is exactly zero, then use this as your test signal. What would happen here is that ideal filter, which rings and rings and rings with the illegal impulse, would return absolutely no difference from the un-sampled bandwidth limited impulse. And cruder filters that have short ringing will actually produce more ringing, and more changes to the original signal! So the idea that ringing of filters is bad is based on a false premise, and people simply not understanding the theory properly.
 
The next slide covers the WTA history - I have been talking about long tap length filters for a very long time:
 

 
So this sees the history of the WTA filter, and I will be coming back to this later.
 

 
So this talks about the new FPGA that only recently became readily available in production quantities. Now actually this design using this device actually came from the Davina ADC project, so it was easy for me to drop it in from the Davina project. So of course the secret of tap length is now out but:
 

 
The next slide actually talks about the relevance of this:
 

 
Now what do I mean about 16 bit accuracy? When you look back at the sinc function, to absolutely guarantee reconstruction to 16 bit accuracy you need the ideal sinc function coefficients to be smaller than 16 bit - and to do this, for a 16 FS filter, then you need getting on for a million taps. Now I have history on this idea. Roll back to the early 1980's when digital recordings started to appear on vinyl - and they sounded awful - hard and flat. I was at university, and was studying Electronics as a science, so we did much more theory than usual, and sampling theory was a big chunk. Now my private studies included trawling through the psychology library, and reading up on the science of hearing and perception. A common strand was the importance of transients for perceptual cues - and I learnt that it affects everything to do with enjoying music, so was crucially important.
 
But understanding sampling theory I immediately recognised that the interpolation filters at that time (initially NOS passive filters, then replaced with simple FIR filters) would have massive problems in reconstructing the timing of transients. I thought of it as a audio uncertainty principle (like Heisenberg uncertainty principle from quantum mechanics) when passed through a crude filter you would have uncertainty on the timing of transients that occurred in-between the samples. I actually later learnt there is a Fourier uncertainty due to windowing functions - and a window function is exactly what you do to make a finite FIR filter. By having longer tap lengths you reduce the Fourier uncertainty - exactly as my intuition told me.
 
Anyway, its was easy for me to calculate what you needed from an FIR filter to guarantee 16 bit performance under all conditions, and you needed getting on for 1M taps. Now in the early 1980's, DSP or FPGA devices didn't exist, the micro had only been invented a few years earlier. So the idea that 1M taps would ever be available or doable was clearly insane; its seemed like inventing a ship to take you to Alpha Alpha Centauri in a day would be more likely. So my reasoning was that it is never going to happen, and so digital was fundamentally flawed....
 
Now getting back to designing the filter. I have had immense problems with designing long tap length WTA filters before, and 1M taps seemed too much for the A200, so I settled on 512,000 taps, as it could be easily done. You don't want to spend months coding and designing a filter only to find that the FPGA won't work with that design.
 
So I got it designed, verified, got the FPGA to pass the design and meet timing closure.
 
Then after spending a few months over the summer I got to listen to it. Now expectations were not strong; I knew it would sound better, but I was expecting it to be just an incremental improvement.
 
I was very wrong.
 
It was massive - one of those transformational things one hears rarely.
 
Oh dear. This actually was a problem, as if it was just a bit better, then more taps would not benefit much. It was a problem, as we had penciled in October to launch Blu mk 2. And increasing tap length would mean forgetting that, as more tap lengths meant completely designing a brand new filter with  new architecture.
 
I really wanted to go for 1 million taps too, as this has been my 35 year dream. To get 1M, I had to solve two problems - meeting timing, and actually using the memory. Now there was (just) about enough memory, but when you actually use the memory, not all of it is available - so I had to figure a way to improve memory efficiency. But it was also risky, as spending 3 months more may mean it would never work.
 
What to do? Delay the project with something that may never be achievable? And what about all the other things I had to do (Davina, Hugo2, dig amp...) - they would get delayed.
 
I decided to bite the bullet, and do what I wanted top do - which is always about performance.
 
And December I finally got it finished - and was frankly richly rewarded. Now I do not want this to sound like some advert for it - that's not my intention and forgive me if it comes across that way - but the change in sound is not small. Everything benefits - clarity is the first thing that hits you - then focus and depth, then more refinement and timbre variation. And I can't get it out of my head as to why it's so massive - but relating technical errors to sound is very interesting - and the ear/brain is amazingly sensitive.
 
So the next slide is the internal architecture of the new design:
 

 
So this gives you a flavor of the well over half a million lines of code that goes into this and the complexity of it.
 
Finally is a discussion about Dave, and why I can't easily drop this FPGA into a DAC:
 

 
Now depth perception is a major thing with Dave - and that is down to resolving small signals absolutely perfectly, with no changes in amplitude. Having a chip next to the pulse array elements injecting 10A peak of weakly signal correlated current would destroy that ability, so using a separate M scaler would be easily the best sounding option.
 
The USB M scaler is actually Davina. I knew at the start of the Davina project that M scaler mode would be an important mode of operation for it; indeed, the Blu mk2 project could only be justified because of the future release of Davina. After all, a USB input is what I really need personally - but Blu has a SPDIF BNC input, so that is how I currently listen to my newly discovered music collection - yes it is that profound a change.
What is also odd is that older CD recordings sound very much better - now my high res downloads are also better, but not like 16 bit. Indeed, my feelings are that sound quality is now almost completely dependent upon the recording process and not the actual sample rate used. And the 1960's Decca's and Mercury recordings - well some of them has been transformed. I am really amazed at the quality of these recordings - now they sound obviously a bit distorted, and are noisy - but they do things that modern recordings at 192 kHz fail to do - and that is reproduce speed and impact of dynamics, and variation in timbre. In short, these old recordings have life and vitality - and this has become more apparent to me with the M scaler.
 
Why would that be so? Well simply put - this is the first time that 16 bit has actually been reproduced to guarantee 16 bit accuracy of the timing of transients. So for the first time we can actually perceive what 16 bit is actually capable of. But where does that now leave us? How many more taps do we need? How close is 1M to ideal?
 
That is the question I aim to answer with the Davina project - I will make 768 kHz recordings, decimate it down to 48 kHz, M scale it back up to 768 kHz, to create another file. So we will know for sure what these losses actually represent subjectively by comparing the two files.
 
2017 should be very exciting.....
 

 
Jan 8, 2017 at 4:31 PM Post #6,641 of 25,883
 
 
Rob, it is wonderful that you done all this work and delivered the possibility of even better sound from our music. But as a very happy DAVE owner can I ask you to please consider making the WTA M scaler available separately from the Davina. I am not going to buy an Blu2 to get the WTA M scaler because I don't want to pay for a whole load of CD reading technology that I won't use. Similarly I don't want to buy a Davina to get the WTA M scaler because I don't want to pay for an ADC I have no use for. So please think of us DAVE owners; we've spent a lot of our money with Chord, surely it is reasonable for us to expect this new million tap magic to be available in a package with little redundancy and thus less cost.


I am sure it is just horses for courses. I was going to buy a cd transport for Dave and was very happy with the Blu2 announcement.

Similarly, no ADC is complete if it is not equipped with a compatible DAC for monitoring.

I am sure that one day, Chord will come out with a standalone M-Scaler, but for now am happy that I can get this kind of quality upgrade without having to replace my newly purchased Dave. If I have to wait another year or so to get an M/scaler for 10% less, it's not going to happen.

 
I have already looked into that, and its possible that eliminating the ADC won't actually make a great deal of difference. The majority of the BOM cost is metalwork, FPGA, PCB and power supply. The ADC savings (analogue integrators and pulse array) is actually quite small and would probably be outweighed by the costs of producing two products.
 
I want as many people as possible to enjoy the benefits of M scaler tech, so we are trying our best to reduce costs.
 
Rob

 
Jan 8, 2017 at 5:02 PM Post #6,642 of 25,883
I have already looked into that, and its possible that eliminating the ADC won't actually make a great deal of difference. The majority of the BOM cost is metalwork, FPGA, PCB and power supply. The ADC savings (analogue integrators and pulse array) is actually quite small and would probably be outweighed by the costs of producing two products.
 
Yeah, I've seen that, too.
confused_face.gif

 
Jan 8, 2017 at 9:02 PM Post #6,643 of 25,883
Looking for a little clarification here. Chord's product announcement for the Blu mkII says that it uses 1 million taps. It doesn't say 1 million in conjunction with Dave and 500,000 when connected to other DACs, nor does it say 500,000 when playing a red book CD without a standalone DAC. If Romaz's analysis is correct then the product announcement is confusing at best. All this leads me to wonder how the sound compares when a CD is played on the Blu mkII with and without Dave.

Also, if Davina will potentially be available by summer then the wait time between the Blu mkII and Davina may be as short as 5-6 months. As much as we all want to enjoy the sound of 1 million taps in our own homes, £7,995 product is not an impulse buy. And if you wait you can spend 150 USD on music instead of spending it on an Audiophileo device.

Davina promises to be the best ADC ever produced. It's then a little ironic for so many Davinas to end up in the systems of playback hobbyists who have no intention of every using it as an ADC.

The previous gold standard ADC was the Pacific Microsonics 2, now long out of production and commanding a price of 20,000 USD if you can even find one for sale. If Chord someday decides to get out of the ADC business it would leave Davina as a product made out of "unobtainium." I couldn't imagine that there would be many audiophiles willing to part with their Davina/Dave combo.

Final question and then I'll give it a rest. I'm assuming that the Blu mkII and Davina will both come in choice of silver or black?

Esau
 
Jan 8, 2017 at 9:17 PM Post #6,644 of 25,883
I want a streamer and Mscalar in one box. In my opinion, they rush Blu2. They should add the steaming option to Blu2. It will be ultimate source component . I don't accept the argument that there is BNC input. First, I don't want more boxes and cables unless it is necessary. I don't want DAVE to become ridiculous dcs Vivaldi mulitboxes. Second, the BNC input is limited to up to 192kHz.

Chord, please consider a Blu2 SE to add the steaming option.
 
Jan 8, 2017 at 9:25 PM Post #6,645 of 25,883
Great scoop Roy i think all of us in here highly regard this info from you.

Neverteless i hope and pray for a stand alone M-Scaler with USB / S/Pdif as everyone would like to buy, even not Chord owners.

Can you describe in short what you felt happened with the sound besides depht and clarity? Did it give you a more analog feeling with some wamth left or?
From your description i read it like it is more of the same as if it is about to tip over against the slightly analythical side, or what is your honest golden ear opinion?

Then it would have been great fun to hook it up to a diffrent DAC brand like a Nagra, Esoteric , Emmlabs , DCS or why not a Mojo and see what would happen!

Have a great day on CES !

Thanks, Fredrik. 
 
I am home now (I arrived late last night and it's been tough to report back until now).  It was probably the best CES in recent memory with lots to see and hear.  The Chord room and the time spent with Rob and John were easily the highlight.  Thank you both!  Just the most gracious hosts!
 
Both Blu 2 and Davina can indeed be used with any DAC including a Mojo, Nagra, etc.  Blu 2 will likely be the best CD transport in the universe regardless of what DAC it is connected to.  Davina could well compete with the very best phono preamp in the world even though you would be going from analog to digital and back to analog again.  As Rob has stated, it can also be used to digitally record analog media to a very high standard if a computer is connected to Davina via USB, perhaps the highest standard ever known.  Only when combined with DAVE can either of these devices truly equal analog because it is only with 1 million TAPS that you can faithfully recreate the original analog waveform.
 
As for my honest first impressions, here they are.  To be fair, it will take me more listening time in my own system to really tell you what I think.  I don't think I have a golden ear any more than anyone else but I have a very good sense of what I like and what I'm looking for and because I have sought to hear and compare many things, what I do have in abundance is perspective.  I believe it is well known to most that I covet the experience of a live performance in an acoustical venue.  Large orchestral classical music is by far my favorite genre and probably the most challenging for a DAC to convincingly portray but I also love other types of music, especially live jazz and even rock and pop as long as the performance is soulful.  As I write this, I am listening to Pink Floyd.  I find it amazing what DAVE can do with any genre.
 
What I will say is the combo of DAVE + Blu 2 just took a massive step forward in sounding like you are there and that is probably the finest compliment I can give any piece of equipment.  In a live situation, never have I wished that the sound was warmer, more organic, had fuller midrange, more extended highs or better bass but as you know, to achieve this type of balance requires more than just a good DAC although the DAC is obviously a foundational piece.  In some ways, compared to the Vienna Acoustic speakers and the Chord Mezzo 75 amp that were used in Chord's setup, I like my system at home better but this obviously took me much time and effort to achieve and I also believe this has a lot to do with my DAVE directly powering my speakers.  I cannot overstate just how HUGE I believe Chord's upcoming digital amp will be for a speaker setup or for headphones that require more power and how much better this type of setup will reveal the impact of 1 million TAPS.  Even compared against the million dollar setups I heard at CES over the weekend, I have yet to hear a setup that speaks to my heart and my overall sensibilities better than what I have at home.  Despite this, what I heard with DAVE + Blu 2 was very very special and I heard it immediately and I'm certain most will also.  In a simplistic sense, yes, there is better depth and clarity of detail but these things are huge because these are the things that all DACs strive for and yet so few truly achieve.  As DAVE owners, we are already spoiled by these qualities and yet the M-scaler gives you more of it, so much more that in comparison, the DAVE by itself sounded hazy and flat, descriptors that I have never before used with the DAVE.  I know what you're asking, however.  In the end, it really isn't just about depth and clarity of detail, it is a greater sense of musicality and engagement that we seek and so if this is your question, then let me provide you this perspective.
 
As I do at all audio shows I attend, I listen to a lot of different setups and without fail, I am always impressed by a few.  This year, I really enjoyed hearing the new YG Audio Sonja XVS ($265,000) powered by a pair of wonderful Audionet amps.  Interestingly, as a prominent European journalist came into the room for a listen, they abruptly switched from digital playback to vinyl.  I have witnessed this a lot, however.  When it matters most, most rooms switch to vinyl.  Why?  Because their vinyl setups are more musically engaging.  Even in the Nagra room, which I always enjoy, René Laflamme seemed to play more analog than digital even with Nagra's newly updated HD DAC.  Of course, this is never the case in MSB's room where their statement Select II DAC takes center stage with no turntable or reel to reel in sight.  The MSB room is always well done and just like at RMAF, the Select II was showcasing its new MQA capabilities to very good effect.  I will discuss MQA in a later post as I have much to say about it having witnessed the mobs at the MQA booth but what I will say is that with the Select II, MQA resulted in a clear improvement in terms of you guessed it -- better clarity of detail and depth.  In a nutshell, MQA attempts to achieve exactly the same things as the M-scaler, to bring you closer to the performance.  Does it do it better than DAVE or the M-scaler?  I think you might already know the answer to that.
 
Here are a few observations that are not new to me but have become glaringly more apparent with each show that I attend.  In just about every room that was playing digital, the music that was playing was your typical audiophile fare that always sounds good in any well-implemented system but also very easy for even a $100 AudioQuest Dragonfly DAC to portray.  In fact, I heard just such a presentation with a Dragonfly DAC in the AudioQuest room that sounded as good as many of these rooms.  That's right, soundtracks with lots of synthesized bass, solo studio vocals from the likes of Diana Krall, Rebecca Pidgeon or Steely Dan but rarely do I hear anyone playing unamplified orchestral music.  
 
In the past year, I have sat in the MSB room at 4 different audio shows and have always enjoyed the selections that Vince Galbo has queued up.  He obviously chooses music that the Select II portrays well but I always found it curious that he never played classical music.  This year, as the room was nearly empty and he was open to suggestions, I asked him to play a classical piece and he admitted he had a very limited selection of classical music but agreed to play a piece he had on hand.  It wasn't really a classical piece but more of an orchestral soundtrack but it was very telling.  The presentation was explosively dynamic and the instruments had nice air around them typical of what I would expect from the wonderful dual power bases that power the Select II.  At the same time, while there was this nice air around the instruments, true depth was lacking, depth that I routinely hear with this type of music with my DAVE and heard in much greater abundance at the Chord room just minutes before.  Moreover, fine details seemed to be missing or else were blurred together.  Instead of an onion with numerous layers of detail that I had heard in the Chord room, it was like an apple with a thick peel and then the core of the fruit.  Plenty of meat but without the juicy succulent layers.  Lacking was the nuance and subtle articulation that I am used to with orchestral music.  The mass of violins had no variation and sounded homogenous.  Furthermore, the attack was more diffuse and the leading edge less incisive, as if a dull knife had been used to make the cut.  Others may disagree, but speed is not the strength of this DAC.
 
As I reviewed my notes of how my DAVE directly compared against the newly revised Nagra HD and the dCS Vivaldi some months ago, I realized the differences were the same:
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/766517/chord-electronics-dave/5160#post_12940576
 
However, having just experienced DAVE + Blu 2 prior to coming to the MSB room, it seemed the contrast with the Select II was considerably greater.  For someone who routinely finds great engagement with orchestral music with their DAVE, this was not engaging at all and so I can imagine this could be a reason why MSB (or anyone else) doesn't routinely play orchestral music -- it just doesn't sound convincing in their systems.  Of course, there's also the possibility these people don't enjoy classical music but not to have it on tap is unusual to me considering many audiophiles love classical music.
 
Here is another perspective I would like to offer.  I have become very friendly with my local Audio Note UK dealer.  He is a true lover of music which I appreciate and so we have had many wonderful discussions about music and have spent hours in his shop listening to vinyl spinning in his system.  Before I bought my Omega Alnicos, I had strongly considered buying a pair of his wonderful Audio Note speakers although as the Audio Note Alnicos start at $30k, this was not a purchase decision one takes lightly.  I also looked at the Audio Note DAC that he had on hand (the 2.1 Signature).  This DAC sounded pleasant enough in his system comprised of a pair of Audio Note 300B tube amps although it paled in comparison to his vinyl setup.  In his opinion, "nothing compares to vinyl" although he has never heard my DAVE.  Nonetheless, he once tried to sell me an Audio Note DAC stating it was the best digital he had ever heard even though it couldn't compare to his vinyl setup but one thing in particular that he told me was very telling:  "Audio Note DACs never measure well but they sound great."  This told me all I needed to know, that he preferred the sound of distortion and I believe many people do, even if it is even-order distortion.  This suggests that the digital converter is so bad that it needs to be softened and sweetened somehow through the analog output stage.  It's why people with off the shelf silicon DACs oversample to DSD, because DSD sounds smoother and less edgy.  Even though DSD lacks detail, to lose this detail is better than to deal with the substrate noise that is inherent to chip DACS.  
 
Having owned a very fine TotalDac d1- monobloc, I find NOS DACs like the Nagra and most resistance ladder DACs much more to my liking than any chip DACs I have thus far heard.  They are indeed smoother and less "digital" sounding than chip DACs but I admit now that it is a distortion that I favor with NOS DACs.  The problem with enjoying distortion is while pleasing on some level, there are limits to how real and engaging this can ever sound and you don't realize it until you hear something like the DAVE.  With NOS specifically, there is the other problem of low ambition.  The NOS concept aspires only to translate the original digital signal as best as it can.  Rob, as we know, aspires to a much higher goal as he has been very clear that his goal has always been to reproduce the original analog waveform and this is simply not possible without oversampling and so it is ironic that people equate NOS to analog when it has no real intentions of truly being analog.
 
As far as the M-scaler impacting the DAVE's tonality, I didn't get that sense at all.  If you are looking for a true analog sound, then M-scaler + DAVE is as close as you will get with its million taps but if you are looking for a certain warmth or bloom that is missing from your system, I believe this balance is best achieved through your analog components and not your digital components (ie warmer headphones/speakers, warmer copper or gold-infused cables, a First Watt JFET amp or 2A3 tube amp, etc).  In truth, a DAC is also an analog component and you could pair the Blu 2 with something like the Nagra HD with its tube output stage to achieve a warmer signature but having compared this DAC directly against the DAVE, this warmer tonality comes at a significant price of resolution. 
 

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