CHORD ELECTRONICS DAVE

[ismewor]

Hi,
I'm not sure if this has been answered before , Will Dave going to update to DSD512?

 

[EVOLVIST]

Great post, Jon. It gives me more food for thought.

Those original masterings for the first 4 Metallica albums are not loud and compressed at all, though. Subsequent albums are, and more recent remasters, but not the originals. They are fantastic!

About hirez files, yeah, I guess I've been listening to quite a few, but I have no idea the percentage. Actually that might be it! Sure I've been listening to sporadic redbook, but mainly when I demo gear, in this case the FUs, it's been hirez Tom Petty, the Doors, John Coltrane, Neil Young, David Bowie in DSD and old Aerosmith in DSD. Some DSD Pink Floyd, too. Hmmmm.

Still, if I'm at 0db with my DAVE, and I'm only pulling 80-85db on the SPL meter (I'm rounding up), then doesn't that show I'm at a comfortable volume, because I rarely even go up that high? I mean for comfortable listening then might be at -14db to -10db on the DAVE which would equate to about 60db SPL, yeah?

That still doesn't explain why my numbers are so different from you guys, though.

 

[ismewor]

I usually do this below.

LCD 3 -14
LCD 4 -11
HD800 -25
Final Audio IV -27
Final Audio X -33

 

[x RELIC x]

Hi,
I'm not sure if this has been answered before , Will Dave going to update to DSD512?

It's already capable of DSD512.

Look under the features tab of the DAVE webpage:

http://www.chordelectronics.co.uk/product/dave/

 

[miketlse]

Great post, Jon. It gives me more food for thought.

Those original masterings for the first 4 Metallica albums are not loud and compressed at all, though. Subsequent albums are, and more recent remasters, but not the originals. They are fantastic!

About hirez files, yeah, I guess I've been listening to quite a few, but I have no idea the percentage. Actually that might be it! Sure I've been listening to sporadic redbook, but mainly when I demo gear, in this case the FUs, it's been hirez Tom Petty, the Doors, John Coltrane, Neil Young, David Bowie in DSD and old Aerosmith in DSD. Some DSD Pink Floyd, too. Hmmmm.

Still, if I'm at 0db with my DAVE, and I'm only pulling 80-85db on the SPL meter (I'm rounding up), then doesn't that show I'm at a comfortable volume, because I rarely even go up that high? I mean for comfortable listening then might be at -14db to -10db on the DAVE which would equate to about 60db SPL, yeah?

That still doesn't explain why my numbers are so different from you guys, though.

Not yet - but you are gradually evolving a rational and traceable methodology of tests, that hopefully will lead you to the explanation. 

 

[miketlse]

Hi,
I'm not sure if this has been answered before , Will Dave going to update to DSD512?

The Chord family of DACs can work such magic with standard redbook files, that i cannot understand some audiophiles obsession with chasing ever higher DSD file handling. 

 

[ismewor]

Sure, that's all personal preference, and that is why there are more coffee shop than it need to be.

 

[jlbrach]

  The Chord family of DACs can work such magic with standard redbook files, that i cannot understand some audiophiles obsession with chasing ever higher DSD file handling. 

I tend to agree,a well mastered redbook CD sounds wonderful on the Dave...a poorly mastered Hi Rez recording sounds lousy no matter the high resolution....for me it is all about the mastering...obviously a well mastered hi rez recording should be the summit....for the record I do own tons of SACD's that i play on my standard stereo loudspeaker configuration so I am not anti hi rez....i just think a lousy recording is a lousy recording no matter the resolution....I have several Hi rez recording that sound worse than the redbook version of the same album due to better mastering on the redbook

 

[jlbrach]

Great post, Jon. It gives me more food for thought.

Those original masterings for the first 4 Metallica albums are not loud and compressed at all, though. Subsequent albums are, and more recent remasters, but not the originals. They are fantastic!

About hirez files, yeah, I guess I've been listening to quite a few, but I have no idea the percentage. Actually that might be it! Sure I've been listening to sporadic redbook, but mainly when I demo gear, in this case the FUs, it's been hirez Tom Petty, the Doors, John Coltrane, Neil Young, David Bowie in DSD and old Aerosmith in DSD. Some DSD Pink Floyd, too. Hmmmm.

Still, if I'm at 0db with my DAVE, and I'm only pulling 80-85db on the SPL meter (I'm rounding up), then doesn't that show I'm at a comfortable volume, because I rarely even go up that high? I mean for comfortable listening then might be at -14db to -10db on the DAVE which would equate to about 60db SPL, yeah?

That still doesn't explain why my numbers are so different from you guys, though.

Something is amiss for sure...there is no way your listening levels can be that different than everybody elses especially when you tell us your son and ex-wife to be also hear it pretty much the same way

 

[Rob Watts]

 

I'm now much more suspicious that Evolvist just likes to listen to music louder than most people. I realized it's actually very hard to not get bit-perfect setup from Roon using SonicOrbiter and mRendu. The volume setting is probably also higher if the music collection only contains music with little dynamic compression because that would mean the average music volume for the tracks are probably lower to begin with. Hence, I'm thinking there's probably nothing wrong in the digital/computer setup of the system.

You know, you might be on to something with the lack of dynamically compromised recordings in my library. I'm not a big metal listener, but even that Metallica recording was from the original 1986 CD which clocks in at an overall DR12.

I think I listen to music loud enough to where I'm not passively listening, as serious listening sessions require enough volume to really feel the music. At the same time, though, if ever the volume gets uncomfortable (I think we all know our thresholds) then I simply turn it down.

Not to be too off topic, as I still think we're with in the realm of talking about the DAVE - because I would like to hear @Rob Watts chime in - but in the FU thread I noted that with my HD800s any music I listened to with DAVE fell within a small margin of -3db to +3db for really low recordings. With the FUs, on the other hand, I find my recordings really ranging from -16db to 0db. Anything approaching the 0db range are really low recordings, like Tom Petty's first album and the 2013 Analogue Productions Doors remasters, which are also very, very low. Oddly enough, for most of my classical music, I've found will sit in around the -16db to -12db range.

That still doesn't explain, however, why my wife and 13-year old find comfort in the same range as I do. It's not like they have the hobby and must get "the feels" from the music. My wife controls her own volume and I noticed that she was right in the same pocket as me.

Plus, as I noted about the SPL meter (and I'm going to try some more with different ones) the arrow seems to point to getting an average of 80-85db out of the FUs.

So, I still see a bit of a mystery, only maybe one that's getting a bit clearer. I'm still going to get a feel from the folks on the mRendu and Roon forums.

If the volume is at +4dB or below, don't worry is my advice.
 
If you want to find out the peak levels on a particular recording, try using Audacity. Then you will know for sure if a particular recording is too quiet.
 
Rob

 

[analogmusic]

Would like to know what all Dave owners are using as a source into Dave?
 
Mostly laptops or other sources like mobile phones, Mac, microrendu, other streamers?
 
Personally I am using Windows 7 -- > J river (with Chord Asio Driver) --> USB (with the cable that came with Dave) -- Dave

 

[rkt31]

  Would like to know what all Dave owners are using as a source into Dave?
 
Mostly laptops or other sources like mobile phones, Mac, microrendu, other streamers?
 
Personally I am using Windows 7 -- > J river (with Chord Asio Driver) --> USB (with the cable that came with Dave) -- Dave

i don't have dave right now but use hugo and mojo with laptop. i use foobar with asio driver and in the advance setting i have set play from the memory . foobar somehow uses lot less processing power in bit perfect mode via chord asio driver . don't know why j river uses more memory. with redbook there is no problem but with dsd256 j river struggles to stream in dop while foobar does not. i use j river only for movies because i could find only j river which allows the selection of asio for audio part and does automatic adjustments for video. i tried hq player in bit perfect mode ( without any upsampling ) still foobar could beat j river and hq player in bit perfect mode. recently i have ordered oyaide neo d+A class 1m usb ( S class is not needed for short lengths) after reading some very good reviews, for if at all i am able to afford dave in future.  

 

[lovethatsound]

Would like to know what all Dave owners are using as a source into Dave?

Mostly laptops or other sources like mobile phones, Mac, microrendu, other streamers?

Personally I am using Windows 7 -- > J river (with Chord Asio Driver) --> USB (with the cable that came with Dave) -- Dave

Merry Christmas
I mainly use the chord blu cd transport,to be honest with you,i still think their better than using a laptop.

 

[AndrewOld]

Would like to know what all Dave owners are using as a source into Dave?

Mostly laptops or other sources like mobile phones, Mac, microrendu, other streamers?

Personally I am using Windows 7 -- > J river (with Chord Asio Driver) --> USB (with the cable that came with Dave) -- Dave

I'm using a little fanless Acer laptop (into which I've just put an SSD so it is absolutely silent), running the superb JRiver under Windows 10. Connected via USB using a Supra screened cable which I just happens to have. And an AQ jitterbug. Often use JRemote on my iPad to control it. For the last year I've also been streaming from Qobuz a lot - this really is excellent value and quality. I also happen to have an old Logitech Touch which is connected via optical - is is useful for radio, and I can also use dQobuz on it remotely controlled via iPeng on my iPad.

 

[TheAttorney]

Strangely enough, I've been seriously re-thinking sources, and their relative importance, for my DAVE.
 
With a start point of my elderly Nagra CDC (very pricey integrated CD Player/pre-amp) -> Optical cable to DAVE.
If this is the reference point, then in approximate chronological order of change over the year...
 

1. Replaced CD player with Windows 10 laptop, Redbook FLAC on internal SSD, running off internal battery, app player=JRMC, all DSP off  -> TQ Black Diamond USB cable -> DAVE
   1. This sounded different, but broadly equal to reference, the latter still overall slightly preferable in an analoguey kinda way
2.   Same laptop but with JRMC replaced by HQ Player, all DSP off apart from Dither
   1. Now clearly better than reference, albeit still in same ballpark SQ. This was the point when I knew my trusty old CDC's days were numbered
3. Insert microRendu with low cost iFi p/s, an old Linksys WiFi router with stock p/s, Monoprice Cat 6 ethernet, laptop connected wirelessly
   1. A step change improvement in SQ. Like upgrading a main component. This was the point of no return.
4. Replace iFi p/s with MCRU linear p/s, all stock bar upgraded DC power cable to a (rather thin) 1ft silver cable. (MCRU is a UK two-box p/s Price around £240 + around £50 silver DC cable)
   1. Worthwhile further improvement
5. Replace Monoprice ethernet cable with Supra CAT8
   1. Worthwhile further improvement and staggering VFM at £35 [1]
6. Replace laptop wifi to router with my now spare Monoprice ethernet cable
   1. A backwards step. Yes, I was surprised too. So the WiFi stays for now [1]. Maybe a better ethernet cable would have turned the tables?
7. Replace MCRU p/s with LPS-1 with stock DC power cable
   1. Worthwhile further improvement. Possibly a step change, but can't quantify this because the next few steps came in quick succession, so blurred the significance of the original change 
8. Replace LPS-1's stock DC cable with a short 4 inch silver wire - cut from my now spare MCRU, I soldered the cut wire to a couple of Oyaide DC plugs
   1. Worthwhile further improvement - despite my dodgy soldering skills
9. Replace the Router's stock p/s with my now spare MCRU
   1. Something interesting happened here that I couldn't quite quantify. Was this a step "improvement" or a step "difference"? Led me to quickly try:
10. Raided my box of spares to dig out: an ancient Transparent near-entry-level power cord; AMR and HFT Supreme Fuses; HRS damping plate and footer. With a combined result of...
    1. Router with fully loaded MCRU was a step improvement. Chose the HFT over AMR fuse, and both were directional (in an AC circuit! Yes, really). [1] [2] [3]

 
The end result was: Laptop ->wifi -> router with fully loaded MCRU p/s -> Supra ethernet cable -> mR with LPS-1 p/s with silver DC cable -> TQ USB cable -> DAVE
 
Despite the insertion of several boxes/cables into the digital signal chain, this was so far ahead of my reference point, I wouldn't have believed it had anyone told me a year ago. As always, YMMV and these changes are probably objectively very small. None of them, apart from [2], directly changed the tonal signature of my system, although many of them indirectly influenced tonal perception by removing some hash and grain, and increasing focus. The conclusion for me is that just about everything upstream of DAVE can matter. This goes against some earlier posts where theoretically DAVE+mR should be largely immunne to upstream quality. But my usual quip applies here: I have no option but to trust my own ears.... becuase they're the only ones I've got.
 
Notes:
 
[1] These are all candidates for my "I didn't see that one coming" award for 2016. The winner though was the last change: fully loading the MCRU p/s for my router, as it simply gave me my most musically satisfying "I didn't see that one coming" moment of the year.
[2] The HRS damping plate on the MCRU (as well as on DAVE itself] slightly increased the bass, and seemed to add "weight" to the whole sound stage, both of which were very welcome for my Stax 009's. It seemed to affect other parts of the frequency response as well, but I couldn't immediately get a handle on what that was exactly. The HRS footer helped the MCRU, but didn't do anything to DAVE, so obviously YMMV for the hundredth time.
[3] Would I have heard such a difference in the last change if this instead been the first change to try? Do some of the later changes negate the values of the earlier ones? Dunno, as I don't have the patience to try all combinations. But I'm sure that issues in one part of the chain can mask the effect of other parts.
 
Next thing to try:
The SOtM something 200 rival to mR, which some early reports reckon is better than mR and costs less. 
And maybe the SOtM ehernet cable, as romaz liked above all others
And Roon once I get a better broadband connection to my house.
Not in a great rush for these, just going to enjoy what I currently have and rediscover my music collection all over again..