[izzard1982]

So, for all DAVE owners, when plugging right into the DAVE with your headphones, what volume range does the DAVE read and with which headphones are you using?

I'm trying to get as many answers as possible, as this came up in the Focal Utopia thread.

Thank much! Happy holidays!

HD800: -27
Utopia: -31
LCD4: -15
HEK: -22

mR to DAVE

 

[EVOLVIST]

HD800: -27
Utopia: -31
LCD4: -15
HEK: -22

mR to DAVE

Are you using Roon? If so, what are your volume settings?

 

[rkt31]

truly speaking i have not tested myself furutech custom made power cable against ultra high end readymade power cables, but the dealer himself sells both furutech and some ultra high end power cables and he was able to test furutech custom cable against those expensive readymade power cables and as per him it was no contest. a furutech custom cable of worth $350 was better than many a thousand $ readymade cable. actually what i could understand that readymade power cables invariably come in very heavy gauge and imho for most of the applications and short lengths that much heavy gauge is of not much use. here those custom cables made from furutech bulk cables of lighter gauge but with much more advance technology like alpha nano ag-au can be much more cheaper than ultra high end readymade cables and yet perform better.

 

[Music Alchemist]

  truly speaking i have not tested myself furutech custom made power cable against ultra high end readymade power cables, but the dealer himself sells both furutech and some ultra high end power cables and he was able to test furutech custom cable against those expensive readymade power cables and as per him it was no contest. a furutech custom cable of worth $350 was better than many a thousand $ readymade cable. actually what i could understand that readymade power cables invariably come in very heavy gauge and imho for most of the applications and short lengths that much heavy gauge is of not much use. here those custom cables made from furutech bulk cables of lighter gauge but with much more advance technology like alpha nano ag-au can be much more cheaper than ultra high end readymade cables and yet perform better.

 
Thanks for sharing. If you learn of the names of those specific cables in the future and can share those as well, it would be appreciated. It would be nice to have such a reference point to avoid those and perhaps try the Furutech, comparing it to certain others, when the time comes.

 

[izzard1982]

Are you using Roon? If so, what are your volume settings?

Yes, I'm using Roon with output set to HQPlayer which has all the processing turned off. In Roon, the volume is set to fixed.

 

[EVOLVIST]

Yes, I'm using Roon with output set to HQPlayer which has all the processing turned off. In Roon, the volume is set to fixed.

See, this is what I don't get. I have Roon set to fixed, as well, going into my DAVE through a Curious cable link. I have my Focal Utopias connected to the DAVE's HP out. But here's the thing: my volume on the DAVE rangers from -14 to 0db.

At first you would think that my hearing is zapped, because just like you, other people are reporting -40 to -20db. However, my wife listens to my above mentioned levels, as well as my 13-year old son, and it is not too loud for them either. Moreover, I've had my ears tested professionally and I can hear from 30hz to 16kHz with ease.

I figure it has to be something in a setting somewhere, but I just can't figure it out, because I already have Roon set to fixed volume. It's becoming crazy that I can't figure it out.

 

[jlbrach]

Are you using Roon? If so, what are your volume settings?

This is about the same for me with my Utopia and LCD-4 straight out of the Dave with my AK120 as a source....my LCD-4 would range from about -18 to -3 and my Utopia from -40 to -20

 

[x RELIC x]

See, this is what I don't get. I have Roon set to fixed, as well, going into my DAVE through a Curious cable link. I have my Focal Utopias connected to the DAVE's HP out. But here's the thing: my volume on the DAVE rangers from -14 to 0db.

At first you would think that my hearing is zapped, because just like you, other people are reporting -40 to -20db. However, my wife listens to my above mentioned levels, as well as my 13-year old son, and it is not too loud for them either. Moreover, I've had my ears tested professionally and I can hear from 30hz to 16kHz with ease.

I figure it has to be something in a setting somewhere, but I just can't figure it out, because I already have Roon set to fixed volume. It's becoming crazy that I can't figure it out.

Download a SPL meter app to your smartphone and roughly measure what the dB output is from the Utopia earcups driven at the volume setting you listen at (similar to the pic I posted in the Utopia thread - you don't really need the foam covering the earcup like I have). This will get you a ballpark measurement and you can then be sure if you and those around you simply like listening really loud, or if the output is actually low for the DAVE's set volume.

 

[jlbrach]

See, this is what I don't get. I have Roon set to fixed, as well, going into my DAVE through a Curious cable link. I have my Focal Utopias connected to the DAVE's HP out. But here's the thing: my volume on the DAVE rangers from -14 to 0db.

At first you would think that my hearing is zapped, because just like you, other people are reporting -40 to -20db. However, my wife listens to my above mentioned levels, as well as my 13-year old son, and it is not too loud for them either. Moreover, I've had my ears tested professionally and I can hear from 30hz to 16kHz with ease.

I figure it has to be something in a setting somewhere, but I just can't figure it out, because I already have Roon set to fixed volume. It's becoming crazy that I can't figure it out.

seems to me the first thing to do would be to change the source and see if it differs...something is amiss for sure

 

[ecwl]

Evolvist's situation is strange since I also listen to Utopia with DAVE in the -45 to -25dB range and even though some visitors crank it up to -30 to -10dB range, I've never had anyone need -20 to 0dB with the Utopia. If Roon is playing bit-perfect at fixed volume, I suspect either Windows/OS X is not outputting in a bit-perfect manner to Chord DAVE.
 
https://kb.roonlabs.com/Audio_Setup_Basics
 
I don't use Roon so I may not really know what I'm talking about.
Do you have Roon send the signal directly to Chord DAVE or is the Roon signal sent to the System Output audio driver. Because if it is, it's possible that your Windows/OS X volume control is still on so it is attenuating Roon's bit-perfect signal to a lower volume digitally. To me, that's the only thing that makes sense.

 

[EVOLVIST]

Download a SPL meter app to your smartphone and roughly measure what the dB output is from the Utopia earcups driven at the volume setting you listen at (similar to the pic I posted in the Utopia thread - you don't really need the foam covering the earcup like I have). This will get you a ballpark measurement and you can then be sure if you and those around you simply like listening really loud, or if the output is actually low for the DAVE's set volume.

 
Okay, I did this. With the DAVE at 0db with one SPL meter I was reading in the 70 dbs and with another SPL meter in the 90dbs with the FUs. I think the 2nd SPL meter is a little more wonky because in a dead silent room it's reading in the 50db range. The first SPL meter which gave me 70 dbs at 0db on the DAVE, in a dead silent room it is reading 18-20dbs.

  Evolvist's situation is strange since I also listen to Utopia with DAVE in the -45 to -25dB range and even though some visitors crank it up to -30 to -10dB range, I've never had anyone need -20 to 0dB with the Utopia. If Roon is playing bit-perfect at fixed volume, I suspect either Windows/OS X is not outputting in a bit-perfect manner to Chord DAVE.
 
https://kb.roonlabs.com/Audio_Setup_Basics
 
I don't use Roon so I may not really know what I'm talking about.
Do you have Roon send the signal directly to Chord DAVE or is the Roon signal sent to the System Output audio driver. Because if it is, it's possible that your Windows/OS X volume control is still on so it is attenuating Roon's bit-perfect signal to a lower volume digitally. To me, that's the only thing that makes sense.

 
Yeah, I've read all of these schinitz. I've got a clear signal path with all purple in Roon.
 
 

  seems to me the first thing to do would be to change the source and see if it differs...something is amiss for sure

 
I hooked up my DAVE straight to my laptop, using JRiver, with the Cord ASIO driver and I'm still getting the same levels. I mean -40 db is very, very low if 0db is considered unity gain. But, I guess we're not measuring dbs with the DAVE like that, are we? Evidently not if 0db on the DAVE is considered to be very loud.
 
With my old headphone amp, an SPL Auditor, comfortable listening was right below or above unity gain at 0db, with a fixed signal coming from my DAC.
 
Yet, regardless of this, and if I can hear a wasp fart at 3ft away or not, something is wrong.
 
So my 13-year old son who is not used to listening to loud music. I put on some metal. "Battery" from Metallica's Master of Puppets album. He has the FUs on his head and I start off at -38db. He can hear the music obviously. Eventually he settles on -16db which sounds comfortable to him. For me the same track, where I can really feel it, is at -10db. That's a 6db difference. Of course I'm 43, so imagine my ears aren't what they used to be. Still, when he listened at -10db he felt no discomfort and said that it wasn't too loud. He was rocking out!
 
I'm thinking am I losing my hearing? Well, I can still rub my fingers by my ears and hear the swirls rub together with no problem. My son was about 20ft away from me, and he whispered things and I could hear him. So, really, I don't know What. Amplitude in a natural environment doesn't seem like a problem.
 
And btw, this is the 2nd DAVE I've had at my home, so it's not this DAVE or that one.
 
It seems I recall Rob Watts saying something like at +6db the DAVE would introduce distortion, but that it didn't matter at the level because you would be blowing out your ears anyway. I wonder if that implies good listening levels are anything below that mark, within reason. I know that +6dbs would tear my head off.
 
Lastly of note, I have almost zero dynamically compressed music in my collection. I just don't listen to it. It hurts my ears. I'm sure with some of those hyper compressed/limited albums that the volume must come way down lest it drives one's ears wonky.
 
There's only one last thing I can think of, and that's to contact the cats who sold me my mRendu + SonicOrbiter.

 

[x RELIC x]

Okay, I did this. With the DAVE at 0db with one SPL meter I was reading in the 70 dbs and with another SPL meter in the 90dbs with the FUs. I think the 2nd SPL meter is a little more wonky because in a dead silent room it's reading in the 50db range. The first SPL meter which gave me 70 dbs at 0db on the DAVE, in a dead silent room it is reading 18-20dbs.

The plot thickens! :blink:

I'm thinking am I losing my hearing? Well, I can still rub my fingers by my ears and hear the swirls rub together with no problem. My son was about 20ft away from me, and he whispered things and I could hear him. So, really, I don't know What. Amplitude in a natural environment doesn't seem like a problem.

This is a sure sign that the levels played from the Utopia aren't too loud. I do this all the time as well and it measures (again, roughly) anywhere between 70-90 dB (peak) depending on how close to the mic my fingers are and how vigorously I rub them. I do this during the loud passages to try to keep myself from much hearing risk while 'rockin' out'.

And btw, this is the 2nd DAVE I've had at my home, so it's not this DAVE or that one.

I highly doubt that two DAVE's would have the same 'issue' (forgive me if your other one didn't have the same 'issue'). The source would be the most likely culprit, but I have nothing more to add as I don't use mRendu + SonicOrbiter. Please keep us updated.

 

[ecwl]

 
I hooked up my DAVE straight to my laptop, using JRiver, with the Cord ASIO driver and I'm still getting the same levels. I mean -40 db is very, very low if 0db is considered unity gain. But, I guess we're not measuring dbs with the DAVE like that, are we? Evidently not if 0db on the DAVE is considered to be very loud.
 
So my 13-year old son who is not used to listening to loud music. I put on some metal. "Battery" from Metallica's Master of Puppets album. He has the FUs on his head and I start off at -38db. He can hear the music obviously. Eventually he settles on -16db which sounds comfortable to him. For me the same track, where I can really feel it, is at -10db. That's a 6db difference. Of course I'm 43, so imagine my ears aren't what they used to be. Still, when he listened at -10db he felt no discomfort and said that it wasn't too loud. He was rocking out!
 
Lastly of note, I have almost zero dynamically compressed music in my collection. I just don't listen to it. It hurts my ears. I'm sure with some of those hyper compressed/limited albums that the volume must come way down lest it drives one's ears wonky.
 
There's only one last thing I can think of, and that's to contact the cats who sold me my mRendu + SonicOrbiter.

 
I'm now much more suspicious that Evolvist just likes to listen to music louder than most people. I realized it's actually very hard to not get bit-perfect setup from Roon using SonicOrbiter and mRendu. The volume setting is probably also higher if the music collection only contains music with little dynamic compression because that would mean the average music volume for the tracks are probably lower to begin with. Hence, I'm thinking there's probably nothing wrong in the digital/computer setup of the system.

 

[EVOLVIST]

I'm now much more suspicious that Evolvist just likes to listen to music louder than most people. I realized it's actually very hard to not get bit-perfect setup from Roon using SonicOrbiter and mRendu. The volume setting is probably also higher if the music collection only contains music with little dynamic compression because that would mean the average music volume for the tracks are probably lower to begin with. Hence, I'm thinking there's probably nothing wrong in the digital/computer setup of the system.

You know, you might be on to something with the lack of dynamically compromised recordings in my library. I'm not a big metal listener, but even that Metallica recording was from the original 1986 CD which clocks in at an overall DR12.

I think I listen to music loud enough to where I'm not passively listening, as serious listening sessions require enough volume to really feel the music. At the same time, though, if ever the volume gets uncomfortable (I think we all know our thresholds) then I simply turn it down.

Not to be too off topic, as I still think we're with in the realm of talking about the DAVE - because I would like to hear @Rob Watts chime in - but in the FU thread I noted that with my HD800s any music I listened to with DAVE fell within a small margin of -3db to +3db for really low recordings. With the FUs, on the other hand, I find my recordings really ranging from -16db to 0db. Anything approaching the 0db range are really low recordings, like Tom Petty's first album and the 2013 Analogue Productions Doors remasters, which are also very, very low. Oddly enough, for most of my classical music, I've found will sit in around the -16db to -12db range.

That still doesn't explain, however, why my wife and 13-year old find comfort in the same range as I do. It's not like they have the hobby and must get "the feels" from the music. My wife controls her own volume and I noticed that she was right in the same pocket as me.

Plus, as I noted about the SPL meter (and I'm going to try some more with different ones) the arrow seems to point to getting an average of 80-85db out of the FUs.

So, I still see a bit of a mystery, only maybe one that's getting a bit clearer. I'm still going to get a feel from the folks on the mRendu and Roon forums.

 

[jlbrach]

   
Okay, I did this. With the DAVE at 0db with one SPL meter I was reading in the 70 dbs and with another SPL meter in the 90dbs with the FUs. I think the 2nd SPL meter is a little more wonky because in a dead silent room it's reading in the 50db range. The first SPL meter which gave me 70 dbs at 0db on the DAVE, in a dead silent room it is reading 18-20dbs.
 
Yeah, I've read all of these schinitz. I've got a clear signal path with all purple in Roon.
 
 
 
I hooked up my DAVE straight to my laptop, using JRiver, with the Cord ASIO driver and I'm still getting the same levels. I mean -40 db is very, very low if 0db is considered unity gain. But, I guess we're not measuring dbs with the DAVE like that, are we? Evidently not if 0db on the DAVE is considered to be very loud.
 
With my old headphone amp, an SPL Auditor, comfortable listening was right below or above unity gain at 0db, with a fixed signal coming from my DAC.
 
Yet, regardless of this, and if I can hear a wasp fart at 3ft away or not, something is wrong.
 
So my 13-year old son who is not used to listening to loud music. I put on some metal. "Battery" from Metallica's Master of Puppets album. He has the FUs on his head and I start off at -38db. He can hear the music obviously. Eventually he settles on -16db which sounds comfortable to him. For me the same track, where I can really feel it, is at -10db. That's a 6db difference. Of course I'm 43, so imagine my ears aren't what they used to be. Still, when he listened at -10db he felt no discomfort and said that it wasn't too loud. He was rocking out!
 
I'm thinking am I losing my hearing? Well, I can still rub my fingers by my ears and hear the swirls rub together with no problem. My son was about 20ft away from me, and he whispered things and I could hear him. So, really, I don't know What. Amplitude in a natural environment doesn't seem like a problem.
 
And btw, this is the 2nd DAVE I've had at my home, so it's not this DAVE or that one.
 
It seems I recall Rob Watts saying something like at +6db the DAVE would introduce distortion, but that it didn't matter at the level because you would be blowing out your ears anyway. I wonder if that implies good listening levels are anything below that mark, within reason. I know that +6dbs would tear my head off.
 
Lastly of note, I have almost zero dynamically compressed music in my collection. I just don't listen to it. It hurts my ears. I'm sure with some of those hyper compressed/limited albums that the volume must come way down lest it drives one's ears wonky.
 
There's only one last thing I can think of, and that's to contact the cats who sold me my mRendu + SonicOrbiter.

I listen to only FLAC out of my AK120 into my Dave with my Utopia's and honestly I do not think I have ever listened to anything beyond -20 or so....with my LCD-4's I will from time to time go as far as -3 but that is in rare instances,mostly i vary from -15 to 8.I have a variety of music and some is highly compressed garbage masterings that I will listen to at -35-40 on the Utopia and I have some old albums like PJ Harvey's early albums that are mastered incredibly quietly and even with that or others such as Richard Thompsons Amnesia or a few old jazz albums I never get much beyond -20 or maybe -18........perhaps it is the recordings you are listening to?Are they primarily Hi Rez stuff because I have been told they need higher volumes....I am very curious as to what the issue is and i do not think it is your hearing.....FWIIW the Metallica albums are mastered incredibly loud.I used to own the 800S and it was not quite as efficient as the Utopia but certainly efficient...I would never have been listening to it through my Dave at -3 to +3 so i really do believe that this is source related although I am suspicious when we are speaking about Metallica's albums because they are brutally loud masterings and thus confuse the situation even more to me....I will say this for sure...if you are listening at these volumes with the Utopia you literally would be unable to listen at all to the LCD-4's which require about 20 louder on my Dave than do the Utopia's